CD vs Vinyl sound

IRLRaceFan

smithdrk44 wrote: »

- this is the answer. Digital recordings will never reach the full range of shades of musical sounds. This is not possible because of the nature of digital recording media. Never 1 and 0 might be at the expression of the music sound fuller. We can not claim that vinyl can fully convey the music, but it is still closer.

I (respectfully) disagree, especially with your statement about the nature of digital recording media. More bits and higher sample rate is the answer. Obviously there is cost associated with this and the general public is happy with 99-cent mp3's, so you won't see much better digital quality soon... (in mass availability)

I didn't take the time to read this whole thread, but I hope someone has mentioned the "loudness war" and the way most music is engineered these days. This has a lot to do with CD's sounding worse than vinyl.

I recently started digitizing some of my vinyl: 24-bit / 98-kHz. I did a comparison between a vinyl rip & the actual CD (Slash's 2010 solo album). The CD has a ton of clipping and a much harsher sound, but more (boomy) low frequency. I was really surprised that my 18yr-old daughter, who thinks there is no such thing as too much bass, preferred the vinyl ripped songs over the CD.

I personally find my vinyl rips sound as good as the vinyl (close enough for my ear), but...my investment in digital equipment (computer, DAC, digital interface, software) is double what I have tied up in turntable hardware.

Scottinwa

This table isn't what I consider expensive. Pair this with a $300 cart and it makes Godlike music, the likes of which my SACD SCD-1 could not achieve. I had to hold my wallet in my pants and back out the door slowly.

SCompRacer

Please, don't show me an inexpensive belt drive turntable and say godlike in the same sentence. You may like the way it presents music, but it is incapable of the PRaT (Pace, Rhythm and Timing) that a direct or idler drive turntable can produce. A strobe and speed checker will illustrate that with a needle in the groove through difficult passages by minute speed differences and the belt flexing/stretching. I know this as I have measured that sort of thing on the many turntables I have owned (including light and heavy platter belt drives).

We have a vinyl rules guy at the local audio emporium too. He is very close minded to the fact that digital playback, even hi-res, can sound extremely good. Good for you absolute wielding isolationists, I'll continue to embrace and enjoy both.

Scottinwa

Well Scomp, since I am not caught up in audio snobbery, I can use Godlike anytime I wish. It sounded GREAT, blew the $20K wadia cdp into the dirt in terms of <giggle> "PRAT" and midrange. I just listened (in a group) to some infinity ribbons with a technics Sl-1300 TT with a pickering cart. That too sounded GREAT...nothing you can say will alter that. No amount of "down the nose" pedestrian gear rants will have any effect at all. Everyone loved the presentation, and they all have high end gear. Please, don't use the British-invented snob term "PRAT" it's so pretentious and abused like a stepchild. "GASP!!! That table costs less than $10K!!!! There is no PRAT! It is TOTALLY ILLEGAL to enjoy it!!!! GMAFB already. It's just gear. And I have heard $88K tables before.

I am a musician. I listen to MUSIC not GEAR.

F1nut

Snap, crackle, pop.....yeah, good stuff there. :rolleyes:

SCompRacer

Scottinwa wrote: »

I listen to MUSIC not GEAR.

Uh, OK!:cheesygrin:

Oh but you are caught up in snobbery. You are the one looking for confrontation. I consider godlike perfection, and you obviously don't. Simple fact, no snobbery, whether you don't like the British term PRaT or not, is you can't have it unless you have CONSTANT, UNWAVERING speed no matter what the stylus goes through. Simple fact, quartz locked direct drives and idler drives CAN do that. Not all belt drives can do that. But yes, they can sound good but not as good as something with CONSTANT, UNWAVERING speed. (Aren't musicians concerned with timing? Isn't that Technics 1300 you liked a direct drive?)

You are the one spouting off about the high dollar gear. You say you are a musician and only listen to the music, yet you seem highly concerned and opinionated about sonic qualities and speaking in absolutes of what is better. Sounds both ironic and hypocritical.

I am an end user. I like music and I like it to sound good, both digital and vinyl, and you don't have to spend a fortune to do it. Get over yourself.

shack

SCompRacer wrote: »

Uh, OK!:cheesygrin:

Oh but you are caught up in snobbery. You are the one looking for confrontation. I consider godlike perfection, and you obviously don't. Simple fact, no snobbery, whether you don't like the British term PRaT or not, is you can't have it unless you have CONSTANT, UNWAVERING speed no matter what the stylus goes through. Simple fact, quartz locked direct drives and idler drives CAN do that. Not all belt drives can do that. But yes, they can sound good but not as good as something with CONSTANT, UNWAVERING speed. (Aren't musicians concerned with timing? Isn't that Technics 1300 you liked a direct drive?)

You are the one spouting off about the high dollar gear. You say you are a musician and only listen to the music, yet you seem highly concerned and opinionated about sonic qualities and speaking in absolutes of what is better. Sounds both ironic and hypocritical.

I am an end user. I like music and I like it to sound good, both digital and vinyl, and you don't have to spend a fortune to do it. Get over yourself.

Well said Rich.

40+ years of this HiFi hobby has shown me there are NO absolutes when it comes to the quality of the music we listen to. I have experieced most of the spectrum of audio gear from rigs costing a few dollars to systems in the hundred of thouands dollars...and there is NO perfect rig (maybe that is an absolute). I have heard modest hi-rez digital rigs that blow mega dollar TTs away and vice versa. IMO the quality of the recording has as much to do with the sound as the gear...or...the gear has as much to do with the sound as does the recording. Hmmmm...maybe everything matters.

Scottinwa

Scomp, you pollute this place. You need to get over yourself. You should not even be here. Hardcore snobs like you consider polk pedestrian midfi anyway. You should go hand out in a snobs only club somewhere so you can rub each others...uh...egos.. Besides, with your attitude, everything made without the latest "accuracy" in speed control must be totally beneath you and people should be considered mentally challenged if they even dream it could sound good, because it has measurable variances...much like music. Sorry that I took an instant dislike to you. Lets just agree we really don't like each other and get on with life. But i do wish you'd never post to me again. Your opinion and attitude is of no value to me at all. i disregard you completely.

F1nut

Scottinwa wrote: »

Scomp, you pollute this place. You need to get over yourself. You should not even be here. Hardcore snobs like you consider polk pedestrian midfi anyway. You should go hand out in a snobs only club somewhere so you can rub each others...uh...egos.. Besides, with your attitude, everything made without the latest "accuracy" in speed control must be totally beneath you and people should be considered mentally challenged if they even dream it could sound good, because it has measurable variances...much like music. Sorry that I took an instant dislike to you. Lets just agree we really don't like each other and get on with life. But i do wish you'd never post to me again. Your opinion and attitude is of no value to me at all. i disregard you completely.

You are completely out of line and it would appear, mentally unstable. Ban this troll NOW!

cstmar01

Scottinwa wrote: »

Scomp, you pollute this place. You need to get over yourself. You should not even be here. Hardcore snobs like you consider polk pedestrian midfi anyway. You should go hand out in a snobs only club somewhere so you can rub each others...uh...egos.. Besides, with your attitude, everything made without the latest "accuracy" in speed control must be totally beneath you and people should be considered mentally challenged if they even dream it could sound good, because it has measurable variances...much like music. Sorry that I took an instant dislike to you. Lets just agree we really don't like each other and get on with life. But i do wish you'd never post to me again. Your opinion and attitude is of no value to me at all. i disregard you completely.

dude, stop.

Rich is a great guy and a great addition to this forum. I'm glad there are guys like him here and he's been super helpful to many here including me.

We all have to start somewhere, but there are comparisons, and no, a 500 TT with a 300 cart doesn't sound like a 5K CDP. Everything matters and it also depends on the recording and the gear playing it.

I own a 500 TT, and want to upgrade it because I KNOW it can be better and, doesn't it sound as good as my CDP? No, but does it sound good still? Yes.

I do find some recordings sound terrible on vinyl and I have both the CD and the vinyl pressing bought new. One was the National-Boxer on vinyl. Just sounded like pure butt. The CD however sounded good. Just my conclusions.

reeltrouble1

yea all you snobs better get out of this place...you hear me. cuz I said, you hear me...you better hear me, hear me now, and take your pollutents with you or I am calling the EPA, you hear me.

RT1

SCompRacer

F1nut wrote: »

You are completely out of line and it would appear, mentally unstable.

I agree! But I don't understand how Scott can consider Polk pedestrian mid-fi, at all. I sure don't. Or think poor speed control equates to measurable variances, like with music.

Scott, there used to be an ignore button. Take your meds, find it and get some instruction on how to use it.:cheesygrin:

shack

SCompRacer wrote:

Scott, there used to be an ignore button.

Rich, the ignore feature is still alive and well. In fact...I just made an addition to my list. (hint...it wasn't you)

tonyb

Keiko wrote: »

WoW! Dude, you need to seriously chill out. Scomp is a respectable and valued member of this board. You're way out of line and owe this man an apology.

I would say so too. Holy cow man.

Scott, lets back up. We don't do that around here. Don't know what your used to on other internet boards, but not here bro. It's ok to disagree, just not in that tone. We always welcome opposing views and good debate but personal attacks is the fastest way out of here. My suggestion.....take it or leave it, apologize to the man and chalk it up to having a bad day and we can all move on. Just sayin' is all.

amulford

Damn, is this really necessary?

rromeo923

Well I think that Vinyl sounds different than CD.
I also think that each individual recording is different.
I was listening to some vinyl yesterday that did not sound good. I was listening to some vinyl yesterday that sounded fantastic.

For everyday convenience and general listening I prefer digital files. I have thousands of flac and mp3 files. I mostly listen to them thru squeezebox on random play. The other day I was trying to guess which files were mp3 and which ones were flac (some albums I have both). I found out that I was wrong a lot of the times. Now all of my mp3s are 320 so maybe that made it closer.

For relaxing and more critical listening I prefer a quality vinyl recording.

FWIW.

George Grand

You are all "untouchables" because you do not think like me. And that SComp IS a snob/mean person.

SCompRacer

Well it's evil, wicked, mean and nasty.....Don't step on the grass, Sam.

tonyb

Just curious Rich, if I come over to listen to that dac, am I gonna have to bring a priest with ? Ya know....in case an exorcism is in order ? I'll have all the necessities, rosemary....crosses.... Holy water.....even garlic around the neck, maybe even a wood stake or 2, but should I go that extra step with the priest ? Just askin' is all, they need some advance notice.:cheesygrin::cheesygrin:

nspindel

I have a belt-drive Thorens TD166 MKII that I bought from UpstateMax, along with a Shure MX97E cartridge that can be bought on Amazon for $69, and it sounds freakin' amazing. I also have a $1000 sacd player that sounds amazing, too. But there is just something about the sound of vinyl that I can't put into words. I have 30,000 lossless tracks loaded on a Squeezebox, many are 24-bit, and I totally get the convenience aspect of digital. But there's just something about the sound of vinyl....

tonyb

Oh, don't get us wrong, the majority of us love the sound of vinyl, just isn't a good match with many lifestyles in todays world. It's that organic airy sound maybe you like, me too.

Good sound can be had at any and all levels in this hobby of ours. A cheap table with a decent cart ? Sure, it can sound good and you can stop right there if you so like. Pushing those bounderies of SQ though is always going to happen as long as your wallet agrees.

SCompRacer

tonyb wrote: »

Just curious Rich, if I come over to listen to that dac, am I gonna have to bring a priest with ? Ya know....in case an exorcism is in order ? ..... :cheesygrin:

Hey Tony, if that priest can exorcize 12 pounds off me and leave me with some six pack abs, bring em along. Otherwise I?m good.:cheesygrin:

schwarcw

Scottinwa wrote: »

Well Scomp, since I am not caught up in audio snobbery, I can use Godlike anytime I wish. It sounded GREAT, blew the $20K wadia cdp into the dirt in terms of <giggle> "PRAT" and midrange. I just listened (in a group) to some infinity ribbons with a technics Sl-1300 TT with a pickering cart. That too sounded GREAT...nothing you can say will alter that. No amount of "down the nose" pedestrian gear rants will have any effect at all. Everyone loved the presentation, and they all have high end gear. Please, don't use the British-invented snob term "PRAT" it's so pretentious and abused like a stepchild. "GASP!!! That table costs less than $10K!!!! There is no PRAT! It is TOTALLY ILLEGAL to enjoy it!!!! GMAFB already. It's just gear. And I have heard $88K tables before.

I am a musician. I listen to MUSIC not GEAR.

Right on Scotty! That Rich is a jagoff with a tin ear. I enjoy the liquid sounding midrange of my Fisher Price record player than one of those VPI/Krell combos. Never buy any audio equipment that can't be found in a Goodwill store. Money down the drain!

Jeesh Rich! Get the wax out of your ears!

SCompRacer

schwarcw wrote: »

Right on Scotty! That Rich is a jagoff with a tin ear. I enjoy the liquid sounding midrange of my Fisher Price record player than one of those VPI/Krell combos. Never buy any audio equipment that can't be found in a Goodwill store. Money down the drain!

Jeesh Rich! Get the wax out of your ears!

I had my ears cleaned before I came out to your place before Polkfest! The fill in doc stuck a firehose in there seven times and even scraped the ear drum!

Well you're a snob! Ever since you got that two men and a boy amp and Audio Reasearch phono pre there is no living with you! All for those modded pedestrian Polks (Scotts words). Everyone knows all you need is a $300 table and $200 cartridge to be godlike! But you wanted multiple orgasmic godslike and spent more! We're done!






(Oh, thanks for sending me those LP's. Let's talk tomorrow).

schwarcw

SCompRacer wrote: »

I had my ears cleaned before I came out to your place before Polkfest! The fill in doc stuck a firehose in there seven times and even scraped the ear drum!

Ha Ha! I knew that ear wash flush would resonate with you! LOL!

rromeo923

Just listening to some music.
Listened to some Beatles, Pink Floyd etc. All High Rez Flac Files. They sound amazing!

Just listened to some Vinyl. Bob Dylan, Simon and Garfunkel. Doesnt sound as good as the Flac files but somehow it sounds better.

That is a couple of doxes! A Pair!:cheesygrin:

nspindel

To me, it's not a "better or worse" contest. Whatever you enjoy is what's best. At the end of the day, all that matters is that you're having fun. It's a hobby, after all, not nuclear physics....

asindc

Depends on the recording. For example, I think the origiinal pressing of Steely Dan's Aja sounds much better than the reissue.

gigbyt

I really like vinyl but cd is more convenient to use.

gigbyt

plus all that maintenance of a TT ugh.