In the dumps.... What to do need advise...

SolidSqual

Get a lawyer. They cost less than you think. They can't take all your stuff. She will probably get one. Dividing lives is more complicated than you think, especially with kids. There is a massive number of issues that can be avoided in the future if you settle them now.

disneyjoe7

Sal I plan to be at PF I haven't missed one yet, well maybe Russman first one but...


Solid no kids lucky me. House is becoming a boat anchor around our necks. I friend of my wife who is a Realtor shown us what this house would appraise for in this market it seems we would be 60k short. Might be best to pull second as a personal loan, but that wouldn't be pretty. Still talking counseling but feel she's left this relationship awhile ago, and I don't believe she willing to work it out. She's now pissed it coming down to money, it's like they get tied of being attached / married and then wish to be 17 and free once again.

cstmar01

disneyjoe7 wrote: »

Sal I plan to be at PF I haven't missed one yet, well maybe Russman first one but...


Solid no kids lucky me. House is becoming a boat anchor around our necks. I friend of my wife who is a Realtor shown us what this house would appraise for in this market it seems we would be 60k short. Might be best to pull second as a personal loan, but that wouldn't be pretty. Still talking counseling but feel she's left this relationship awhile ago, and I don't believe she willing to work it out. She's now pissed it coming down to money, it's like they get tied of being attached / married and then wish to be 17 and free once again.

one thing an attorney may suggest btw is also bankruptcy to shed the 2nd mortgage. Some will suggest this other's won't.
Also you can always try for a short sale. If you can get the 2nd mortgage holder to agree to a certain amount from the sale, if its large enough they may forgive you of the debt, or you would have to sign a payback agreement such as you payback 15K in an unsecured noted for 15 years ect ect.

if you would file BK then you are shed of the debt as long as you don't reaffirm it, meaning that you agree to pay it back. The bank will still hold a lien on the property, but they can not come after you for the money owed. A lot of people will also reaffirm on the 1st mortgage and not on the 2nd, and normally if there's no equity for the 2nd to foreclose, they won't. It doesn't make sense for them to payout for a large 1st and recover nothing, they will just take it as a loss. Also this way you can shed all debt that was joint such as Credit cards ect if it would come down to her not wanting to pay and refusing. I am not sure of FL law regarding marriage so regardless of any advice I would recommend getting a lawyer and seeing what they recommend.

disneyjoe7

I hear yea I wouldn't make that move without some heavy advise first.

Polkersince85

^^Does the IRS still charge taxes on forgiven debt? May be a trap there.

disneyjoe7

They can and will if they send you a 1099

coolsax

if you only had a 1st lien on the property you could get it forgiven w/o tax penalty, but it sound like your second is a HELOC type loan right? if so that debt cannot be forgiven tax free.

nooshinjohn

coolsax wrote: »

if you only had a 1st lien on the property you could get it forgiven w/o tax penalty, but it sound like your second is a HELOC type loan right? if so that debt cannot be forgiven tax free.

The IRS forgave me on a delinquent income tax charge that I never knew of from my ex-wife, and then turned around and penalized me for not declaring that forgiveness as income.:eek:

JPSmario

Joe, I'm sorry to hear about your situation. My divorce finalized last year and there's nothing about the process that doesn't just suck (just different degrees of how bad). If you and your wife can't agree on a counselor (or just don't want to anymore), I recommend moving on with your life. We used a mediator and lawyers that work in collaborative divorce, where you work out your own settlement. Much less combative and you walk away feeling better about it. I'm sorry to hear how complicated your financials are, but they're not worth continuing the stress and pain you're going through. You won't believe how much of that lifts off you when it's done. Good luck, man.

Jim

hearingimpared

disneyjoe7 wrote: »

Sal I plan to be at PF I haven't missed one yet, well maybe Russman first one but...


Solid no kids lucky me. House is becoming a boat anchor around our necks. I friend of my wife who is a Realtor shown us what this house would appraise for in this market it seems we would be 60k short. Might be best to pull second as a personal loan, but that wouldn't be pretty. Still talking counseling but feel she's left this relationship awhile ago, and I don't believe she willing to work it out. She's now pissed it coming down to money, it's like they get tied of being attached / married and then wish to be 17 and free once again.

Steve, and I'm speaking from experience here, no amount of counseling is going to work if both parties don't have the mindset that they are willing to go to any lengths to make the counseling work. Are you sure she isn't into it or are you projecting your feelings of such onto her? She just may surprise you.

disneyjoe7

Tough call not sure, if she will go, if she's into it. She's not happy, she Love's me but don't Love me. She's not happy also due to the fact we would have a loan of house later, I state she could work that out but... I again feel she's done, it's over. She could surprise me in the end.

disneyjoe7

If a sale, due to soft market.

Would it be best to split differences in money into a personnel loan and have this years out. Or force a foreclosure and walk away? One quicker one's cleaner.

dkg999

disneyjoe7 wrote: »

If a sale, due to soft market.

Would it be best to split differences in money into a personnel loan and have this years out. Or force a foreclosure and walk away? One quicker one's cleaner.

You need an attorney. The answers aren't going to come from this forum. They almost always get po'd because a divorce comes down to two things, built up emotions and money. That's it, nothing else really matters. The judge doesn't care who's doing what unless kids are involved. Your attorney takes the emotions out of it and goes to work on your behalf. Your attorney will also know what options are acceptable to your local judges, and that's something you need to know. Just because an option is technically available doesn't mean your local courts will bless it.

coolsax

Well if you are able to each get a personal loan to cover the difference when selling the house and you're OK with that then that is the best option credit wise for you.
If you short sell and have the remaining debt forgiven then you'll have a hit on your credit and you'll likely have to pay taxes on the forgiven portion.
or you can foreclose which will kill your credit probably and probably wont' be able to buy a new house for at least 5-7 years. even in a foreclosure some lenders(especially 2nd lien holders) are going after judgements for the remainder if they don't get back all their money b/c house doesn't resell for more than the total of loan amounts against it. If they did that you could possibly file a BK to try and get rid of it since at that point its an unsecured debt once you no longer own the house.

the best option is to consult a lawyer on what is the best option for both the possible divorce and for yoru options with the home.

cstmar01

coolsax wrote: »

Well if you are able to each get a personal loan to cover the difference when selling the house and you're OK with that then that is the best option credit wise for you.
If you short sell and have the remaining debt forgiven then you'll have a hit on your credit and you'll likely have to pay taxes on the forgiven portion.
or you can foreclose which will kill your credit probably and probably wont' be able to buy a new house for at least 5-7 years. even in a foreclosure some lenders(especially 2nd lien holders) are going after judgements for the remainder if they don't get back all their money b/c house doesn't resell for more than the total of loan amounts against it. If they did that you could possibly file a BK to try and get rid of it since at that point its an unsecured debt once you no longer own the house.

the best option is to consult a lawyer on what is the best option for both the possible divorce and for yoru options with the home.

correct. However I would say 85% of the loan get a money judgment filed on them while the others get sent to a collection agency. It all comes down to the balance and size of it. Like if you owe more than 10K on the 2nd we might just send it to a collection agency to have them contact you for payments. Otherwise it can go to a money judgment and then they can garnish your wages, ect ect if you don't pay on the judgment. However if one party files for BK and the other does not then the party that didn't is still responsible for the debt and would recieve calls. In a short sale sometimes depending on the circumstance they will just take a lump sum like 15-20% of the debt owed on the 2nd and forgive the rest, however then you have other things like the 1099 ect ect.

disneyjoe7

Citations like this are easier when we are in an up market, house isn't upside down.

markmarc

You're going to be looking back and realizing a bunch of "red flags" were popping up. If you part, get it down in writing that you agree not to sell the house until the market improves. When you do sell agree that any upgrade costs done that improves the sellability will be split 50/50 with proof of receipt.

In the meantime, once she moves out get a roommate, but agree to visit in person once a week, especially if you're avoiding using lawyers. I would also be very aware that with her training she knows exactly what to say and how to guide a conversation.

disneyjoe7

Well I have an update, I think I should at this point share... Why not at this point right?


I think the 60k in the hole with the house shook her up some. She has agreed to COUNSELING TOGETHER May not do anything but why not try it, and maybe I can learn something about each other. If in the end it's still Splitsville I may understand better on why.

hearingimpared

dkg999 wrote: »

You need an attorney. The answers aren't going to come from this forum. They almost always get po'd because a divorce comes down to two things, built up emotions and money. That's it, nothing else really matters. The judge doesn't care who's doing what unless kids are involved. Your attorney takes the emotions out of it and goes to work on your behalf. Your attorney will also know what options are acceptable to your local judges, and that's something you need to know. Just because an option is technically available doesn't mean your local courts will bless it.

Great advise here Dougy. One more thing to add. Steve, if it does come to a split and you get yourself an attorney, use him as an attorney ONLY! Some people, and I am guilty of it, use a divorce attorney as a shrink too and the clock is running. That mistake cost me to the tune of $8K and that was in 1987. So if you need to talk or cry on someone's shoulder use your friends or a counselor.

Jetmaker737

disneyjoe7 wrote: »

Well I have an update, I think I should at this point share... Why not at this point right?


I think the 60k in the hole with the house shook her up some. She has agreed to COUNSELING TOGETHER May not do anything but why not try it, and maybe I can learn something about each other. If in the end it's still Splitsville I may understand better on why.

Good. Despite my earlier posts I think it's best if you can make it work. Divorce is a God awful process you don't want to undertake if you don't have to. But if you do have to, then I stand by my earlier posts. :cool:

disneyjoe7

Thanks everyone for your prays, thoughts, and advise. Who knows for sure but I feel you could have started something great on my end.

coolsax

thoughts and prayers to you man.. just make sure you do what's best for you.. regardless if that means staying together or splitting up.

jemrey81

Hi Joe, I was just browsing through the site and came across your posting... I admit, I didn't read ALL of the comments but I caught a lot of what's going on in your life. Let me start by saying that I haven't been in your situation, and I have only been married for 8 years. We have had our issues, but LOVE ALWAYS PREVAILS. I am not sure where you are religiously, and I don't want to over step any boundaries, but I wanted to send this link to you. The church that I attend has a monthly meeting just for "Young Marrieds" anyone under 40 and married... it is quite a blessing. There isn't any weird content or anything, it simply teaches what the Bible has to say about marriage and the roles of the husband and wife. I highly recommend sitting down with your wife and listening to the sermons. If you're not offended at this recommendation, you should start with the first one that was recorded April 4th 2008 and go in order from there. The person teaching is not our senior Pastor, so he is a little all over the place and repeats alot but his teachings are honest and true. I will admit that they have really opened up a lot of hiddden areas in our marriage, healed a lot of hurt, and showed us how we wrong eachother and most importantly how to overcome and love eachother. Here is the link if you're willing to try it: http://metrocalvary.org/listen/young-marrieds/

Here is a beautiful song that hit me so hard a few weeks ago, really reminded me that I live for myself too much and that it is so much more than just a relationship between her and I. That, and it's more than just living to live (work, clean the house, pay the bills, etc.) Here is a link to hear the song that I am talking about, with a slideshow of the lyrics: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OAKBXBXz1fo

I am sorry if I offended anyone with my post, but here it is any ways. This is who I am.

JPSmario

Glad to hear you can pursue the counseling process! It sounds like you still care about each other. Do everything you can; that way, regardless of how things turn out, you can go on without regrets about what you might have done.

My best thoughts are with you.

cnh

I've tried to process some of the above. And you have my sympathies. All marriages reach a point where some crisis leads to an ending or a renewal. That is a normal part of life. Nothing 'stays' the same...everything always 'changes'. My wife and I have been together about as long as you. But I suspect that you are YOUNGER than I. This is my first marriage, her second..so she's been there done that. And I waited a LONG TIME to get it right--married late!

What I would ask is how old is your wife? And is she still fairly young, is she going through any life changes? Probably not...too young I assume! So the other question is what did she do before, does she do...does she have a career? Did the two of you MUTUALLY decide to not have children or was that more YOUR or HER choice...because that can be a problem if biological clocks are ticking! I have a good friend whose marriage ended because of 'that'. The wife moved on, remarried and had kids.

And the obvious question...unasked. Is there 'someone' else behind the scenes...in the picture....an 'affair' that is known or not 'yet' known.

These are just a few rather obvious things to think about and chances are that I'm merely grasping at straws since I don't know you.

But in any case...it does sound from everything above that it is time to 'move' on.

You, however, still sound emotionally attached. So that may not be as easy as we might think.

Good Luck...!

cnh

disneyjoe7

About age I'm 45, she 48 :eek: I always questioned the bio thing but... the story behind that that's a MAN thing Major event her dad died suddenly at 70 heart attack which was the start of this in my mind.

george daniel

disneyjoe7 wrote: »

Thanks everyone for your prays, thoughts, and advise. Who knows for sure but I feel you could have started something great on my end.

Steve,, I sincerely hope that it all works out well for both of you,,life is too short as it is.:)

wutadumsn23

Wishin you the best for a stable and happy future Steve.

-Jeff

Polk user

From what you posted here it seems like she is hanging out VERY close to the fence and looking at the other side. Get a lawyer ASAP. If she is staying with you because of finances, she will bolt when she feels like the time is right for her, not you. Protect yourself.

Sorry things didn't work out.

disneyjoe7

Polk user wrote: »

From what you posted here it seems like she is hanging out VERY close to the fence and looking at the other side. Get a lawyer ASAP. If she is staying with you because of finances, she will bolt when she feels like the time is right for her, not you. Protect yourself.

Sorry things didn't work out.

Agree, lawyered up today..... He's a bit scary.... I'm a bit afraid of him and he's on my side. :eek:;):D