Bi-Wire yes or no

124

Comments

  • concealer404
    concealer404 Posts: 7,440
    edited December 2009
    sTiLlLeArNiNg wrote: »
    lol Just like an Emotiva amp! :p

    Buy decent cable's and be done with it :cool: The Canare 4s11 is a great option at a great price as is the Belden 5000 :)

    Better cable's does = better sound but i think once you get into the $200+ PER cable realm you get to the point of diminishing return's and great marketing

    Just my $0.02

    PS That's a Canadian $0.02 hehehe

    :o

    You get to the point of diminishing returns the second you hook up ANY system, even if it's pure crap with radioshack cables.

    You just went from NO music, to music. Anything else from there will not garner the same improvement, at any price.

    It's up to you how far you want to go. As heiny9 said, it's subjective. If you can't afford an upgrade, then you can't afford an upgrade, so you won't see a return.
    I don't read the newsssspaperssss because dey aaaallllllllll...... have ugly print.

    Living Room: B&K Reference 5 S2 / Parasound HCA-1000A / Emotiva XDA-2 / Pioneer BDP-51FD / Paradigm 11se MKiii

    Desk: Schiit Magni 2 Uber / Schiit Modi 2 Uber / ISK HD9999

    Office: Schiit Magni 2 Uber / Schiit Modi 2 Uber / Dynaco SCA-80Q / Paradigm Legend V.3

    HT: Denon AVR-X3400H / Sony UBP-X700 / RT16 / CS350LS / RT7 / SVS PB1000
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  • hearingimpared
    hearingimpared Posts: 21,136
    edited December 2009
    Cogito wrote: »
    Like virtually all manufacturers do. However, some hype borders on science fiction while some hype is based upon more objective points.

    I have no issue with the hype. My problem is with outright lies.

    And you determined they were outright lies how?
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  • hearingimpared
    hearingimpared Posts: 21,136
    edited December 2009
    hearingimpared wrote: »
    It is not hype, it is personal experience of which you haven't provided any insight into yours. You just keep bashing better speaker wire. What rig are your running? What ICs and speaker wire have you tried? I'm betting you are buying into the "hype" that Rodger Russel spews.

    Cogito why aren't you answering the above questions.
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  • treitz3
    treitz3 Posts: 19,185
    edited December 2009
    Hey Joe, this one's for you bro'!

    http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?t=93997 :D
    ~ In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence. ~
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  • BlueFox
    BlueFox Posts: 15,251
    edited December 2009
    Experiment time.

    Today I am upgrading my HT from Orchard Supply Hardware 12 gauge copper twisted to Mapleshade Clearview Double Helix with Plus upgrade speaker cables. This will be a good experiment for two reasons. First, some people say multi-channel HT does not matter for good sound. Two, some people say wire does not make any difference.

    So, if later tonight I hear a difference then two misconceptions will be put to rest, or I will have spent $1100 on 5 speaker cables for no reason.

    To be honest, I know these cables work since I had a pair on my 2 channel system, and they made an incredible improvement over the hardware store copper, and I expect to hear the same improvement in the HT. So, yes, there is a bit of built-in bias in this experiment, but it is a bias based on experience, and not based on reading an article from the Internet. The only question is the amount of improvement that will result.

    I recently upgraded the 5 analog ICs between the pre/pro and the amp, and that upgrade resulted in more detail being heard in areas such as leaves rustling, glass breaking, footsteps, etc. Hopefully, the speaker cables will expand on that, and more.

    This is also a Polk Audio experiment since the HT has 4 LSi15s, and a PSB Synchrony One center. The PSW1000 sub runs off the front L/R pre-outs via Radio Shack RCAs.

    http://www.mapleshaderecords.com/audioproducts/doublehelixspeakercable.php
    Lumin X1 file player, Westminster Labs interconnect cable
    Sony XA-5400ES SACD; Pass XP-22 pre; X600.5 amps
    Magico S5 MKII Mcast Rose speakers; SPOD spikes

    Shunyata Triton v3/Typhon QR on source, Denali 2000 (2) on amps
    Shunyata Sigma XLR analog ICs, Sigma speaker cables
    Shunyata Sigma HC (2), Sigma Analog, Sigma Digital, Z Anaconda (3) power cables

    Mapleshade Samson V.3 four shelf solid maple rack, Micropoint brass footers
    Three 20 amp circuits.
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  • vc69
    vc69 Posts: 2,500
    edited December 2009
    Cogito wrote: »
    Like virtually all manufacturers do. However, some hype borders on science fiction while some hype is based upon more objective points.

    I have no issue with the hype. My problem is with outright lies.

    So, what are you listening to again? What gear and wire are you using? What experience are speaking from?

    You are a complete bag of wind to me until you post your system specs.

    Why can't/won't you do that?

    Simple question. Can you accommodate?
    -Kevin
    HT: Philips 52PFL7432D 52" LCD 1080p / Onkyo TX-SR 606 / Oppo BDP-83 SE / Comcast cable. (all HDMI)B&W 801 - Front, Polk CS350 LS - Center, Polk LS90 - Rear
    2 Channel:
    Oppo BDP-83 SE
    Squeezebox Touch
    Muscial Fidelity M1 DAC
    VTL 2.5
    McIntosh 2205 (refurbed)
    B&W 801's
    Transparent IC's
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  • kolyan2k
    kolyan2k Posts: 259
    edited December 2009
    ben62670 wrote: »
    IC's make more of a difference than speaker cables. My buddy and I used some AR IC's and we thought something was very wrong. I put my cables in the loop and the SDA came back, and the highs returned.

    +2 ICs suffer from noise and need proper shielding, speaker wire are not.
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  • kolyan2k
    kolyan2k Posts: 259
    edited December 2009
    Cogito wrote: »
    So what actually happens during this burn-in? Do different cables require different burn in methods or time? Do you use music, test tones, white noise, etc?

    during the burn-in outer shield of the cables burns ? no ? or maybe time after time your copper cables release some sort of chemical compound that makes speakers sound better.........

    i cant believe suckers fall for this myth....who ever thinks that cables burn-in must be stupid as a rat........oh wait......rats are actually smart.
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  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,203
    edited December 2009
    ^^^ Ah, Troll Camp must have just graduated some new idiots!
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul!
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  • kolyan2k
    kolyan2k Posts: 259
    edited December 2009
    this was funny

    http://thepreacher.wordpress.com/2007/04/29/audiophiles-cable-burn-in/
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  • concealer404
    concealer404 Posts: 7,440
    edited December 2009
    Oh FFS, not THAT site again.
    I don't read the newsssspaperssss because dey aaaallllllllll...... have ugly print.

    Living Room: B&K Reference 5 S2 / Parasound HCA-1000A / Emotiva XDA-2 / Pioneer BDP-51FD / Paradigm 11se MKiii

    Desk: Schiit Magni 2 Uber / Schiit Modi 2 Uber / ISK HD9999

    Office: Schiit Magni 2 Uber / Schiit Modi 2 Uber / Dynaco SCA-80Q / Paradigm Legend V.3

    HT: Denon AVR-X3400H / Sony UBP-X700 / RT16 / CS350LS / RT7 / SVS PB1000
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  • Mon40CSMM10
    Mon40CSMM10 Posts: 161
    edited December 2009
    tonyb wrote: »
    One day,the wife asked me to re-arange the room, I had my favorite speaker cable,Reality cables hooked up to my Focus 20/20's, but they were too short for the new arrangment. Went to Home depot to grab a spool of 12 ga. After the first 60 seconds I realized what a waste of money I just spent, soundstage shrunk,highs were shrill,low end not even close and the mids were soft...

    The only pure objective way to determine the problem was only the cables would have been:

    1. Test the Reality Cable with the same room arrangement (except, as mentioned, the cables were too short).
    2. Test the Home Depot cable with the room reverted back to the old arrangement.

    Otherwise, the room rearrangement could have been a problem, but the only cable used to determine there was a problem was the Home Depot cable.
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  • kolyan2k
    kolyan2k Posts: 259
    edited December 2009
    kolyan2k wrote: »
    this was funny

    http://thepreacher.wordpress.com/2007/04/29/audiophiles-cable-burn-in/

    oh the other hand scratch that.........

    new business in town.....I will burn your cables for you the professional way for $20 bucks a set. sorry no website yet, but i do have paypal !
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  • hearingimpared
    hearingimpared Posts: 21,136
    edited December 2009
    treitz3 wrote: »
    Hey Joe, this one's for you bro'!

    http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?t=93997 :D

    Thanks Tom.
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  • hearingimpared
    hearingimpared Posts: 21,136
    edited December 2009
    kolyan2k wrote: »
    this was funny

    http://thepreacher.wordpress.com/2007/04/29/audiophiles-cable-burn-in/

    I can read too. I can also try different cables and dicern the difference between the cable being burned in over time. It's a shame that you are suckered in by what other people opinions are on the subject without trying it on your own. Sheep!
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  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,203
    edited December 2009
    kolyan2k wrote: »
    oh the other hand scratch that.........

    new business in town.....I will burn your cables for you the professional way for $20 bucks a set. sorry no website yet, but i do have paypal !

    Why would I pay you when I can do it myself? I'll pay myself $20.

    Nice try though :rolleyes:

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul!
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  • hearingimpared
    hearingimpared Posts: 21,136
    edited December 2009
    kolyan2k wrote: »
    oh the other hand scratch that.........

    new business in town.....I will burn your cables for you the professional way for $20 bucks a set. sorry no website yet, but i do have paypal !

    No thanks you won't do it right because of an internet article. You will probably just send them back just as you received them.
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  • kolyan2k
    kolyan2k Posts: 259
    edited December 2009
    hearingimpared wrote: »
    No thanks you won't do it right because of an internet article. You will probably just send them back just as you received them.

    but thanks to a thing called "placebo effect" i can assure you that most people will be 100% satisfied
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  • hearingimpared
    hearingimpared Posts: 21,136
    edited December 2009
    kolyan2k wrote: »
    but thanks to a thing called "placebo effect" i can assure you that most people will be 100% satisfied

    Wow you read about that too. What a genius.
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  • concealer404
    concealer404 Posts: 7,440
    edited December 2009
    kolyan2k wrote: »
    but thanks to a thing called "placebo effect" i can assure you that most people will be 100% satisfied

    80% of the time it works every time?

    Where's the post where you tell ME that I won't be able to hear a difference in a double blind test on MY system?
    I don't read the newsssspaperssss because dey aaaallllllllll...... have ugly print.

    Living Room: B&K Reference 5 S2 / Parasound HCA-1000A / Emotiva XDA-2 / Pioneer BDP-51FD / Paradigm 11se MKiii

    Desk: Schiit Magni 2 Uber / Schiit Modi 2 Uber / ISK HD9999

    Office: Schiit Magni 2 Uber / Schiit Modi 2 Uber / Dynaco SCA-80Q / Paradigm Legend V.3

    HT: Denon AVR-X3400H / Sony UBP-X700 / RT16 / CS350LS / RT7 / SVS PB1000
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  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,203
    edited December 2009
    concealer404 wrote: »
    Where's the post where you tell ME that I won't be able to hear a difference in a double blind test on MY system?

    It's coming.............some people can Google faster than others.

    Wait for a link..............it'll be here soon from K

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul!
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  • kolyan2k
    kolyan2k Posts: 259
    edited December 2009
    ^ nothing is coming i am done wasting time. always the same people in all thread across the forum advocate cable myth bull.
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  • hearingimpared
    hearingimpared Posts: 21,136
    edited December 2009
    kolyan2k wrote: »
    ^ nothing is coming i am done wasting time

    Thank goodness the air will cool off now.
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  • concealer404
    concealer404 Posts: 7,440
    edited December 2009
    heiney9 wrote: »
    It's coming.............some people can Google faster than others.

    Wait for a link..............it'll be here soon from K

    H9

    Well i'll beat him to the punch.


    K, you're more than welcome to come out here, or fly me wherever to perform a cable double blind test on me. But you won't take action on that. Because you don't want your precious double blind test to prove you wrong, since you believe that test to be the last word.


    Damn... looks like i was late.
    I don't read the newsssspaperssss because dey aaaallllllllll...... have ugly print.

    Living Room: B&K Reference 5 S2 / Parasound HCA-1000A / Emotiva XDA-2 / Pioneer BDP-51FD / Paradigm 11se MKiii

    Desk: Schiit Magni 2 Uber / Schiit Modi 2 Uber / ISK HD9999

    Office: Schiit Magni 2 Uber / Schiit Modi 2 Uber / Dynaco SCA-80Q / Paradigm Legend V.3

    HT: Denon AVR-X3400H / Sony UBP-X700 / RT16 / CS350LS / RT7 / SVS PB1000
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  • treitz3
    treitz3 Posts: 19,185
    edited December 2009
    kolyan2k wrote: »
    ....Always the same people in all thread across the forum advocate cable myth bull.
    It goes both ways. It's always the same thing with the naysayers as well. However, only one group actually knows and enjoys the audible truth. :D

    Everyday.
    ~ In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence. ~
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  • kolyan2k
    kolyan2k Posts: 259
    edited December 2009
    and ps......no offense. everyone is entitled to his own believes.
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  • concealer404
    concealer404 Posts: 7,440
    edited December 2009
    kolyan2k wrote: »
    ^ nothing is coming i am done wasting time. always the same people in all thread across the forum advocate cable myth bull.

    I'm sorry... does it harm you personally that i hear a difference?


    I don't give a crap if you hear a difference yourself or not, but don't even try to come in here and tell me that i don't hear a difference. You can **** to your little placebo effect and Roger Russel all you want. I really don't care. You aren't going to convert anyone.
    I don't read the newsssspaperssss because dey aaaallllllllll...... have ugly print.

    Living Room: B&K Reference 5 S2 / Parasound HCA-1000A / Emotiva XDA-2 / Pioneer BDP-51FD / Paradigm 11se MKiii

    Desk: Schiit Magni 2 Uber / Schiit Modi 2 Uber / ISK HD9999

    Office: Schiit Magni 2 Uber / Schiit Modi 2 Uber / Dynaco SCA-80Q / Paradigm Legend V.3

    HT: Denon AVR-X3400H / Sony UBP-X700 / RT16 / CS350LS / RT7 / SVS PB1000
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  • hearingimpared
    hearingimpared Posts: 21,136
    edited December 2009
    kolyan2k wrote: »
    and ps......no offense. everyone is entitled to his own believes.

    Yeah right and I paraphrase, " all suckers," "dumb as rats!"
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  • treitz3
    treitz3 Posts: 19,185
    edited December 2009
    kolyan2k wrote: »
    and ps......no offense. everyone is entitled to his own believes.
    That's "beliefs" there big guy. I thought you were done with this thread? You know, wasting time and all that?
    ~ In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence. ~
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  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,203
    edited December 2009
    kolyan2k wrote: »
    and ps......no offense. everyone is entitled to his own believes.

    I think you mean "beliefs" and you called anyone who believed in cable burn in and other cable properties "suckers and are as dumb as rats"

    Nice back peddle, but you can STFU!

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul!
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