Pioneer Elite vs. Harmon Kardon 247

Well,

There's certainly going to be a price difference there. No? Harman Kardon receivers are generally among the 'warmest' sounding mid-fi AVRs.

Pioneer Elites are solid pieces of equipment, the newer 0X series much better than the previous. I've heard the previous series Elite with LSI towers and the Elite just couldn't really drive them properly, it never opened up their sound stage and imaging.

The newer Pioneers are a different story, I would definitely go with one of the higher models over the HK.

I see you have on older Denon so the upgrade is really for the pass through HDMIs, and Tru-HD...I have a PS3 too and I use a Denon 2807 to pass the decoded sound. Any reason why you're leaving Denon. Don't like the sound, looking for something warmer, or just a cheaper pre-pro?

cnh

Is it the 94 then that was the Real step-up that year, maybe that's what I was thinking.

cnh

I have an HK240 and have tested a Pioneer Elite 92 and a Pioneer 1018 (supposedly an "inexpensive Elite-like" receiver. I would have to say my impression was that the sound was very similar on the Elite, and slightly "thinner" (less warm, less dynamic) on the 1018. I kept feeling the 1018 was straining a little on the 4-6 ohm loads. The 92 was not. Don't get my wrong, both Pioneers were well in line with their price-points and certainly packed with features the HK didn't have. You asked about sound quality however.

In the end, I would have to say the Elite is definitely a step up. The sound is similar (laid back, warm, effortless but still dynamic). It is certainly the first receiver I would look at if I were replacing my HK (I currently use my 240 as a processor). I have a friend with similar musical tastes to mine who recently bought a 92 to drive his Thiel's which are notoriously inefficient speakers. He absolutely loves it. Whether or not the price difference is worth it (if you don't care about the added features), only you can decide.

cnh wrote: »

You're right, I just looked it up. But the MSRP between the HK and the 92 is more than 2/1. The 92 was 1500 with a 130/channel rating. The HK can't be any more than 600 tops MSRP. With a bit lower power. I would assume the power difference would be a bit noticeable even though HK is a high current amp and more forthright with their ratings.

In any case. It depends on what he's powering. As I said, the older Elite and LSIs, not so much.

I also think the Elites are probably more reliable.

cnh

They aren't called "Elites" for nothing!

$700 shipped for a Pioneer Elite 92, that's in flawless condition, and comes with all original packaging and accessories, MCACC Micophone, Ipod Connection Cable, AM/FM Antennas, Programmable Remote, and the Owners Manual..........Is certainly a fantastic deal.

Do you have a Best Buy around you with a Magnolia store in it?

If you do, you should just go check it out for yourself, my store still carries the Elite 92, so i'm willing to bet most of them do.

dbaldus wrote: »

Okay, guys, let me make something clear when I'm asking for a comparison here...

Price should NOT be a factor when comparing the mid-range H/Ks to the Pioneer Elite model I'm looking at in this case.

I am simply concerned with the differences in sound quality, not the differences in sound quality versus how much it would cost to buy each of them.

Your input so far has been great, but I'd like to keep this thread focused on the topic at hand and steer it away from a discussion on price points.

Thanks again!

Thanks for the clarification.

Again, what are you going to run as a speaker set. The HKs, IMO are a bit warmer than the Elite. And the Elite have a bit more detail and imaging.

The Elite definitely has the edge in raw power and 'reliability'.

cnh

Maybe I missed something, why upgrade from an HK to the Elite when you actually own a Denon?;)

If the budget allows, go for the 92 unless you dont mind spending more coin and going for the 05/07. You'll notice the improvement.

dbaldus wrote: »

My setup will be:
Rti70s
Csi40
Fxi50 (hopefully soon!)

Those fronts are fairly easy to drive at 8 ohms. I think I might just go with the Pioneer on that. Also those new ICEPower class D amps are not just hype...they're the real thing, have heard them...definitely worth the step-up. Might be all the power you need for now...that is? Sound is better than the HK or the 92.

cnh

dbaldus wrote: »

What would be the most noticeable improvement, in your opinion?

I'm just trying to get a feel of what to expect as I've experimented with different amps in the past that have doubled or quadrupled my wattage (using my H/K as a pre) and have noticed VERY little, if any, difference in how my speakers sound. I don't want to end up in that same situation with the Pioneer Elite, which is basically why I'm asking about sound quality specifically.

FYI... I have come to the conclusion that I haven't been noticing much of a difference with higher-powered amps due to the fact that my speakers are pretty easy to drive (RTi70s).

Here is the reason why you are not getting the results you are looking for.
1) You do not need more power then your receiver is puting out so adding amps will give you little to no sound quality improvement unless your running at reference levels and are looking for the Max dynamic range, unless your receiver is running out of gas at reference levels then a amp will make a differnece.
2) The sound quality comes from the preamp or receiver not the amp. Amps make very little difference in overall sound quality, they do however make a difference if the speaker demands more power then the amp can provide.

Many people think they understand this but really they do not. The speakers are what you have to consider before anything. Getting the right pair or system for you is huge. The sub also is a huge part of the system to make things work correctly.

So ok you added a Rotel rmb1080 to a pair of Rti70's. Such a waste of money. Selling that amp is the correct thing to do. Selling the H/K is also a good move. Buy the Pioneer Elite vsx92txh. This is a very good match for your speaker package. It will give you more detail and clarity then the H/K. I'm not saying the H/K is not a good piece, it is actually but I feel the Elite receiver is a better match for your speakers. Thats my opinion.

I thought I saw a 92 for sale in the Flea market, you should talk to the owner, his asking price is a steal. Grab it and then tell us how badass it is after you get everything connected.

So another piece of advise I can give you is setup and calibration, mess this up and I don't care how good your system is, it will sound like ****. Speaker placement first off is criditical to the overall performance of the system. Room gain and echo is also something to consider. Acoustic's of a room can make or break ones system. This is another thing you can look.

If I needed that amp, I would buy it right now. It'a a fantastic amp but there is no need in your system. If you owned LSI speakers then I would tell you to grab my amp and use it to power all 5 and use the receiver as a pre. And I would still tell you to grab the Elite as it makes for a better pre then the H/K.

Dan

mantis wrote: »

Here is the reason why you are not getting the results you are looking for.
1) You do not need more power then your receiver is puting out so adding amps will give you little to no sound quality improvement unless your running at reference levels and are looking for the Max dynamic range, unless your receiver is running out of gas at reference levels then a amp will make a differnece.
2) The sound quality comes from the preamp or receiver not the amp. Amps make very little difference in overall sound quality, they do however make a difference if the speaker demands more power then the amp can provide.

Many people think they understand this but really they do not. The speakers are what you have to consider before anything. Getting the right pair or system for you is huge. The sub also is a huge part of the system to make things work correctly.

So ok you added a Rotel rmb1080 to a pair of Rti70's. Such a waste of money. Selling that amp is the correct thing to do. Selling the H/K is also a good move. Buy the Pioneer Elite vsx92txh. This is a very good match for your speaker package. It will give you more detail and clarity then the H/K. I'm not saying the H/K is not a good piece, it is actually but I feel the Elite receiver is a better match for your speakers. Thats my opinion.

I thought I saw a 92 for sale in the Flea market, you should talk to the owner, his asking price is a steal. Grab it and then tell us how badass it is after you get everything connected.

So another piece of advise I can give you is setup and calibration, mess this up and I don't care how good your system is, it will sound like ****. Speaker placement first off is criditical to the overall performance of the system. Room gain and echo is also something to consider. Acoustic's of a room can make or break ones system. This is another thing you can look.

If I needed that amp, I would buy it right now. It'a a fantastic amp but there is no need in your system. If you owned LSI speakers then I would tell you to grab my amp and use it to power all 5 and use the receiver as a pre. And I would still tell you to grab the Elite as it makes for a better pre then the H/K.

Dan

And thats the reason why this guy is the Elite Guru, well said Dan. How's that 07 treating you? Agreed I think the 92 is a great piece and for the price Metal is offering its a steal.