Why Are You Mad At Cables You Can't Afford?

VR3

rubin wrote: »

I bought my svs subs via internet (that's their way). B&M stores could NOT match the price/performance svs offers.

That is not relevant to this discussion. Completely different business model.

rubin

Vr3MxStyler2k3 wrote: »

That is not relevant to this discussion. Completely different business model.

Fact is, remove the "middle man" along with employee payroll is a smart way of doing business.

cstmar01

cokewithvanilla wrote: »

Also, consider the options for Open Source. Imagine an open source company that builds audio gear... designed by the masses, all in the open, everyone knows the costs and this and that... the company builds the products with low profit margin, but low R&D and total cost because it was built by the community.. ect.... that would be real cool... and again, it probably wouldn't take away business from the likes of Revel

I fail to see how your company will stay in business as please tell me what price you can get all the great builders and minds alike to put together a quality product for cheap. As cheap to one person can be 500 and to another 4000. :rolleyes:

but of course we would then have to sell at internet prices so regardless of how much went into it we'll have to sell it for 50% less because the net told us to.

inspiredsports

rubin wrote: »

Fact is, remove the "middle man" along with employee payroll is a smart way of doing business.

Disintermediation has been a hot topic for a long time. It can be good for the consumer in terms of bringing lower prices to the marketplace, but unfortunately, most consumer's jobs/incomes are derived from their being "middle men" too.

Toolfan66

My Cable is Bigger then your Cable!!!!

VR3

rubin wrote: »

Fact is, remove the "middle man" along with employee payroll is a smart way of doing business.

Last time I checked SVS is not "cheap" anymore. And they have enough inside men to pay to compare them to a middle man.

When an internet direct business gets THAT size and their overhead is several facilities, large quantity - the price will be similar. And as of right now it is slowly becoming that way.

To top it off - it is no longer made in America.

Either way -- you remove the "middle man" and the internet companies take over - eventually one company trying to supply ALL OF THE PEOPLE that hundreds, thousands of dealers supplied - that "middle man" will be absorbed into the manufactures as staff.

Not to mention most manufactures out there are not set up for online or direct sales. Their telephone staff for entire region is usually one person and they charge fees to drop ship because that one person has to input another entity into their system.

rubin

inspiredsports wrote: »

Disintermediation has been a hot topic for a long time. It can be good for the consumer in terms of bringing lower prices to the marketplace, but unfortunately, most consumer's jobs/incomes are derived from their being "middle men" too.

Correct, and if I were employed in retail/sales it would bother me. In fact it would scare me.

VR3

Why should it scare retail salesman?

If a store cant adapt - it should.

Believe it or not people do not like shopping on the internet. They shop on the internet because they pretty much have no choice because B&M stores are not adapting. They are ignoring the internet.

Go to staples and try to price match printer ink. Unless the store you are price matching has has a B&M they wont. That is stupid.

The company I work for has experienced incredible growth the last two years because of simply not ignoring the internet. Last year in the later part of the year it was 30% growth.

This year we have a steady 10-15% increase.

We streamlined inventory, lowered prices and are going from a higher GMROI.

We educated ourselves and improved.

The internet is not the answer to retail buying and the several thousand people a month we talk to agree with us and as long as we are competitive on pricing they would like to buy local.

Either way - I say this and at the same time my entire stereo was purchased online because there simply is not an home audio store that I know of that is competitive... at all.

inspiredsports

rubin wrote: »

Correct, and if I were employed in retail/sales it would bother me. In fact it would scare me.

Unless you are the Owner of a raw materials mine or work for yourself as a consultant selling only your knowledge, you are a "middle man". Anything else is subject to elimination.

I'm not taking a position here or supporting superfluous jobs that only add to cost, just defining what you brought up in terms of the elimination of "middle men".

Toolfan66

In my line of work it is crazy with raw materials right now, the cost is so up and down, we have to stay on top of it everyday. it's real easy to be building something and be upside down real quick..

DarqueKnight

RuSsMaN wrote: »

Raife, I'm on your side brother.

Russ, I know you always mean well brother. Obviously, I share your frustration.

RuSsMaN wrote: »

Obviously you can't beat it into them, seriously, did you get the answer you were looking for here? I get it. A few others get it. You certainly get it.

The answer is, there is no answer...only raw emotion.

Seriously, I think this thread is ready for archiving as we have covered all the bases.

BlueFox

Audio Adviser, Music Direct, and Crutchfield are Internet based, seem to be doing well, and sell at list price. However, you can get free shipping if you buy enough, and, of course, no sales tax. Selling at list price on the Internet should give you enough profit to allow for free shipping versus lowering the price and charging for shipping.

quadzilla

I'm personally starting to think that this is like many other debates; those decrying the action, whatever it may be, feel a need to force their morality/priorities/will on others in order to make themselves feel more powerful and to demonstrate their control.

cokewithvanilla

DarqueKnight wrote: »

The answer is, there is no answer...only raw emotion.

Seriously, I think this thread is ready for archiving as we have covered all the bases.

oh give me a break, you knew what this would turn into when you posted it. You posted about 40k cables, and hardly anyone in this thread is talking about (or has EVER been worried about) 40k cables.

People seem to be talking about cables that they have purchased, or those in their price range that seem to have incredible markup. Sure, you can get on your high horse and explain how the economy works all you want, but everyone will still have their opinion.

When you, and people on your side of the debate, say things like "they will never get it", you are really saying that there is only one side to the argument, which isn't true. Perhaps it is to your initial statement (about luxury goods), but obviously your initial statement is of no concern to most people, as no one has really discussed it.

edit: oh, and I don't think anyone is actually mad at cables. Perhaps your supposition that everyone is mad at cables is what got everyone so mad. You assume that people even care... people like voicing their opinion whether they put any 'emotion' into it or not.

DON73

TOOLFORLIFEFAN wrote: »

Kettle Black??? no one put your name out there. I see who proved who is the Idiot Naysayer..:rolleyes:

Easy there big boy. Go back and massage your speaker wires some more and be cool

ysss

Ah c'mon, even the thread topic was worded in trollingo.

madmax

Just for the record I LOVE shopping on the internet. Nothing like a little on-line research, tilting a few cold ones and pulling out the credit card!

DON73

ysss wrote: »

Ah c'mon, even the thread topic was worded in trollingo.

Zing!

DON73

Ok I'm willing to spend a few bucks (FEW) more to try some higher priced wires. In the past I've tried $100+ for a 6ft. pair and wasn't impressed. They're laying somewhere in my garage because the wire keeps breaking. I won't mention the brand but they're well known. Give me a few suggestions under say $200 if there are any in that price range that you would recommend.

kevhed72

DON73 wrote: »

Ok I'm willing to spend a few bucks (FEW) more to try some higher priced wires. In the past I've tried $100+ for a 6ft. pair and wasn't impressed. They're laying somewhere in my garage because the wire keeps breaking. I won't mention the brand but they're well known. Give me a few suggestions under say $200 if there are any in that price range that you would recommend.

MIT T4 used off Audiogon.

rubin

A 15" subwoofer built by a well respected manufacturer is listed @ $3300.00, supplied from a B&M authorized dealer. (2) SVS pc ultra 13"s list @ $3400.00 (internet) A lot more for a lot less. Erased the "middle man". BTW owner reviews considered the SVS had overall better performance as well.

I recently replaced a damaged driver in one of my floor standers. Direct from the manufacturer (OEM) was 25 percent less than the authorized B&M dealer price. Again erased the "middle man"

fishbones

DON73 wrote: »

Give me a few suggestions under say $200 if there are any in that price range that you would recommend.

Don, I have a set of JPS Ultraconductor 8' pair Speaker Cables that I was going to list soon. I bought them from George Daniel on here. The 8' run was not long enough for me once I changed my room around, so I have no need for them anymore. They're a good sounding cable. I believe they were $300 originally. I'll do the same price George did - $80 shipped. Here is the original link if you want more info or pics: http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?t=110635&highlight=%2A8%27%2A+pair

LG100

I'm one who's owned and operated some moderately priced Hi Fi components & speakers with Home Depot $29.95 per 100' reel speaker wire as well as having tried out some moderately expensive cables (under $500 for 2-6' runs) and I'm back to the lamp cord from the hardware store as the difference, for me, was there but I had to "strain" to perceive it. My last hearing test was A-OK acc'd to the Dr. That being out of the way, my own theory is that this thing called psychoacoustics exists and, if we're not going to begrudge folks paying more for a ground floor apartment because they perceive it's safer, why begrudge folks who perceive 2" thick speaker cables sound better their option to purchase 2" speaker cables? I think, historically, part of the rub comes in the form of "Well,...You're going to need much much better cabling in order to get that (pick any system or component thereof) to be worth listening to." or similar. No, some of us won't need the better cabling. Some of us will. Depends on how our perception of sound works on a person by person basis...

inspiredsports

LG100 wrote: »

I'm one who's owned and operated some moderately priced Hi Fi components & speakers with Home Depot $29.95 per 100' reel speaker wire as well as having tried out some moderately expensive cables (under $500 for 2-6' runs) and I'm back to the lamp cord from the hardware store as the difference, for me, was there but I had to "strain" to perceive it. My last hearing test was A-OK acc'd to the Dr. That being out of the way, my own theory is that this thing called psychoacoustics exists and, if we're not going to begrudge folks paying more for a ground floor apartment because they perceive it's safer, why begrudge folks who perceive 2" thick speaker cables sound better their option to purchase 2" speaker cables? I think, historically, part of the rub comes in the form of "Well,...You're going to need much much better cabling in order to get that (pick any system or component thereof) to be worth listening to." or similar. No, some of us won't need the better cabling. Some of us will. Depends on how our perception of sound works on a person by person basis...

So being back to "lampcord", did you then resell the under $500 cables to recapture the investment value?

P.S.: Does "lamp" cord have a "light"er sound ?? :biggrin:

steveinaz

I woke up this morning, mad at my cables.

audio_alan

Keiko wrote: »

Never again will I pass along a good thing here after all the crap this has stirred up. If I had known beforehand the direction this has taken, I wouldn't have posted the deal.

Too bad this thing has gotten screwed up by a handful of **** clowns. It's really pathetic! If MIT were giving away those cables for free, some would still find a reason to ****, whine and complain. I think a lot of them wouldn't know good sound if it came up and bit 'em on the ****. Sad this got ruined for those that do appreciate it.

[/end rant] :mad:

It appears as though this has somewhat stemed from my post questioning whether it was my system, not enough burn time, or whether the low-end MITs weren't on-par with the high quality Shotguns, etc.

To clarify, I was by no means trying to start this flame war. I was legitametly trying to ask for honest advice and opinions. Re-reading my original post on the other thread, I still believe it was a fair topic to seek advice on and didn't try to incite bashing...

Anyway, Keiko, I really do appreciate that you posted the info on the MIT sale. I got two high quality cables for $100. No complaints here! Sorry if I in part caused this uproar...

Flash21

cokewithvanilla wrote: »

oh give me a break, you knew what this would turn into when you posted it.

Heh, he has a point there...

LG100

inspiredsports wrote: »

So being back to "lampcord", did you then resell the under $500 cables to recapture the investment value?

P.S.: Does "lamp" cord have a "light"er sound ?? :biggrin:

I think the buddy that I talked into letting me try out the cables he'd bought eventually did sell them. :biggrin: Best as I can remember, the "lamp cord" (what I'm calling hardware store speaker wire in the 100' spools) may have sounded about a half point "less high resolution" than my friend's speaker cables on a 0-100 scale...but that's just me.

cokewithvanilla

Keiko,

I do not think anyone is less than satisfied with their purchase. Your information definitely helped a lot of people, myself included.

People got to find out, at a low cost, what higher end cables could do in their system. I don't think anyone is bitching about the price they paid for these cables. I consider this a good experience for me, it has ruled out my $2 cord as a possible weak link in my system... to me, that's worth a lot.

You have to expect when a large group of people buy something and report back, there will be differing opinions on the effect it has made on their system. You will hear both good and bad stories, but the bottom line is no one is dissatisfied. You have to expect twice as much of this type of thing with something as controversial as cables.

Also, it does not help when people like DK bring up yet another thread (4 now) on cables within a week.... it just ends up as a great big merged thread for the same thing.

Toolfan66

Time to kill this thread as it is going nowhere!!!


Expensive Cables = Better Sound
Lamp Cord sounds the same as Expensive Cables
And we are all Guilty of Trolling this thread!!!!!