CD vs Vinyl sound

SCompRacer

I'm not positive, but I don't think the loading changes on the P75 when in PE mode? IIRC it's zero Ohms in PE mode.

SCompRacer

Another failed attempt to wear the grooves through the opposite side of an LP.:( Rest assured, I'm going to keep trying!:cool::D

george daniel

SCompRacer wrote: »

I'm not positive, but I don't think the loading changes on the P75 when in PE mode? IIRC it's zero Ohms in PE mode.

I believe that you are correct sir,, I just changed it to to "standard" and 100 ohms loading,,and I must admit that it does soun :)d much better,,I'll play with the other 2 loading options today,,I have it set a 60dB gain(normal),,thank you kindly Rich.

SCompRacer

The 20x low is a nice cartridge! Recommended loading is at or near 30 ohms IIRC. My Karat is ~100 Ohms.

george daniel

ok-- I hear and obey

SCompRacer

Truth be told George, I can get a stiffie from either digital or vinyl provided the recordings are well done. My first video attempt with an inexpensive Sony DV camera I just bought. I was supposed to be washing the hardwood floor (even though it looked clean to me), so everything is pushed to one wall.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BIJX9TmlaSM

Fongolio

That table, arm, and cartridge combo is badass Scomp!

EFanning

SCompRacer wrote: »

Truth be told George, I can get a stiffie from either digital or vinyl provided the recordings are well done. My first video attempt with an inexpensive Sony DV camera I just bought. I was supposed to be washing the hardwood floor (even though it looked clean to me), so everything is pushed to one wall.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BIJX9TmlaSM

Nice setup. Real nice.

The footage also shows how LPs can look like art in motion, in addition to sounding better.

As a home entertainment device, the setup in the above footage would be more valuable to me than a comparable home theater.

I guess a home setup like this one helps elevate music as a "healing art form." With LPs, there's more of a relationship with the music and a better chance that playback will improve one's mood.

It's a bit like drinking a Sam Adams Boston Lager in that new shapely glass. Takes a bit more time and effort but it does taste (and look) better.

Anyway, nice setup. And, now I want a beer.

POIDOG

mhardy6647 wrote: »

uhhh... I have the original Licorice Pizza out in the back room... haven't listened to it in a couple of decades.

Mmmm....Licorce Pizza, so tasty. Friday night, just got paid, made a stop at the "Licorce Pizza" shop on the way home. Weekend Vinyl S(p)in. :cool:

Days Future Passed

[Deleted User]

That's beautiful...!

SCompRacer

Thanks for the kind words. The arm is a 12” Moerch DP6, which is also available with a 9” arm. I know how Joe feels about Gold :eek::p:D so I tried to get a Black or Chrome plated one, but this is what showed up used at a good price. It does have adjustable VTA and azimuth. Three other arm weights are available to allow proper compliance with available cartridges.

I also have Joe's clamp, but it distorts my 3mm thick graphite mat by forcing it into the platter record label recess. This causes the mat to lift at the outer edges. I tried shimming the recess but it didn't work. Until I get a Nottingham table with 1" graphite mat, the periphery ring and weight does the job of keeping the LP flat on the mat.

hearingimpared

SCompRacer wrote: »

Another failed attempt to wear the grooves through the opposite side of an LP.:( Rest assured, I'm going to keep trying!:cool::D

Wood abounds!!!:D

hearingimpared

george daniel wrote: »

I believe that you are correct sir,, I just changed it to to "standard" and 100 ohms loading,,and I must admit that it does soun :)d much better,,I'll play with the other 2 loading options today,,I have it set a 60dB gain(normal),,thank you kindly Rich.

Just an FYI. My cartridge calls for 100 ohm loading. I did lots of experimenting with serveral different loads in my pre. I found it sounds best with an 88.88 ohm load. Tweeking to the extreme is my motto!;)

hearingimpared

SCompRacer wrote: »

Thanks for the kind words. The arm is a 12” Moerch DP6, which is also available with a 9” arm. I know how Joe feels about Gold :eek::p:D so I tried to get a Black or Chrome plated one, but this is what showed up used at a good price. It does have adjustable VTA and azimuth. Three other arm weights are available to allow proper compliance with available cartridges.

I also have Joe's clamp, but it distorts my 3mm thick graphite mat by forcing it into the platter record label recess. This causes the mat to lift at the outer edges. I tried shimming the recess but it didn't work. Until I get a Nottingham table with 1" graphite mat, the periphery ring and weight does the job of keeping the LP flat on the mat.

Hey man you gotta go with what works and the new flattening technologies appear to put less stress on the forcing down points on the record label. Are you going to keep The Clamp?

An after thought; I thought you found a way to use paper thin shimming in the cutout and it was successful in keeping the mat flat when the down pressure of the clamp was applied? My label cutout on my VPI TNT platter is pretty deep so I use the thickest delrin shim on it all the time. This is very interesting to me. When Carl and the rest us get together o brain storm a how to possibly get some more clamps made, I'll have to consider that the new after market mats may have a deeper cutout then what I had researched and tested back in the 80s. I want to cover all bases and now that things have changed so much over the past 25 years I'll have to adjust.

Thanks for the infor Richie.

SCompRacer

hearingimpared wrote: »

Are you going to keep The Clamp?

Yup.;) IIRC, we had a deal where you get right of first refusal if I wish to sell it.

hearingimpared

SCompRacer wrote: »

Yup.;) IIRC, we had a deal where you get right of first refusal if I wish to sell it.

Thanks for remembering Rich, also I don't have an aversion to gold!?! I don't know where you got that idea as I think gold tonearms are very, very sexy looking especially when the deck is high gloss black.

Quest for Sound sells some really beautifully crafted gold tonearms. While at one of his shows I heard one, don't remember the name off hand, but it was mounted on a Consoance TT and it looked beautiful and the TT/Tonearm/Cartridge combo was just heaven to listen to. I'm pretty sure it was the Moerch.

http://www.moerch.dk/

I believe the above is what was mounted on the Consonace TT here . . . the picture doesn't do it justice but it gives you the idea.

http://www.questforsound.com/analog/analog_consonanceLP1.htm

He has a couple of other gold tonearm offerings but I can't seem to find them right now.

SCompRacer

Sorry for the confusion about the Gold arm. Hard to tell from that pic what the arm is.

Cpyder

Referring back to Vinyl vs. CD, I've always heard that vinyl adds second order harmonic distortion which sounds "better" than odd-order distortion. Is this a property of the medium, the player, the tubed amplifiers, etc? Does digital add more odd or even order distortion?

headrott

george daniel wrote: »

Since I'm too lazy today to read the entire post,,I'll jump in with a question. I have been tweaking my vinyl rig,and here is where I am at.

CD's seem to have a better soundstage all around compared to MY vinyl rig.

Vinyl seems to have a better "tone" with less digital edginess.

I much prefer vinyl thru headphones than digital.

Vinyl sounds more realistic in my rig than cd.

This really is a very deep dark hole,,,I'm waaay past the slippery slope :rolleyes:

George, I agree with what you said here. Especially that vinyl has better tone and is more "realistic" than CD. Just keep heading down that slope, but with control (i.e. don't slide too fast:eek:).

Greg

hearingimpared

SCompRacer wrote: »

Sorry for the confusion about the Gold arm. Hard to tell from that pic what the arm is.

No problem Rich. That blurred pic of the Consonance TT doesn't have the gold tonearm on it and really doesn't do justice to the beauty of that table.

polkfan38

OK guys, I just had a great experience with a real two channel rig. It consisted of a Oppo 83, Ayre pre and a Cambridge amp. Speakers were Paradigm towers but I did not see the model. OH MAN! It was truly awesome! We played mainly classical music. Like most of you who started out, I now want to get rid of all I have and start over! I know my Infinity SL50s are not the greatest but Jesus! Even my Polk Monitor 40s don't even hold a candle to what I heard. No CD vs LP here. Just had a great learning experience!

Laz Baz

nooshinjohn wrote: »

Bingo! In a cdp, a processor needs to interpret the missing data between the 1's and 0's and LP's are the true sound as intended by the artist.

Laz Baz wrote:

If an analogue signal has to be converted to the digital format, in order to "replicate" the analogue form it would have to sample far more than the 44.1KHz, 96Khz and 192KHz-it would have to be infinte an numbers of sampling. To my basic knowledge the trace expalins it all on this web. Have a look.
http://electronics.howstuffworks.com/question487.htm

Laz Baz

F1nut wrote: »

You mean snap, crackle and pop? Yeah, it's definitely got those.

Laz Baz wrote:

Hi F1nut,
Have you heard DBX encoded vinyls and virgin 180/200gm vinylsand standard clean vinyls? Try a few and may be we can all learn to have a healthy appreciation and respect when other members express what they want to say.
Enjoy listening!

Laz Baz

heiney9 wrote: »

Wrong..............an analog waveform can never be "reproduced" exactly. That would involve an infinite number of samples which is impossible.

Nice try and thanks for playing

H9

Laz Baz wrote:

Agree with you heiney9. I have commented on F1nut's posting but can't find it now!

Interested parties just visit

hearingimpared

Keiko wrote: »

D@y@M, Rich, that is a beautiful table!

woodywoodywoodywoodywoodywoodywoodywoodywoodywoody

Yes indeed, that is my response every time I see Richie's turntable. I just love that gold tonearm!

hearingimpared

Laz Baz wrote: »

Hi F1nut,
Have you heard DBX encoded vinyls and virgin 180/200gm vinylsand standard clean vinyls? Try a few and may be we can all learn to have a healthy appreciation and respect when other members express what they want to say.
Enjoy listening!

Hmmmmm pot, kettle, black!?! F1nut apparently can't express what he wants to say and be respected!?!

BTW I am with you on DBX encoded vinyl as well as 180/200 gm pressings. I even have massed produced LPs that are incredible sounding, one that comes to mind is the 1974 pressing of Supertramp's "Crime of the Century" LP.

trans am

if cd is better than vinyl then why is "this recording is meant to be listened to on vinyl" is printed on the Compact Disc issues of Slint's legendary Spiderland album? If a recording is analog tape then it should best on vinyl. if it is recorded on some pro tools horse crap. then cd it is. My best analogy is why drink a beer out of a straw when you could just pound the F----ER?!!!

Scottinwa

I was in a high end stereo shop not long ago. Components ranged from modest to painfully expensive like Wadia and Krell. The owner had access to CD, dvd, blu ray, sacd and so on. I asked him what his favorite player was. He said "Pick a table. I'd rather have a $300 turntable with a $200 cart than a $20,000 cd player.". His demonstrations were on a couple pair of $9K plus speakers. On both, the vinyl versions of the music (Like Roxy Music and Some blue note jazz) sounded much more like 3-dimensional music to me than either his most expensive sacd or cd rig. None of the digital players had that liquid and dimensional midrange. It was a big temptation for me to get a table again, even a modest one like a pro-ject.

hochpt21

Scottinwa wrote: »

I was in a high end stereo shop not long ago. Components ranged from modest to painfully expensive like Wadia and Krell. The owner had access to CD, dvd, blu ray, sacd and so on. I asked him what his favorite player was. He said "Pick a table. I'd rather have a $300 turntable with a $200 cart than a $20,000 cd player.". His demonstrations were on a couple pair of $9K plus speakers. On both, the vinyl versions of the music (Like Roxy Music and Some blue note jazz) sounded much more like 3-dimensional music to me than either his most expensive sacd or cd rig. None of the digital players had that liquid and dimensional midrange. It was a big temptation for me to get a table again, even a modest one like a pro-ject.

If I may add to the temptation...Get One! :cheesygrin:

tonyb

We dug up another 2 year old thread to spout the merits of vinyl ?

I highly doubt anyone who has had a TT will argue the merits of it's sound quality. Where vinyl runs into trouble is on the other end, costs, storage of albums, cleaning, space, wives, kids, and so on. Not everyone has a dedicated room too. Plus everytime you play that album, it gets slightly worse. SACD or even computer files done right, played with tube gear, can sound darn close without the added headaches.