Toyota shuts down production and halts sales

AsSiMiLaTeD

I actually think the Popular Mechinacs article is a good read...

Roy Munson

One has to wonder why after tens of thousands of reported SUA events by many different manufacturers Toyota has been singled out by the media and internet fan boys of other makes.

Jstas

Roy Munson wrote: »

Another take on the recall.

A long article was here

http://www.popularmechanics.com/automotive/new_cars/4345385.html

Interesting article. But what was highlighted about 24,000 complaints is inconsequential.

This:

"...Still, even the best cars are far from perfect. And much of the outrage over Toyota's troubles seems based on the unrealistic expectation that cars should be infallible...."

is what I believe is the culprit behind the media circus. Even now, people in this thread are still extolling the virtues of Toyota and exclaiming how great they are. I don't think it's the owners holding up an imperfect transportation device to be perfect. I think it's the prevailing perception that Toyota is somehow on a higher level than other manufacturers that drives the owner's ideas that these are Toyotas and this shouldn't be happening.

Your highlighted numbers only state what has been said before. There's nothing special about Toyota. For some reason though, not necessarily based in actual factual information, Toyota seems to be held up as something special.

Kind of a disservice to Toyota IMO. Then again, Toyota has fed in to it themselves as well. So who is really to blame? It's hard to point a finger.

Jstas

Roy Munson wrote: »

One has to wonder why after tens of thousands of reported SUA events by many different manufacturers Toyota has been singled out by the media and internet fan boys of other makes.

"Internet fan boys of other makes" haven't singled anyone out. At least not that I have seen. Then again, I avoid places where know-nothing keyboard commandos riding brand bandwagons congregate so I guess I'm removed from such behavior.

What I have seen though is that every single news outlet from CNN Money down to Slate.com has picked up on this. Everyone has an opinion and the only ones saying that nothing is wrong and everything is a load of BS are Toyota owners.

Meanwhile, daily, new stories come out. Most are sensationalistic but a small few have actual facts and evidence in them that can be researched and corroborated. many of those articles have been posted in this thread because I find it interesting. Yet the Toyota owners, so quick to villanize other makes for supposed shoddy quality, do not hesitate to villanize those who would make factual claims that something is rotten in Japan and it's not the sushi.

You can't get away from this. You open cnn.com, it's home page news. It gets top billing on every automotive site as well. Go to any site dealing with the stock market and you see Toyota's value plummeting in the face of rising debt loads and financial losses. That's always accompanied by "expert analysis" as well. You turn on your local news and they have some kind of "human interest" piece about fiery death by Toyota. Even local newspapers still have headlines about it. You watch a show to be entertained and escape from it all and they make jokes about it. Everyone from Leno to The Daily Show has commented and even comics are making reference.

If any damage is coming from this it's because one, Toyota did a horrendous PR job with this. The other side of the coin is that Toyota was put on such a pedestal that the fall from grace seems more severe due to the pious height that everyone seems to have pushed them up to. The pedestal is undeserved as well as the lashings Toyota is taking. But just like everything else, people react to what they perceive rather than what is reality.

No, sorry, it's not the "fanboys" like you think. It's media saturation. Just because the Toyota fans can't handle the medicine they've been dishing out for years doesn't mean it's the "fanboys" doing it. The media has turned on it's own darling and has poisoned the house because of it. At this point, Toyota should deal with the Congressional hearings and just shut their mouths for a while. Roll with the punches and when the dust settles, stand up and get back to business.

Roy Munson

Interesting article. But what was highlighted about 24,000 complaints is inconsequential.

Your proclamation that 24,000 incidents of SUA by other manufacturers is "inconsequential" doesn't jive with your evisceration of Toyota for 1,800 "alleged" events and is a striking contrast to the "thuggery" in this thread and consistent with internet fan boyism/media hyperbole. Seems to me to be just a tad inconsistent.

Just saying.

Roy Munson

64???

Demiurge

Roy Munson wrote: »

One has to wonder why after tens of thousands of reported SUA events by many different manufacturers Toyota has been singled out by the media and internet fan boys of other makes.

Nobody is loving this more than our government, the UAW, and the dopes who hate whatever they choose not to own (some will admit it their biases, many won't). For competitors of Toyota and their shareholders, I can't blame them for kicking them while they're down. The less Toyota sells the better chance your company will get that business. One of the big problems in all of this is that our government is one of those competitors, which makes anything they say or do here suspicious because of the gigantic conflict of interest.

If we the people didn't own GM, this story would hardly be what it has been. Is it a nothing story? No, its certainly newsworthy, but its hardly worth as many news cycles as its been involved in thus far.

Jstas

Roy Munson wrote: »

Your proclamation that 24,000 incidents of SUA by other manufacturers is "inconsequential" doesn't jive with your evisceration of Toyota for 1,800 "alleged" events and is a striking contrast to the "thuggery" in this thread and consistent with internet fan boyism/media hyperbole. Seems to me to be just a tad inconsistent.

Just saying.

Dude, your backhanded comments are increasingly bothersome. You've also taken my comments out of context.

If you are going to try and slam me as a "fanboy" then man up and do it already. But wait, I'll go get a mirror to show you a "fanboy" as well. Otherwise, lose the "punk" attitude and leave the underhanded personal attacks out of it.

I stated that the 24,000 incidents were inconsequential because, your article and the highlighted blurb had nothing to do with the point you were seemingly trying to make. Unless I missed it. But when you post nothing of your own thoughts preferring instead to let the thoughts of someone else speak for you, you do risk misinterpretation.

I have not offered my thoughts on Toyota beyond what is in relation to the articles. So where your accusations are coming from is escaping me.

I'm sorry that you obviously own a Toyota. That was your decision, not mine. I don't care what you own. If you do own a recalled Toyota, I suggest you get it fixed as soon as possible. I'm not going to mock you or laugh at you over it. At the same time though, others like you attempt to make me feel bad for my choice of vehicle purchase on a regular basis. Why? Over nothing more than your dislike for me. Yet if I return fire and rebut, I'm told that I'm "over-reacting". But now it's ok for you to do the same? Even though I have done my damnedest not to antagonize anyone's fragile ego here? Yeah, right, that's rich! Now though, the tables have been turned and the news is a pretty big deal for many people. But I really don't see these "fanboys" you speak of riding Toyota owners. Even at the automotive sites this isn't happening. Yet here I am being accused of doing so when I have yet to single out any Toyota owner.

You keep posting articles for a "different take" or "another take" but it is quite clear that you haven't read any of the previous articles posted because several say the same thing. I don't know how it's "different" or what you are trying to accomplish but you're acting like someone has made a personal attack at you because the news keeps saying your Toyota is going to lead you to a fiery death.

Bottom line is that you don't like it. Why? I dunno. Someone challenged your fragile little world and all of a sudden the Toyota recalls are the harbinger of the apocalypse? Maybe you have a relative who is a staunch supporter of another brand and they won't let you forget this because you mocked them for years every chance you got? Maybe you just can't stand the fact that the people outside the media don't gives a rat's butt about Toyota and you think that people posting articles and other stuff, even satire, about the whole pile of absurdity is an affront to your sensibilities? I dunno. Really, I dunno. But you should shut up, take your punches and get over it.

I wasn't even the one who started the thread.

AsSiMiLaTeD

Demiurge wrote: »

Nobody is loving this more than our government, the UAW, and the dopes who hate whatever they choose not to own (some will admit it their biases, many won't). For competitors of Toyota and their shareholders, I can't blame them for kicking them while they're down. The less Toyota sells the better chance your company will get that business. One of the big problems in all of this is that our government is one of those competitors, which makes anything they say or do here suspicious because of the gigantic conflict of interest.

If we the people didn't own GM, this story would hardly be what it has been. Is it a nothing story? No, its certainly newsworthy, but its hardly worth as many news cycles as its been involved in thus far.

Ding Ding Ding, we have a winner!!!

Jstas

Demiurge wrote: »

Nobody is loving this more than our government, the UAW, and the dopes who hate whatever they choose not to own (some will admit it their biases, many won't). For competitors of Toyota and their shareholders, I can't blame them for kicking them while they're down. The less Toyota sells the better chance your company will get that business. One of the big problems in all of this is that our government is one of those competitors, which makes anything they say or do here suspicious because of the gigantic conflict of interest.

If we the people didn't own GM, this story would hardly be what it has been. Is it a nothing story? No, its certainly newsworthy, but its hardly worth as many news cycles as its been involved in thus far.

Well, the government was corrupt in handling this issue at least 8 years ago so there's nothing new there.

The life of this news story has been amazingly stubborn as well. One doesn't even have to look for it. Just go to any news aggregator and it's on the first page or two. It's pathetic at this point and there are many driving factors from Toyota's perpetual PR blunders to the Nanny Government with Chicken Little Syndrome.

You couldn't write comedy this entertaining!

polktiger

Roy Munson wrote: »

Your proclamation that 24,000 incidents of SUA by other manufacturers is "inconsequential" doesn't jive with your evisceration of Toyota for 1,800 "alleged" events and is a striking contrast to the "thuggery" in this thread and consistent with internet fan boyism/media hyperbole. Seems to me to be just a tad inconsistent.

Just saying.

My take - the number would be inconsequential since the real story is that Toyota's **** actually stinks...it does not smell like fresh cut roses like Consumer Reports and other "assigners of quality" publications have duped the public into thinking.

Toyota has had quality problems in the past, but they just kept racking up quality award after quality award while quality issues were being largely ignored. A large portion of Toyota drivers buy Toyotas becuase of "quality" and higher resale value, which is a byproduct of a high quality perception.

All this publicty over the "startaling revaltion" that Toyota has quality issues then catches publications like JD Powers and Consumer Reports with their pants down. In JD Powers case they appear to be looking at how their survey samples failed to detect an issue. In Consumer Reports case they have now had to confess that they have been giving Toyota a pass for several years when it comes to testing "quality" becuase they "felt Toyota had earned it."

Is the Toyota story at this point overblown? - sure (unless they find that all these issues are really linked to a software or shielding problem in the computer). But an overblown story like this is what happens when the perception of quality is a key reason why you are selling so many cars. Look at how long the Tiger Woods affair thing ran...There is a lot of benefit to being on the pedistal, but there is a lot to lose if something gives you a bump.

This is just my take, I can not scientifically prove any of this to you. Its just why this seems to be such a story to me...Toyota's **** stinks...just like GM, Ford, Honda, BMW, Chrysler, VW, and the others. They all make pretty good cars, but they are not perfect.

Roy Munson

Dude, your backhanded comments are increasingly bothersome. You've also taken my comments out of context.

If you are going to try and slam me as a "fanboy" then man up and do it already. But wait, I'll go get a mirror to show you a "fanboy" as well. Otherwise, lose the "punk" attitude and leave the underhanded personal attacks out of it.

Continued long rant here..

I wasn't even the one who started the thread.

Good lord John, you seem to have a very intense interest in the recall and it's obvious who has been driving this thread! [you've posted 65 times] lol All I did was to post a couple of opposing view points and you go off like a rocket accusing me of all kinds of things including apparently according to you, that I called/implied you're a fanboy. Well I never said you were a fanboy but if the shoe fits. lol

Bottom line is that you don't like it. Why? I dunno. Someone challenged your fragile little world and all of a sudden the Toyota recalls are the harbinger of the apocalypse? Maybe you have a relative who is a staunch supporter of another brand and they won't let you forget this because you mocked them for years every chance you got? Maybe you just can't stand the fact that the people outside the media don't gives a rat's butt about Toyota and you think that people posting articles and other stuff, even satire, about the whole pile of absurdity is an affront to your sensibilities? I dunno. Really, I dunno. But you should shut up, take your punches and get over it.

ROTFLMFAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

My God you are hilarious, all of that insulting innuendo because I posted an article you can't seem to handle that asks the question why internet fanboys and the media are frothing at the mouth over the recall. If you fall into that category it's not for me to say but your ridiculous and dare I say paranoid rant is indicative of that particular affliction.

Dude, you're killing me. lolol

Again, if the shoe fits?????????

concealer404

Give it up Roy. You won't "win." Did you really want the silver star anyways?

Just remember, it's NOT ok for you to have an opinion.

Jstas

Roy Munson wrote: »

My God you are hilarious, all of that insulting innuendo because I posted an article you can't seem to handle

Can't seem to handle? What world are you living in? I've posted several articles that state THE SAME THING. I've even said it myself several times!

Roy Munson wrote: »

that asks the question why internet fanboys and the media are frothing at the mouth over the recall. If you fall into that category it's not for me to say but your ridiculous and dare I say paranoid rant is indicative of that particular affliction.

Dude, you're killing me. lolol

Again, if the shoe fits?????????

Your posts are passive aggressive and so is your "counting" that no one else seems to have been able to figure until now as well. But, no, you aren't accusing me of anything, are you? It's all fun and games, isn't it?

Sorry, I don't find your posts helpful at all. They are redundant and purely meant to antagonize whether you want to admit it or not. I'm not the only one who thinks so either. Besides, this isn't the first time **** like you have called me a "fanboy". Even though I can speak at length on ANY manufacturer, you geniuses harp on one over and over again. Then you call me a "fanboy" because I respond, using your manufacturer of choice.

Do I think the Toyota thing is funny? Yes, it's flippin' hilarious! Why? Not because I hate Toyota. I don't. I find the whole thing ironic and I am taking great pleasure at watching all the Toyota "braintrust" heads explode over the idea that Toyota is just another car company and not deities pooping out beige lumps of iron designed to appeal to everyone.

Beyond that, it sucks. Because there is a company that has done well for itself being dragged through the mud. Seems like every time a company in this country does well and is successful, it's punished for it's success. You name it and it's either been raked over the coals by the government on one witch hunt or another or it's been blasted in the press by the lemming-like media or even worse, it "enjoys" a very unfair and undeserved popular opinion.

I hope Toyota recovers. They used to build stuff I wanted to buy. MR2's, Supras, even the Celica All-Trac/GT-Four. But now, I see soulless jellybean appliancemobiles. Not interested at all. I would like to see them build fun stuff again. But I certainly hope the asinine reputation they have enjoyed does not recover because it was not wholly undeserved but quite inflated as well. When big bubbles like that burst, they make a mess. We've seen several examples in the past two decades of that.

Jstas

concealer404 wrote: »

Give it up Roy. You won't "win." Did you really want the silver star anyways?

Just remember, it's NOT ok for you to have an opinion.

Why is it I'm not allowed to call this yahoo what he is but he can get away with such antagonizing posts and it's all just dandy?

PhantomOG

Jstas wrote: »

Sorry, I don't find your posts helpful at all. They are redundant and purely meant to antagonize whether you want to admit it or not.
.........
Do I think the Toyota thing is funny? Yes, it's flippin' hilarious! Why? Not because I hate Toyota. I don't. I find the whole thing ironic and I am taking great pleasure at watching all the Toyota "braintrust" heads explode over the idea that Toyota is just another car company and not deities pooping out beige lumps of iron designed to appeal to everyone.

And yours are redundant and purely meant to antagonize, but you admit it so its ok?

You say you like watching their heads explode but you sure seem to be upset with the results. Obviously your continued and repetitive posts to this thread are getting just the reaction you want, it just seems really odd to me how you express your pleasure when you get your way.

Jstas

PhantomOG wrote: »

And yours are redundant and purely meant to antagonize, but you admit it so its ok?

You say you like watching their heads explode but you sure seem to be upset with the results. Obviously your continued and repetitive posts to this thread are getting just the reaction you want, it just seems really odd to me how you express your pleasure when you get your way.

Again, for those of you who don't get it. Underhanded comments about "fanboys" and questioning of not only character but motivation are personal attacks.

Posting news stores both for and against aren't.

When those who are upset/offended by news stories start attacking me, that annoys me. I am not the one finding the problems nor am I the one holding Toyota to the fire.

The first time the floormat BS came out, I laughed at the absurdity of it and then laughed some more at the absurdity of the fix. It didn't make any sense and seemed like a big whoop over nothing. The Toyota faithful jumped my junk. I was labeled with all kinds of names from "fanboy" to "hater" because I dared fly in the face of popular perception. I did not mock anyone but Toyota for what then seemed like a lame attempt to cover up that they didn't have clue one as to what was going on. In retrospect, they really didn't. I didn't bash any Toyota owners nor did I call them out by name. Yet I was blasted as if I did. Then I was ridiculed for every fault Ford ever had because I own a Ford. 'Cause that makes sense, to judge people by the car they drive. :rolleyes:

This time, because of the stink that was made over something so silly, I decided to not even post the news story. Instead, one of my detractors did. In an effort to show just how pervasive the problem actually was, I left my opinion out of it and just posted news stories with quick blurbs about what they were about. As I saw new, pertinent and informative stories, I posted them. I engaged in discussion with some about what was actually going on and things remained civil. I stroked everybody's ego and used the kid gloves.

And now, here I am, being accused yet again of being a "fanboy" and having my motives questioned and my character put under scrutiny. Why? I honestly don't know. Nearest I can figure is that many of you are stewing in you boots right now because you want so desperately to get one over on me and you can't. Hey, a win's a win, right? Therefore you would rather try to cut me down and discredit me instead of addressing the topic at hand. Those are personal attacks and that's when things get ugly.



When I say I like watching their heads explode I am not talking about the people at Toyota. I am talking about the owners and supporters who staunchly support Toyota no matter what. They harp on and on about the quality and how much Toyota cares. Now that reality is beating them in the face with a dead horse, they don't know what to do. They get mad at the government and accuse them of going on a witch hunt. They are incensed at the media who has latched on like a rabid wolverine and has yet to let go. They lash out at those who say "I told you so" and question everything about them from intelligence to sexual orientation. Lastly, they refuse to accept anything, jam their heads in the sand, say Toyota will recover, it isn't as bad as it seems and we'll all get past this. Do I enjoy it? Yes I do because for years I've been catching crap just because of the vehicle I own. It's not just from Toyota owners or people here for that matter. It's people everywhere. So don't think you're special. Why do I take pleasure in it? Because I'm one of the few who looks past the smoke and mirrors. I'm one of the few who has seen the truth first hand and spoke at length many times about the false "truths" that others speak of. My pleasure isn't at the expense of those unfortunate enough to own a Toyota with problems. My pleasure is in my personal vindication that I was right. It makes me happy to see that the truth is out. Is it blown out of proportion? I dunno. It's hard to say. The guise of Toyota quality was such a large bubble for so long that now that it's burst it's hard to see who is really covered by the damage and who is just awash in effluence.

I have not sat here and said "I told you so". Others have. I have not sat here and made silly jokes. Others have. Some I found funny so I posted them. Lastly I have not sat here and come down on Toyota for anything it doesn't deserve. I am ticked off that they weaseled an NHTSA investigation and then covered it up. I'm also ticked off that they are lying to the American public about stopping production when they were supposed to be being concerned about customer safety. Especially when there is documented evidence that the contrary was clearly the case. I, as an American citizen who uses the same roads that these unsafe Toyotas are traveling down, have every right to be concerned and outraged. I, as an American tax payer whose tax dollars fund organizations like the NHTSA, have every right to be outraged that Toyota broke the rules, exploited a connection in the NHTSA and used an unfair advantage to get out of a massive recall years ago. For those things alone Toyota deserves to be standing in front of Congress to answer why.

But, I have maintained neutrality through all of this posting relevant positive and negative articles as I find them. Hell, it could be argued that I have performed a public service since so many of you apparently own Toyotas with new and improved fiery death options.

If you are going to tell me I'm a "fanboy" and question my motivation and character over something so stupid then you'd better come with some hard evidence. If you are going to try to go toe to toe with me on anything automotive then you'd better bring every reference you can find 'cause after your accusations of such a personal nature I am going to find every way I can to lay waste to your argument. Otherwise, I'm going to chalk up everybody's salty attitudes to the fact that you don't agree with me and for some reason, that bothers you. Somehow though, that makes me a hypocrite because in the past, I haven't agreed with you and I voiced my opinion about it. I don't exactly see how that logic works but some how, in your minds, that makes me wrong and you right and that's all that matters. Right?

Sorry I didn't drink the Toyota Kool-Aid. I don't even like Kool-Aid. I preferred Hawaiian Punch.

Now, back to reality.

Roy Munson

Besides, this isn't the first time **** like you have called me a "fanboy".

Well, I never called you a fanboy!!! What I did was refer to internet fanboys and the media. YOU, in your hyper-sensitive paranoid way then assumed I was referring to you. In fact I never directly replied to you until post number 276 in which I pointed out your hypocrisy about the 24,000 other recalls regarding SUA that you characterized as "inconsequential"! Where was your outrage when those other cars were recalled for SUA..Huh? ROTFLMFAO!

Yes, your bias and hatred are showing John. You lost the debate when you called me names, for that I now own you!

You can't handle me or the articles I posted so you go "postal" on me and call me an ****. lmao

Well, since you have decided to take the low road in this thread and turn it into a name calling contest I guess I'll just take your information about Toyota taking a hit on resale and consider this a good time to buy a Toyota at a greatly reduced price. Of course, I could buy a Ford but who's **** dumb enough to do something that stupid...right John? lol

btw..you are now on my assclown list. You are now free to continue your biased crusade against Toyota without me.

70???

ROTFLMFAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

concealer404

Ford Exploders LOL!

I saw THREE Chevy Trailblazers on a transport truck yesterday. All THREE of them had suffered massive fires in the back half. Coincidence?

The new Civic sucks.

Toyotas are death machines.

Audi = unintended acceleration

BMWs are ALL driven by ****.

Vipers are for people with small genitals.

VWs ALL have terrible electronics.




They all suck. Get over it, people.

BRB, gonna go buy another Toyota.

nooshinjohn

concealer404 wrote: »

I saw THREE Chevy Trailblazers on a transport truck yesterday. All THREE of them had suffered massive fires in the back half. Coincidence?

Actually no, they are filming Death Race 3000 in Indianapolis right now. The plot involves rogue Camry's being driven at high unintended speeds into the back of TrailBLAZERS:rolleyes:

concealer404

nooshinjohn wrote: »

Actually no, they are filming Death Race 3000 in Indianapolis right now. The plot involves rogue Camry's being driven at high unintended speeds into the back of TrailBLAZERS:rolleyes:

Ah ok... got it! When does the movie come out, sounds awesome!


BTW: I was serious about the Trailblazers, even if the rest were a bit tongue-in-cheek.

I've also seen 2 of them in junkyards with massive fire damage in the back half in recent months. Hrmmm....

Roy Munson

concealer404 wrote: »

Give it up Roy. You won't "win." Did you really want the silver star anyways?

Just remember, it's NOT ok for you to have an opinion.

Yeah, I hear you but what the hell. Watching John meltdown just because I had a different take on the recall was interesting to say the least and a bit disturbing also. But the name calling and whatnot are only a reflection on his inability to discuss the issue in an adult manner. I've seen many threads he posts in turn bad when he seems to think the world is against him. [he really comes off as paranoid] Perhaps he's had a bad day, maybe his dog crapped on his rug..who knows what his mental state is. But one thing is for sure John has a problem, he seems incapable of discussing anything and then out of the blue he'll accuse you of posting something about him even when you've never directed a specific post to him! Oh well, I'll just put him on ignore and consider it for what it is.

nooshinjohn

^^^I have experienced it from him before. I dismiss it to OKCD (Obsessive Keyboard Commando Dis-order) I guess he has been helpful to many in the past, but by looking through the last 500 posts, I just don't see how.

concealer404

I prefer to just not see his last 500 posts these days. Makes it easy, except when one of you jerks quote him.

Roy Munson

And now, here I am, being accused yet again of being a "fanboy" and having my motives questioned and my character put under scrutiny. Why? I honestly don't know. Nearest I can figure is that many of you are stewing in you boots right now because you want so desperately to get one over on me and you can't. Hey, a win's a win, right? Therefore you would rather try to cut me down and discredit me instead of addressing the topic at hand. Those are personal attacks and that's when things get ugly.

This would be funny if it weren't so miserable and pathetic.

Get help bro..

concealer404

I CAN find humor in that. The humor in that apparently Toyota's woes gives him a "win," but he has no vendetta against toyota.

I believe i may have just twitched. Please pass the smelling salts.

Roy Munson

nooshinjohn wrote: »

^^^I have experienced it from him before. I dismiss it to OKCD (Obsessive Keyboard Commando Dis-order) I guess he has been helpful to many in the past, but by looking through the last 500 posts, I just don't see how.

Yeah, if you have a differing opinion he calls you an ****. He is most likely an internet bully that has other issues that manifest themselves in the form of having to be right and not being able to discuss anything in an adult fashion without the name calling. He sees the world as being against him or in this case the forum. It's a pity really..oh well.

Roy Munson

concealer404 wrote: »

I CAN find humor in that. The humor in that apparently Toyota's woes gives him a "win," but he has no vendetta against toyota.

I believe i may have just twitched. Please pass the smelling salts.

No, you shouldn't find humor in the disabled.

wz2p7j

Roy Munson wrote: »

Well, I never called you a fanboy!!! What I did was refer to internet fanboys and the media. YOU, in your hyper-sensitive paranoid way then assumed I was referring to you. In fact I never directly replied to you until post number 276 in which I pointed out your hypocrisy about the 24,000 other recalls regarding SUA that you characterized as "inconsequential"! Where was your outrage when those other cars were recalled for SUA..Huh? ROTFLMFAO!

Yes, your bias and hatred are showing John. You lost the debate when you called me names, for that I now own you!

You can't handle me or the articles I posted so you go "postal" on me and call me an ****. lmao

Well, since you have decided to take the low road in this thread and turn it into a name calling contest I guess I'll just take your information about Toyota taking a hit on resale and consider this a good time to buy a Toyota at a greatly reduced price. Of course, I could buy a Ford but who's **** dumb enough to do something that stupid...right John? lol

btw..you are now on my assclown list. You are now free to continue your biased crusade against Toyota without me.

70???

ROTFLMFAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Assclown list? Is that, like, a forum setting or something? If so, please tell me how to access it as I need to add some people! :D Just kidding. :)

Hey, my whole take on the Toyota thing is they are getting everything they deserve. For so long the media and quality pundits have been giving Toyota a free ride.

I used to work in GM quality. A few years back Toyota released a model that immediately made Consumer Reports recommended list. They never even tested the car. When we questioned them, they responded that it was just based on reputation. The we (GM) released a model that was built at the top plant in the US for quality (JD Powers Survey) and Consumers Reports wouldn't recommend it. Reason? They hadn't tested the car.

As part of my job in the quality department, I also worked closely with GM recall people. We actively evaluated our products in the field and stepped up to it if we had a problem. Toyota benefited while we got bashed in the press for so many recalls. We had a few scraps of evidence that Toyota wasn't stepping up to some issues. The current firestorm affirms that we were right.

Finally, I worked with dealership surveys that were conducted by independent vendors. Toyota had far and away the worse dealerships to work with from a customer standpoint. Cocky, arrogant, don't need ya type people. No thanks.

How many people say GM builds bad cars that "no one wants to buy?" Whose this "no one?" The company is still the second largest car company in the WORLD>

How many people say "GM builds look alike cars?" I've actually heard that recently. Jeez have you looked at any GM cars since 1984?

It's very ironic Saturn was shut down because all of their product was critically acclaimed and was of high quality. The product just wouldn't sell mostly based on perception of GM.

I left GM for a lot of reasons. It was a very mismanaged company with a lot of problems. Recent product was not one of the problems. Anyone close to the industry will tell you GM's problem is not the product, it's the perception of the product.

Chris

Serendipity

wz2p7j wrote: »

Anyone close to the industry will tell you GM's problem is not the product, it's the perception of the product.

Chris

Agreed!

GM's product quality isn't bad at all, it's the perception of the product.