The AI-1 Dreadnought Project Pt.1

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  • PolkMaster1
    PolkMaster1 Posts: 847
    edited December 2010
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    It seems that I am following in Larrys and DKs footsteps. I just ordered the transformer, it should arrive by Thursday. I need to call Par-Metal for the enclosure. Gotta think about the dimensions and finish of this enclosure. I am leaning twords an alodine finish.
    Statistics show that 98% of us will die at some point in our lifetime.

    The other 2% will work for WalMart.
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  • emotiva!
    emotiva! Posts: 43
    edited November 2011
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    Hey DarqueKnight, can you guide me to the manufacturer of the box? I cant seem to find one online similar and now that i have the avil transformer I need an aluminum box to place it in! Thanks in advance
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  • DarqueKnight
    DarqueKnight Posts: 6,765
    edited November 2011
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    www.par-metal.com
    Proud and loyal citizen of the Digital Domain and Solid State Country!
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  • DarqueKnight
    DarqueKnight Posts: 6,765
    edited December 2011
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    Yes, if you are using the same size transformer that I used. My case is 4" x 12" x 12".
    Proud and loyal citizen of the Digital Domain and Solid State Country!
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  • PolkMaster1
    PolkMaster1 Posts: 847
    edited January 2012
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    I am still waiting for Larry to build me a case. :cheesygrin: I guess this means I did not make the 2011 deadline on making the dreadnaught case. This could make a 2012 New Years resolution.

    My other new years resolutions are to complete a never-ending speaker project and amp project so that I will not have to go into them in 2013.
    Statistics show that 98% of us will die at some point in our lifetime.

    The other 2% will work for WalMart.
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  • nspindel
    nspindel Posts: 5,343
    edited January 2012
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    Get in line dude. Before he's making you a dreadnaught case he's making me a pair of CRS+ stands!
    Good music, a good source, and good power can make SDA's sing. Tubes make them dance.
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  • PolkMaster1
    PolkMaster1 Posts: 847
    edited January 2012
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    Just to clarify - Larry is not making cases as far as I know. I was joking. If he were making cases, I would not hesitate to have purchased them from him. I have purchased his rings and brackets for my 1.2TL with complete satisfaction. All that remains is to install the brackets into the other 1.2TL. This will be done in 2012.
    Statistics show that 98% of us will die at some point in our lifetime.

    The other 2% will work for WalMart.
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  • PolkMaster1
    PolkMaster1 Posts: 847
    edited January 2012
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    Lasareath wrote: »
    I had no idea that Larry was making Dreadnaught cases. The place where Raife got his is in NJ and they offer bulk discounts. Maybe we should order 100?

    Maybe Avel Linberg would give us discounts if we order 100 transformers.

    I plan to purchase the case from Par-Metal. If others are interested, I would be interested in purchasing a case using a bulk discount.

    Too bad I already purchased the transformer in 2010. Too many projects. Too little time. I still have an A/D converter to place in a case.
    Statistics show that 98% of us will die at some point in our lifetime.

    The other 2% will work for WalMart.
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  • nspindel
    nspindel Posts: 5,343
    edited January 2012
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    I'd be in for one.
    Good music, a good source, and good power can make SDA's sing. Tubes make them dance.
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  • nspindel
    nspindel Posts: 5,343
    edited January 2012
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    Sorry should have been more clear. I already have the transformer. I'd be in for a case.
    Good music, a good source, and good power can make SDA's sing. Tubes make them dance.
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  • headrott
    headrott Posts: 5,496
    edited January 2012
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    I'd guess that we would not make 100 cases for 100 AI-1's, but maybe people will use the case for other things as well. I'd be in for one case. My custom made case works OK, but I'd like one a little more sturdy. Don't need a transformer though, I have one.

    Greg
    Relayer-Big-O-Poster.jpg
    Taken from a recent Audioholics reply regarding "Club Polk" and Polk speakers:
    "I'm yet to hear a Polk speaker that merits more than a sentence and 60 seconds discussion." :\
    My response is: If you need 60 seconds to respond in one sentence, you probably should't be evaluating Polk speakers.....

    "Green leaves reveal the heart spoken Khatru"- Jon Anderson

    "Have A Little Faith! And Everything You'll Face, Will Jump From Out Right On Into Place! Yeah! Take A Little Time! And Everything You'll Find, Will Move From Gloom Right On Into Shine!"- Arthur Lee
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  • DarqueKnight
    DarqueKnight Posts: 6,765
    edited January 2012
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    Lasareath wrote: »
    Hopefully tomorrow these people get back to me and I'll find out if there is any discount if we buy 10 units. If so I'll make a new thread and see if anybody wants to pitch in.

    There is a link on their website to their current price list which lists the prices for volume orders for each case.
    Proud and loyal citizen of the Digital Domain and Solid State Country!
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  • PolkMaster1
    PolkMaster1 Posts: 847
    edited January 2012
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    I would be in for a case. I will be using Vampire or Cardas CCGR Binding Posts, so I would need cutouts on the case to accomidate for it. DarqueKnight - good point on the shipping. Sal - if you worked out the cost on what it would be for the case + shipping - assuming you were to receive the bulk order, what would you estimate the total cost would be?

    Now, if Larry had some time, I am sure there would be enough interest in this forum for us to buy cases from him. I have no reservations on spending my money on his work!!!

    PM1
    Statistics show that 98% of us will die at some point in our lifetime.

    The other 2% will work for WalMart.
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  • DarqueKnight
    DarqueKnight Posts: 6,765
    edited January 2012
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    Lasareath wrote: »


    20-12124A (1) $57.00 each (6 to 19) $51.00 each (20 to 49) $45.90 each (50 and up) $41.30 each 12W x 12D x 4H


    Now I need bulk prices from Avel Linberg
    Lasareath wrote: »
    I'm a little confused.


    I want a case that is all black but on their website they state that:

    "Painted whole case include inside (no EMI shield)"

    And

    "Gold/Clear alodine finish for EMI shield"

    Does this mean that only the Gold or Clear alodine finish offer EMI shielding?


    Can somebody please explain this?

    The prices and description you listed above are for the 20-12124A (A is for alodine).

    If you review our PM conversation, you will see that I mentioned that the case I used was the 20-12124B (B is for black). Note that the 20-12124B costs substantially more than the 20-12124A.

    MODEL 20-12124B: 82.00 (1 to 5), 73.70 (6 to 19), 66.30 (20 to 49), 59.70 (50 up)

    EMI/RFI shielding is not listed as a feature of the 20-12124B. I can't imagine that they would not add this feature for you as an extra cost option, since they do completely custom cases.
    Proud and loyal citizen of the Digital Domain and Solid State Country!
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  • nspindel
    nspindel Posts: 5,343
    edited January 2012
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    Ok, I am a bit confused by the AI-1. A pin-blade SDA interface is only one conductor, it's only the pin that is live. When I modded my SDA's, I used a single Cardas binding post for the SDA connection, and use a custom cable that just connects the single binding post on the left and right speaker. But the AI-1 looks like it needs two connections on each speaker. Where does the second connection attach to?
    Good music, a good source, and good power can make SDA's sing. Tubes make them dance.
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  • nspindel
    nspindel Posts: 5,343
    edited January 2012
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    But the stock AI-1 from Polk is a pin-blade connection. So how did that work? I'm trying to remember the pin-blade connection before I modded my speakers. Was the blade shorted to the negative binding post?
    Good music, a good source, and good power can make SDA's sing. Tubes make them dance.
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  • Schurkey
    Schurkey Posts: 2,130
    edited January 2012
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    nspindel wrote: »
    But the stock AI-1 from Polk is a pin-blade connection. So how did that work? I'm trying to remember the pin-blade connection before I modded my speakers. Was the blade shorted to the negative binding post?
    When the plain cable is used, only one conductor is needed. Current and voltage transfer DIRECTLY from speaker to speaker.

    When the AI-1 is used, current and voltage transfer through the transformer; the windings of the transformer each need a path to ground--which is the - binding post. So the AI-1 uses BOTH pin and blade while the plain cable doesn't.
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  • nspindel
    nspindel Posts: 5,343
    edited January 2012
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    Right, but in that case for the original Polk AI-1 to have worked, without connecting a conductor directly to the negative binding post, then internally the blade must have been shorted to the negative inside the cabinet I'm assuming?
    Good music, a good source, and good power can make SDA's sing. Tubes make them dance.
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  • inspiredsports
    inspiredsports Posts: 5,502
    edited January 2012
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    You need to check the serial numbers of your speakers (SDA 2B's) or look inside to know it the blade is attached to the tweeter negative so the AI-1 works.

    1987 Blade/Blade 2B's and 1987/1988 Pin/Blade 2B's can easily be grounded so the AI-1 works. 1989 Pin/Blade 2B's came with the blade grounded right from the factory.

    Post #10 here gives the serial numbers of 2B's that don't need any modification . . . http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?44518-DIY-A1-I-questions
    VTL ST50 w/mods / RCA6L6GC / TlfnknECC801S
    Conrad Johnson PV-5 w/mods
    TT Conrad Johnson Sonographe SG3 Oak / Sumiko LMT / Grado Woodbody Platinum / Sumiko PIB2 / The Clamp
    Musical Fidelity A1 CDPro/ Bada DD-22 Tube CDP / Conrad Johnson SD-22 CDP
    Tuners w/mods Kenwood KT5020 / Fisher KM60
    MF x-DAC V8, HAInfo NG27
    Herbies Ti-9 / Vibrapods / MIT Shotgun AC1 IEC's / MIT Shotgun 2 IC's / MIT Shotgun 2 Speaker Cables
    PS Audio Cryo / PowerPort Premium Outlets / Exact Power EP15A Conditioner
    Walnut SDA 2B TL /Oak SDA SRS II TL (Sonicaps/Mills/Cardas/Custom SDA ICs / Dynamat Extreme / Larry's Rings/ FSB-2 Spikes
    NAD SS rigs w/mods
    GIK panels
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  • nspindel
    nspindel Posts: 5,343
    edited January 2012
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    I've got 1C's, and I'll be doing up a set of CRS+'s soon enough.
    Good music, a good source, and good power can make SDA's sing. Tubes make them dance.
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  • nspindel
    nspindel Posts: 5,343
    edited January 2012
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    Long story short, inside the cabinet if the blade terminal is shorted to the negative binding post, it's AI-1 compatible, true?
    Good music, a good source, and good power can make SDA's sing. Tubes make them dance.
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  • inspiredsports
    inspiredsports Posts: 5,502
    edited January 2012
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    inspiredsports wrote: »
    You need to check the serial numbers of your speakers (SDA 2B's) or look inside to know it the blade is attached to the tweeter negative so the AI-1 works.

    1987 Blade/Blade 2B's and 1987/1988 Pin/Blade 2B's can easily be grounded so the AI-1 works. 1989 Pin/Blade 2B's came with the blade grounded right from the factory.

    Post #10 here gives the serial numbers of 2B's that don't need any modification . . . http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?44518-DIY-A1-I-questions

    Post #17 here shows an "external" modification for an AI-1 you don't want to go inside of ungrouded large blade 2B cabinets and connect the large blade connection to ground . . . http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?75554-A1-Interconnect-for-SDA-2B&p=971932
    VTL ST50 w/mods / RCA6L6GC / TlfnknECC801S
    Conrad Johnson PV-5 w/mods
    TT Conrad Johnson Sonographe SG3 Oak / Sumiko LMT / Grado Woodbody Platinum / Sumiko PIB2 / The Clamp
    Musical Fidelity A1 CDPro/ Bada DD-22 Tube CDP / Conrad Johnson SD-22 CDP
    Tuners w/mods Kenwood KT5020 / Fisher KM60
    MF x-DAC V8, HAInfo NG27
    Herbies Ti-9 / Vibrapods / MIT Shotgun AC1 IEC's / MIT Shotgun 2 IC's / MIT Shotgun 2 Speaker Cables
    PS Audio Cryo / PowerPort Premium Outlets / Exact Power EP15A Conditioner
    Walnut SDA 2B TL /Oak SDA SRS II TL (Sonicaps/Mills/Cardas/Custom SDA ICs / Dynamat Extreme / Larry's Rings/ FSB-2 Spikes
    NAD SS rigs w/mods
    GIK panels
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  • inspiredsports
    inspiredsports Posts: 5,502
    edited January 2012
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    To be clear, it is the WIDE blade on SDA-2B blade/blade models (and of course wide is the only blade on pin/blade models) that is the ground leg.

    SDA-2B serial numbers BELOW 14115 for the LEFT channel, and BELOW 14124 for the RIGHT channel shipped from the factory with the blade NOT CONNECTED to ground.

    You need to manually connect the wide blade to ground for the SDA drivers to be energized with an AI-1 in place in those lower serial number cabinets.

    Also noteworthy is that factory polyswitches in the lower serial numbers were RDE050A .5 ohm, and then Polk switched to RDE090A .22 ohm polyswitches in the models where the blade was grounded. Coincidence or important? I don't know, but my belief is the ground leg of the interconnect was being accounted for.
    VTL ST50 w/mods / RCA6L6GC / TlfnknECC801S
    Conrad Johnson PV-5 w/mods
    TT Conrad Johnson Sonographe SG3 Oak / Sumiko LMT / Grado Woodbody Platinum / Sumiko PIB2 / The Clamp
    Musical Fidelity A1 CDPro/ Bada DD-22 Tube CDP / Conrad Johnson SD-22 CDP
    Tuners w/mods Kenwood KT5020 / Fisher KM60
    MF x-DAC V8, HAInfo NG27
    Herbies Ti-9 / Vibrapods / MIT Shotgun AC1 IEC's / MIT Shotgun 2 IC's / MIT Shotgun 2 Speaker Cables
    PS Audio Cryo / PowerPort Premium Outlets / Exact Power EP15A Conditioner
    Walnut SDA 2B TL /Oak SDA SRS II TL (Sonicaps/Mills/Cardas/Custom SDA ICs / Dynamat Extreme / Larry's Rings/ FSB-2 Spikes
    NAD SS rigs w/mods
    GIK panels
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  • Malbec
    Malbec Posts: 558
    edited January 2012
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    Attachment not found.
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  • nspindel
    nspindel Posts: 5,343
    edited January 2012
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    Nice! Thanks.
    Good music, a good source, and good power can make SDA's sing. Tubes make them dance.
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  • nspindel
    nspindel Posts: 5,343
    edited January 2012
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    Ok, serial numbers verified on the 1C's and CRS+'s, I'm all set. Thanks for posting that.

    FYI, note of interest - When I get around to putting this together, I'm actually going to be using this with my Krell, which is a common ground amp. DK and I messaged about this quite a while back, and he seemed to thing that using the AI-1 could be beneficial even with a common ground amp. We'll see...
    Good music, a good source, and good power can make SDA's sing. Tubes make them dance.
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  • RickTfromAZ
    RickTfromAZ Posts: 122
    edited January 2012
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    I ordered my enclosure from par-metal on 12/21. It was just shipped out yesterday. Two weeks exactly.
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  • drumminman
    drumminman Posts: 3,396
    edited January 2012
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    nspindel wrote: »
    Ok, serial numbers verified on the 1C's and CRS+'s, I'm all set. Thanks for posting that.

    FYI, note of interest - When I get around to putting this together, I'm actually going to be using this with my Krell, which is a common ground amp. DK and I messaged about this quite a while back, and he seemed to thing that using the AI-1 could be beneficial even with a common ground amp. We'll see...

    I've thought about doing this too w/ my common ground amp. Interested in your observations when you get it finished and installed.
    "Science is suppose to explain observations not dismiss them as impossible" - Norm on AA; 2.3TL's w/sonicaps/mills/jantzen inductors, Gimpod's boards, Lg Solen SDA inductors, RD-0198's, MW's dynamatted, Armaflex speaker gaskets, H-nuts, brass spikes, Cardas CCGR BP's, upgraded IC Cable, Black Hole Damping Sheet strips, interior of cabinets sealed with Loctite Power Grab, AI-1 interface with 1000VA A-L transformer
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  • headrott
    headrott Posts: 5,496
    edited January 2012
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    drumminman wrote: »
    I've thought about doing this too w/ my common ground amp. Interested in your observations when you get it finished and installed.

    Technically my Aragon 8008bb is common ground, but the impedence is about 20.5 ohms and is so high on the binding posts that it required me to use an AI-1. Otherwise I get the Aragon goes in and out of protection mode. Not exactly the same as using it with a common ground amp that does not have this problem, but I can say the AI-1 sounded infinitely better than strapping the negative binding posts. The soundstage, tone and even (by ear) dB level increased by using the AI-1 rather than strapping the amp.

    Greg
    Relayer-Big-O-Poster.jpg
    Taken from a recent Audioholics reply regarding "Club Polk" and Polk speakers:
    "I'm yet to hear a Polk speaker that merits more than a sentence and 60 seconds discussion." :\
    My response is: If you need 60 seconds to respond in one sentence, you probably should't be evaluating Polk speakers.....

    "Green leaves reveal the heart spoken Khatru"- Jon Anderson

    "Have A Little Faith! And Everything You'll Face, Will Jump From Out Right On Into Place! Yeah! Take A Little Time! And Everything You'll Find, Will Move From Gloom Right On Into Shine!"- Arthur Lee
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  • Schurkey
    Schurkey Posts: 2,130
    edited January 2012
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    headrott wrote: »
    Technically my Aragon 8008bb is common ground, but the impedence is about 20.5 ohms and is so high on the binding posts that it required me to use an AI-1. Otherwise I get the Aragon goes in and out of protection mode. Not exactly the same as using it with a common ground amp that does not have this problem, but I can say the AI-1 sounded infinitely better than strapping the negative binding posts. The soundstage, tone and even (by ear) dB level increased by using the AI-1 rather than strapping the amp.

    Greg
    I'm jealous. I can't use the AI-1 with my 1Bs, so I've jumpered my 8008BB...but then I never had it go into protection mode without the jumper, either. Just sounded terrible (distorted in the midrange) at any volume level--but no popping, shut-down, stray hums, etc.

    If it sounds better with the AI-1 rather than a jumper wire...I don't understand why. I'm very curious.
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