Why Are You Mad At Cables You Can't Afford?

renowilliams · April 2011

I think there will always be people who will critisize others for what they believe are foolish purchases. Those people will justify there condemnation based on their socioeconomic status and whatever other other reasons they can come up with. On the other side of the coin, there are people who make purchases and justify what they buy for their reasons.

As far as I'm concerned I believe in live and let live.....nuff said

cnh · April 2011

There are a lot of cables out there in a lot of price ranges--so there is something for everyone. As far as cables that most of us can't afford...of course we'd listen to them and decide...it's part of the experience/hobby!

Some are probably snake-oil and others legitimate. It's naive to think that ALL expensive cables are equal because of the price-tag and that there are no charlatans out there. On the other hand there is a lot of experience here with certain premium brands that verifies the manufacturers' claims. And that is good enough for me whether or not I'll 'ever' be able to afford such fare. (And just between us--I'll probably never have enough of a budget for those).

cnh

jbooker82 · April 2011

Same reason why some one would rather tear down some one else for a good paying job or great benifits vs. doing somehting to make their own job / life better.

inspiredsports · April 2011

DON73 wrote: »

. . . buy $15,000 cables if you want to but look me in the eye and tell me you can hear the difference between this and say a set of $100 cables and I'll call BS and challenge you to prove it . . .

If I recall correctly, the burden of proof in this country is on the "prosecutor".

Don't be hatin' so much, Don.

DMara · April 2011

DarqueKnight wrote: »

From time to time in my audio readings I come across bitter, vitriolic, rantings against expensive audio cables from people who can't possibly afford them in 10 of their lifetimes.

To me, your next statement actually tells one of the main reasons there's always been argument between the two sides:

DarqueKnight wrote: »

Although a $40,000 cable may not offer any performance benefits over a $1,000 cable, the fit, finish and materials will be of such a calibre as to earn a place next to the buyer's $180,000 loudspeakers, $80,000 CD player, $100,000 monoblock amps, $30,000 preamp, and $160,000 turntable. Consider that a $220,000 Rolex Masterpiece watch does not tell time any better than my $100 Casio G-Shock. However, the $220,000 Rolex might be just the accessory to go with the rich guy's $50,000 Kiton K-50 suit and $250,000 customized Benz.

One side compares the red quality, while the other side applauds the blue quality, and it starts out in a very civilized manner. However the "bitter, vitriolic rantings" arise from the personal attacks, not just from one side, but from both. One guy begins to call the other side "idiots," and of course you will see the informative argument turns into a pile of ****. In fact, in this very thread, it has begun to happen: both sides has begun to call each other "idiots."

All 4 questions you raise presents the common answer: because it's a choice. Visit CP's Clubhouse & you'll see all kinds of choice: some hate cats, others don't like dogs, blah blah blah. And thankfully that makes the world more interesting to live in, a world of human beings, not robots.

DarqueKnight wrote: »

1. Why is it considered heroic to buy a $500,000 Lamborghini, yet considered insanity to buy a $40,000 cable...if one can comfortably afford it?

Who are you talking about?
Some might consider both to be heroic.
Some might consider both to be idiotic.
Some might consider one of them is heroic while the other is idiotic.
Some might consider one of them is heroic while the other is neither heroic or idiotic.
Some might consider one of them is idiotic while the other is neither heroic or idiotic.
Some might consider neither to be heroic or idiotic.
Some might not even think about any of them at all.
So this question targets such a limited range of candidates :biggrin:

DarqueKnight wrote: »

2. Why do some people worry about what other people do with their money?
...
3. Why do some people get angry about the price of a luxury audio item that is way out of their financial means?

Maybe because his wife kicked him out to the sofa the day before due to him spending too much on a speaker upgrade :biggrin: Maybe because he wanted to be a politician :biggrin: Maybe because the guys on the other side of the argument called him names & made him mad in the past, therefore he decided to join the current war of words to "get even." :biggrin:

DarqueKnight wrote: »

4. Is this a case of "Those who irrationally rail against something or someone that is no threat to them, actually desire (or desire to be like) the thing or person they are railing against"?

Maybe for some, but not for all; your question only points to a subset of one side. Not only that, the "irrational" version actually exists in both sides, not just one side. In our CP or any other AV forums, to me, most of the arguments about this brand vs. that brand of AV equipments went into personal attack mode too often. That might be due to the fact,, as one of the main reasons, that there weren't a lot of quality experience / respected voices from both sides of the argument to guide the threads while there were plenty more groupie dudes entering the scene just to look down on some others.

Flash21 · April 2011

Truthfully, I've never even listened to cables I can't afford. Why taunt myself with something I cannot have? I don't go to strip clubs anymore either.

Face · April 2011

DON73 wrote: »

Buy $15,000 cables if you want to but look me in the eye and tell me you can hear the difference between this and say a set of $100 cables and I'll call BS and challenge you to prove it. Cable lovers are far more likely to bash those of us who believe a set of $50 cables are overpriced. This thread is intended to do just that. Super wealthy people do foolish things....so what. Can anyone here say that $50,000 cables are a value & worth the cost? I don't GARA what cables you buy but stop calling me a "naysayer"and I'll refrain from calling you an idiot.

Many also say B&W speakers are overpriced, and I agree. To each their own.

jinjuku · April 2011

TOOLFORLIFEFAN wrote: »

Haters will hate, The same reason the hater will key your Lambo (or other nice car) because you park at the far end of the lot to keep it from getting dinged..

I would believe the haters would key the lambo because they parked it horizontally across two parking spaces close to the store:biggrin:

Keying it because you parked in in timbuktu? That's just being a di*k.

olilugo · April 2011

I have a possible solution for everyone... instead of being soo trigger happy with your comments, perhaps everyone should ask themselves Do I add value to the thread, if not; I will say restrain your need to always say something and just move forward to the next thread.
I have been around this forum, for a few years now and I only have less than 400 posts. I think if I would to just blur out every time someone says something that does not agree with me I will probably be in the thousands of responds, instead I only really respond when I feel I can add value to this hobby. Granted it might become a more doll forum, but I will argue that it will be a more informative forum.
I will be very happy if everyone will stop making one liners, and calling people names and so on… nothing like that improves the hobby. If you have something to say back it up by doing your own testing and say been there here was my experience with it.
I happen to be around long enough to recognize Darqueknight as someone that has spent considerable time testing and evaluating cables of many sorts, power, speaker, interconnects and so on. I think the man deserves credit for his contribution. That said I also respect people that have purchased other components and yes including cables which have not provided that extra step towards excellence and they should also be heard as they have something to contribute to the learning process. At the end and most important to me is if I don’t agree I mentally note the experience and move on. I am not quick to blast a response mainly because I myself have not done the homework, and yes quoting someone else does not count, if you don’t do your own testing then you just don’t know what you are talking about and therefore should restrain from making comments that will derail a thread someone else might find a good read.

kevhed72 · April 2011

Funny how some people get more worked up over cables than the actual music...

inspiredsports · April 2011

jinjuku wrote: »

I would believe the haters would key the lambo because they parked it horizontally across two parking spaces close to the store:biggrin:

Keying it because you parked in in timbuktu? That's just being a di*k.

Lambo owners don't go to "the store" (unless it's on Rodeo where it's highly unlikely they'll get keyed unless it's by a jilted lover, etc.).

Lambo owners send their minions to "the store".

Poee7R · April 2011

I would love to be able to afford $40k cables, so I can stick my tongue out and say "nany nany" to the folks that have no faith.

Then use them to connect a Curtis Mathis cd player to an awesome Soundesign all in one tape deck/record player. Just cause it would be my money, and make so many people all pissy.

I think Ill buy a lottery ticket today. :biggrin:

Dave

steveinaz · April 2011

I get mad anytime someone has something cooler than my stuff.

xj4094dg · April 2011

I'm not.

There are no cables I can't afford, but if there were, I would not be mad at them.

madmax · April 2011

aboroth00 wrote: »

The same reason people bag on monster? But Monster is affordable...

Monster cables are the only ones I've tried which actually cause sound degregation over stock $1 cables like you get with cheap components.

Hawkeye · April 2011

DON73 wrote: »

Buy $15,000 cables if you want to but look me in the eye and tell me you can hear the difference between this and say a set of $100 cables and I'll call BS and challenge you to prove it. Cable lovers are far more likely to bash those of us who believe a set of $50 cables are overpriced. This thread is intended to do just that. Super wealthy people do foolish things....so what. Can anyone here say that $50,000 cables are a value & worth the cost? I don't GARA what cables you buy but stop calling me a "naysayer"and I'll refrain from calling you an idiot.

15K would be a reasonable amount of money for a very high end system. If you don't subscribe to that, its fine with me. I did try a comparison between about $300 and 3K and the results were repeatable in my system. http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?t=77291

As mentioned above, some people are casual listeners. Slam some beers and listen to Ted Nugent. (which I do on ocassion) But most of the time I do intense, critical listening stone cold sober. I listen for the detail and ambience in the music. I'm not a golden ear, afterall, I've been a jet engine mechanic for 30 years and my hearing is suspect! But I know what I hear and what I don't.

I do find it a bit amusing when somebody who has not had the pleasure of listening to a higher end system call me a snob or I'm wasting my money on an item that brings me personal pleasure.

Bashing someone for spending $50 on cables is just as bad as bashing someone who spent $500.

Gordon

DMara · April 2011

xj4094dg wrote: »

I'm not.

There are no cables I can't afford, but if there were, I would not be mad at them.

You're too busy getting mad at them "non-native" j/k

Don't be mad at me :biggrin:

Tony M · April 2011

Do you guys remember that photo of the McIntosh and I think other Manu. museum collection of Amps in sweeden I think?

The curators had that 1.00 or 3.00 interconnect cable laid beside a set-up.I couldn't believe it and it might have been added or photo-croped but it would be very non-condusive to the amps designs I would guess.

I've heard a sound difference with cables and stand on the side they make a difference.:cool:
I will never buy $$$$$ cables but I'm not mad or jeleous. It is what it is. I get hand me downs and happy about that.

F1nut · April 2011

"I've always been mad, I know I've been mad, like the most of us are. It's very hard to explain why you're mad, even if you're not mad." - PF

DarqueKnight · April 2011

DON73 wrote: »

Buy $15,000 cables if you want to but look me in the eye and tell me you can hear the difference between this and say a set of $100 cables and I'll call BS and challenge you to prove it.

inspiredsports wrote: »

If I recall correctly, the burden of proof in this country is on the "prosecutor".

You do recall correctly sir.

DON73 wrote: »

Cable lovers are far more likely to bash those of us who believe a set of $50 cables are overpriced. This thread is intended to do just that.

No it isn't. I should know since I started the tread. I guess now you want "proof" that I didn't start the tread to bash inexpensive cable owners.:rolleyes:

Well, since naysayers are so hellbent on obtaining "proof", the best proof I can offer that I did not start this thread to bash inexpensive cable owners is that I own, and use, inexpensive cables. Among the five rigs I run between home and the office, four of the five use inexpensive cables from Monster Cable, Signal Cable and Audio Research.

The cables in the foreground of the picture below are the first "audio grade" cables I purchased in 1987 and 1988. They are Monster Cable Interlink 400. I still use them for demo purposes, in test rigs, and in temporary rigs that I set up for house guests. The box at the rear is for the cables I currently use in my two channel system, AudioQuest Sky XLR. The Monster IC's retailed for $35 in 1987 for a 1m pair ($70 in 2011 dollars). The Skys retail for $2600 for a 1m pair.

I wanted to place a pair of the Skys in the background, but they politely declined as they were busy carrying music signals. They also reminded that I have already posted several pictures of them on the forum. As you can see from the picture below, they even declined to be featured prominently on their own box.

Then (foreground) and now: Monster Cable Interlink 400 and AudioQuest SKY XLR.

Close up of Monster Cable Interlink 400 interconnects. Note how the formerly white directional arrow tags have yellowed with age.

I still have almost all of the interconnect and speaker cables I purchased during the last 24 years. The only IC cables sold were AudioQuest Niagara XLR and AudioQuest Sky Gen 1 XLR. The only speaker cables sold were AudioQuest Volcano. I imposed a "no hoarding" rule in 2006 where I cannot keep an audio item if there is no current or expected use for it. I had no expectation of setting up a second system where cables of this quality would be required so they had to go.

One of the fun things I like to do with curious house guests is to take them through my IC and speaker cable progression. However, when doing the cable progression, I don't start with Monster. I start with what I started out with in college: the stock IC's that come with audio equipment and the zip cord speaker cable that used to be given away by audio dealers with the purchase of a pair of speakers.

So you see, my audio journey has not been one of snobbish high end indulgence. Rather it has been a slow, steady progression from basic inexpensive audio equipment, as a college student, to where I am now 24 years later.

DarqueKnight · April 2011

cokewithvanilla wrote: »

Here at CP, we seem to have a set of standards of what products we are allowed to dismiss as 'snake oil' or simply something that doesn't work. Cables are not one of these things.

You seem to have a persecution complex. Think a little deeper, if you can, and read a little more, if your attention span holds up, and the error of this statement will become vividly apparent.

cokewithvanilla wrote: »

You can't simply say that you tried all these cables and believe that there is no difference without someone telling you that you weren't listening right, there are other problems with your system, or you need to try more cables.

It is unfortunate that you cannot comprehend that there is a difference between "trying something" and "trying something properly". Excuse us for trying to help you improve your audio enjoyment.

cokewithvanilla wrote: »

When people mention double blind ABX testing, which is considered sufficient evidence in other areas, they are told that the tests are flawed.... this type of logic just wouldn't float with certain products.. .but with cables, it seems to work.

Wow. There have been numerous discussions about ABX testing for stereo on this forum. Perhaps you missed them. Nevertheless, common sense should inform that just because a particular test works in one area of science, it does not mean it is appropriate for all areas of science as the ABX cultists would have us believe.

Basically, the argument against ABX testing for stereophonic audio is that the ABX test is not designed for multi-dimensional sensory stimuli. Since a stereophonic sound field consists of complex, multi-dimensional sensory stimuli, the ABX test is not a good evaluative tool in this instance. This is something you can verify in any number of textbooks. ABX testing is suitable for some types of audio.

Does the idea of using evaluative tools appropriate to a particular situation seem reasonable to you or do you subscribe to a "one test fits all" mentality?

The ABX test is popular among audio naysayers because its lack of sensitivity for multi-dimensional sensory stimuli supports the idea that there are mostly no differences between audio components within certain categories (e.g. amps, cables, source components).

pitdogg2 · April 2011

I too have used the Monster interlink 400 only because they were the best cables i could find in my city before i got a credit card and found the internet. They worked good except for the Monster grip of death which pulled off an RCA jack twice. No matter how easy I tried they were just too hard to get off. My first set of "GOOD" cables came from the independent audio store owner who gave me some of the first Audioquest cables(Topaz)60.00 in 1990. I went in and bought My Carver C16 pre TFM25 and a Sony X33ES cd player still have those to this day. Sadly he went out of business in the late 90's. I've tried different cables within my budget so lets see I went from Stock to Audioquest,Monster,Dayton,Beldon and a few others. I even tried making my own when i got my Denon 2900 I used Beldon cable and Canare RCA's and I really like them and still have them only reason i stopped using the Beldon's was I moved to a Denon 3910 and use the Denon-link from my 3805. I envy folks that can afford the MEGA-DOLLAR cables because most of the time that technology trickles down to the cables i can afford. If anybody cares I just moved back to Audioquest and the Diamondback interconnects that sound good and fit just right. Not to tight and not to loose.

megasat16 · April 2011

Instead of 40K cables, I opt to buy 20K equalizer.

They all works the same. :eek:

inspiredsports · April 2011

megasat16 wrote: »

Instead of 40K cables, I opt to buy 20K equalizer.

They all works the same. :eek:

Wouldn't you need TWO 20K equalizers ??? :biggrin:

EndersShadow · April 2011

I just drink until the music sounds better.... doesn't cost me nearly that much :eek:

inspiredsports · April 2011

EndersShadow wrote: »

I just drink until the music sounds better.... doesn't cost me nearly that much :eek:

Priced a liver on the black market lately ?? :biggrin:

TECHNOKID · April 2011

Bashing someone for spending $50 (or calling the person or thread stupid because they do not agree)) on cables is just as bad as bashing someone who spent $500.

Agreed with you as you can see but with added backing notes.

This seems to be a two way street here at CP (and this thread proves cable debates to be such an attraction for many (regardless of their side), people being defensive when some opt to use higher end cables and being defensive when someone else opt to use ordinary/lower end cables. Personally, I try to stay away from cable debates (as I've found my self caught in the middle of the fire when I first joined CP). Lately, I did jump in when one Polkie decided to call one's thread "stupid" because he was debating cost (not ranting against higher versus lower end). He pointed out from his own experienced that he paid 4 times less for his cables than the actual MSRPs of the cable and got blasted for his thread. IMO, the thread was valid but a few yea-sayers got involved in bashing the thread! So, the OP question can be turned around in such a way to both camps; "Why are you mad at people that choose and believe in different cables than what you choose to and believe?"

Why does not everyone agree to disagree? Why does not everyone respect others choices and beliefs? Can anyone here claim to be a "know it all" in this matter? Why is it acceptable for most to bash/question Mon$ter, Bo$e but not Audioque$t or MIT cable$? Too each one their own, right?

Furthermore, Polk NEVER claimed to be high end and most of us will ferociously speak for our beloved speaker company and many of us will actually CALL the Polk bashers SNOBS? Since Polk NEVER EVER claimed their speakers to be high end, can someone explain to me the obsession of using HIGH END cables with Polk speakers?

Isn't it a fact that what goes in goes out? What is the sense of having/using cables costing thousands with good but NO HIGH END speakers? Just for a few potential (I say potential since I do not yet experience with them and I simply rely on the comments of the majority on here) exceptions (the old SDA line, the Lsi and LsiM) let's face it while Polk speakers are of great value, they are NOT high end and are a good alternative to cheap speakers at good price point. Let's face it, most consumer of such product are NOT in the market for high end products, right?

I realize some may own high end speakers on here but fact is this is not exactly what the bulk of Polk consumer is all about (so maybe that is where the problem lies???)....

aboroth00 · April 2011

Keiko wrote: »

I bagged on Monster because of their business ethics. As far as being affordable, you can still do better for the money.

You can make the same argument toward a company who charges thousands for a speaker cable which doesn't cost that much to make.

I'm not trying to justify their cost or argue against it but I'm giving my answer to why people would be mad at speaker cables, people who buy them, or the speaker cable company. Because why are people mad at Monster? Because they make overpriced cables.

TECHNOKID · April 2011

megasat16 wrote: »

Instead of 40K cables, I opt to buy 20K equalizer.

They all works the same. :eek:

Heh, 20K cables should take less room than equalizers would. That should matter for something unless your listening area has limited space.

Some might even call you stupid for using EQ instead of HE cables.

Doesn't MIT cables have builted in virtual EQs anyway?

:cool:

F1nut · April 2011

Doesn't MIT cables have builted in virtual EQs anyway?

No, they don't. It's about timing.

Why Are You Mad At Cables You Can't Afford?

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