Bi-Wire yes or no

hearingimpared

Zitro wrote: »

Not everybody needs 8 feet of speaker wire per speaker...I like buying by the foot because it allows you to buy just what you need for your rig. Everyone's setup is positioned differently, so why not just buy what you need and not what the company says you need? For my setup, I'd only need 1 pair of 4 ft. and one pair of 7 ft. So that's $32.40 for all the wire I need...so why would I want to spend $60+ for a 50 foot spool when I wouldn't use half of it?

After reading an article in the Mapleshade records catalog about shorter speakers wire runs less than 8' sounding like **** I did my own experiments and found it to be true. I know it goes against logic but I found 8' wires sounds much, much better than 6' for 4' wires. Just my experience, YMMV.

Cogito

Skip the biwiring, buy some cheap 14 ga. lamp cord and use the money saved for upgraded speakers or something else that actually makes an audible difference.

Cogito

hearingimpared wrote: »

That is true though only after the cable has been burned in.

So what actually happens during this burn-in? Do different cables require different burn in methods or time? Do you use music, test tones, white noise, etc?

Zitro

hearingimpared wrote: »

After reading an article in the Mapleshade records catalog about shorter speakers wire runs less than 8' sounding like **** I did my own experiments and found it to be true. I know it goes against logic but I found 8' wires sounds much, much better than 6' for 4' wires. Just my experience, YMMV.

Hmmm..that's interesting if it is true. Has anyone else heard about this? I wonder why that is...My runs have usually been shorter than 8', being only a 2 channel rig.

Either that or you're just **** with me lol.

Cogito

ben62670 wrote: »

So far from the truth it isn't funny.
A: Good cables can be had at a decent price
B: Good cables tend to take longer to burn-in.
C: Gauge is much less important than you think. My AQ Type 4's are around 17ga.
Construction and material are way more important than Ga.
E: Home depot wire sucks bad. It will most likely turn green, and belongs in the dumpster
F: You said "seems that gauge matters more than brand or material and stranded over solid core" Sounds like you don't have much experience with better gear.

Keiko said it best, and I second his post.

A: Yes, zip/lamp cord can be bought cheaply.
B: Another unsubstantiated audio myth.
C: You are right on this one. I use 10 ga. Monster cable that I bought way back in the early eighties because I fell for the marketing hype. The ONLY plus is that it looks cool.
Another myth. At the frequencies the speaker cable transmits, there is ZERO audible difference. Solid, stranded, copper, silver, etc. Makes no audible difference.
E: Unless you are in a humid or damp climate, the Home Depot wire should work just fine. If by chance, it does start to corode, throw it away and buy more. You'll still be saving a fortune compared to the "exotics".
F: I would suggest that he not so easily beguiled by marketing hype and voodoo science.

Sebthesound "M"

A Message for Keiko, Why Avoid the Monster Cable ???
I'ts not good?? a got monster cable for my cd player and my tuner, it do the job really well

Hi everybody!!! I'm new Here!!

F1nut

Zitro wrote: »

Not everybody needs 8 feet of speaker wire per speaker...I like buying by the foot because it allows you to buy just what you need for your rig. Everyone's setup is positioned differently, so why not just buy what you need and not what the company says you need? For my setup, I'd only need 1 pair of 4 ft. and one pair of 7 ft. So that's $32.40 for all the wire I need...so why would I want to spend $60+ for a 50 foot spool when I wouldn't use half of it?

You have much to learn, but unlike cogi, I believe you have an open mind and no wax plugging up your ears.

Audio wire is a component just like an amp or CDP.....you get what you pay for.

Zitro

F1nut wrote: »

You have much to learn, but unlike cogi, I believe you have an open mind and no wax plugging up your ears.

Audio wire is a component just like an amp or CDP.....you get what you pay for.

I'll admit I still have a lot to learn; I'm relatively new to audio and the NAD equipment is my first "real" system. I have played around with several components and speakers, but have not had access to different wire to see for myself if it really makes a difference. It's so expensive, I don't want to buy it just to try it if it really doesn't make a difference. That's why I asked about the Canare; if its good cable, at that price I wouldn't mind buying some to see how much of a difference it makes over my cheapo wire. If it does, i'll buy into the "audiophile" cable thing and upgrade to a better wire.

That's part of the reason I'm here on these forums; I'm 20 and pretty new to this, and I know there are plenty of people who know a lot more than I do and I want to learn.

F1nut

I want to learn

Yes, I picked up on that. Audiogon is a great place to shop for all things audio. You can buy used cable there and if you don't like it, turn around and sell it for no loss.

There's also a site called UsedCables.com or something close to that where you can rent different cables to try.

hearingimpared

Zitro wrote: »

Hmmm..that's interesting if it is true. Has anyone else heard about this? I wonder why that is...My runs have usually been shorter than 8', being only a 2 channel rig.

Either that or you're just **** with me lol.

Just so you know, I used Monster Cable Phase Aligned Time Coherent speaker cable to run those comparisons. I'm not a fan of Monster Cable either but back in the day those that I mentioned were damned good speaker cables. They DO NOT compare in the least to MIT speaker cable. However I think MITs are out of you price league right now so Canary and AQs are a good bet.

It is refreshing to see a new member here who is willing to learn with an open mind.

ewbuster

I look through the polk fourms to learn and get advice. I hate going to the big name stores. All they want to do is sell you their "expensive" cable, monster cable, which really is not as good as other cables.

halo71

Cogito wrote: »

A: Yes, zip/lamp cord can be bought cheaply.
B: Another unsubstantiated audio myth.
C: You are right on this one. I use 10 ga. Monster cable that I bought way back in the early eighties because I fell for the marketing hype. The ONLY plus is that it looks cool.
Another myth. At the frequencies the speaker cable transmits, there is ZERO audible difference. Solid, stranded, copper, silver, etc. Makes no audible difference.
E: Unless you are in a humid or damp climate, the Home Depot wire should work just fine. If by chance, it does start to corode, throw it away and buy more. You'll still be saving a fortune compared to the "exotics".
F: I would suggest that he not so easily beguiled by marketing hype and voodoo science.

Can you list what you have for a rig? I just gotta know.

Cogito

F1nut wrote: »

Yes, I realize that any wire or cable product can be broken down into a price per foot. However, I prefer the way that most, if not all, the better audio cable companies price their cables. For example, a pair of 8 foot speaker cables from XYZ Cable Company cost $1000.00. Why the need to break it down to a price by the foot...that's silly.

Well, it certainly puts it into perspective. I think it's silly that anyone would spend $125.00/ft for "speaker wire".

Don't buy the hype!

Krazyz1

Personally I run 14ga O2 free braided strand and bi-wired on my Polk RTiA9's.Maybe wer'e all crazy but my friends imeadiatly heard the difference next time they stopped over , and didn't tell anybody what I did.

tonyb

Cogito wrote: »

Well, it certainly puts it into perspective. I think it's silly that anyone would spend $125.00/ft for "speaker wire".

Don't buy the hype!

We think it's silly that anyone would spend more to buy anything other than a Yugo,after all, a Yugo and a Corvette both get you from point a to point b.:rolleyes:

hearingimpared

Cogito wrote: »

Well, it certainly puts it into perspective. I think it's silly that anyone would spend $125.00/ft for "speaker wire".

Don't buy the hype!

It is not hype, it is personal experience of which you haven't provided any insight into yours. You just keep bashing better speaker wire. What rig are your running? What ICs and speaker wire have you tried? I'm betting you are buying into the "hype" that Rodger Russel spews.

superjunior

Cogito wrote: »

Well, it certainly puts it into perspective. I think it's silly that anyone would spend $125.00/ft for "speaker wire".

Don't buy the hype!

dude your throwing rocks at a hornet nest...run! :eek:

hearingimpared

superjunior wrote: »

dude your throwing rocks at a hornet nest...run! :eek:

That's his MO plus being the saviour bully of Emoettes.

vc69

Keiko wrote: »

Great! Another crusader. Just what we need.

I wanna know what Cogito is listening to with regard to gear. Until that happens, his opinion is absolutely worthless.

C'mon man! Show us what you got!

Zitro

What about speaker sensitivity, as in the db ratings? Would a more sensitive speaker benefit more from a higher end cable? Would something relatively low end like my M30's really pick up a difference, even with my NAD gear, or would an Audio Physic speaker see a much more significant improvement with better wire?

Zitro

And whatsup with cheap wire like this?

http://www.amazon.com/Acoustic-Research-PR220-Speaker-Copper/dp/B00008VSKW/ref=sr_1_17?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1262024037&sr=8-17

concealer404

Zitro wrote: »

What about speaker sensitivity, as in the db ratings? Would a more sensitive speaker benefit more from a higher end cable? Would something relatively low end like my M30's really pick up a difference, even with my NAD gear, or would an Audio Physic speaker see a much more significant improvement with better wire?

The sensitivity is really a separate beast from wiring. Sensitivity has to do with efficiency, ie: how many db per watt. It's more to do with power rather than sound quality. (That's grossly simplified of course)

I think you'd hear more difference in ICs than speaker wire, but good wire will never hurt.

concealer404

Zitro wrote: »

And whatsup with cheap wire like this?

http://www.amazon.com/Acoustic-Research-PR220-Speaker-Copper/dp/B00008VSKW/ref=sr_1_17?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1262024037&sr=8-17

It's exactly that. Cheap wire. It'll get the job done, but won't be ground breaking in any way.

ben62670

AR sucks real bad.

concealer404

ben62670 wrote: »

AR sucks real bad.

Hey now... i run AR speaker wire. Upgraded from 14g Monster XP wire to AR 10 gu-

Wait. Hrmmm... interesting conundrum, here.

No, but really. I'm running this:

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=109-064

I'm pretty happy with it for the time being. Nice and full sounding compared to that monster crap i had. The last word in performance? Definitely not, but i'd say it was well worth the money.

Zitro

concealer404 wrote: »

The sensitivity is really a separate beast from wiring. Sensitivity has to do with efficiency, ie: how many db per watt. It's more to do with power rather than sound quality. (That's grossly simplified of course)

I think you'd hear more difference in ICs than speaker wire, but good wire will never hurt.

I knew sensitivity was efficiency; I need something relatively efficienct as the NAD is only 50 wpc. Sounds more powerful than it is though . Thought that maybe a sensitive speaker would be more sensitive to the differences a good cable would provide compared to zip chord. Doesn't make much sense now that I think about it, but it did at the time lol.

I can't get any wire too thick or any terminations really, as I'm running my PSW10 through the speaker ins/outs, since the NAD has no SW output. I hate those damn spring terminals. I might just get some Canare and try it out, unless I come across a good deal on used wire. Really curious to see what kind of a difference it makes.

P.S.- I apologize to the OP, because I just realized his thread went completely off topic lol.

Cogito

F1nut wrote: »

Audio wire is a component just like an amp or CDP.....you get what you pay for.

Hardly true. There are many audio products that offer better performance at lower cost. I'm sure YOU could think of a few.

But hey, $1000.00 speaker cables have to sound better than $100.00, right?

Zitro

Cogito wrote: »

Hardly true. There are many audio products that offer better performance at lower cost. I'm sure YOU could think of a few.

But hey, $1000.00 speaker cables have to sound better than $100.00, right?

"Better performance" is highly subjective; it depends on the individual preferences of one person and the intended use of a product. I like my $200 M30's over my $600 Klipsch SF-1 towers. Why? Because I listen mostly to music, and the Klipsch's are a HT speaker with little midrange. For a HT user, the Klipsch would be much more suitable for their purpose. And some people just like some speakers' sonic character over others. There is no overall "best" speaker, just the one that sounds best for you. I like the sound of my $500 NAD integrated just as much as some $1k amps; others prefer the $1k amps sonically. Some prefer the $1k+ amps simply out of pride of ownership, and there is nothing wrong with that. Our ears and brains all process sound in different ways, and to each his/her own.

Cogito

superjunior wrote: »

dude your throwing rocks at a hornet nest...run! :eek:

I know it, but it pains me to see people get suckered into the marketing hype. Simply buy speakers wires with sufficient gauge for the length used and use well made terminations.

BlueFox

Cogito wrote: »

But hey, $1000.00 speaker cables have to sound better than $100.00, right?

Yes. That is a reasonable assumption. If you have decent equipment, and functional hearing.

I know my $400 dollars cables sounded better than the original hardware store 12 guage stranded copper. Then I upgraded to $825 cables and they sound better than the $400 dollar cable. Primarily, I have a better low end response, and the highs are clear, but not as bright with the $400 cables. Later I might try something even better, but at this point I am very happy with the overall results.