55 lbs. of Magic or Misfortune.......

Dawgfish

Actually Ted, I may have distracted the FED-EX guy here yesterday. I got him going on Sea Island and he just went off. That was about 10:15 here at the jobsite about 2 miles from your hood. You can blame it on me if that eases things at home, LOL. If I see him this morning I'll make sure he gets the message, or I'll distract him and keep him here until you can arrive. All I have to do is bring up the "Buffy" and "Biffs" from Sea Island conversation again and he'll be here for at least 20 minutes. It's great actually, you should witness it. BTW, I'm still on for tomorrow. I'm looking forward to it.

reeltrouble1

cool beans, yea we are on and Clyde is coming as well, we will have a time of it and get the shootout started, just talked to the scout no sighting yet...............if he dont deliver I'm going to "Biff" his **** so hard he's gonna have to turn around to piss with his "Buffy".

RT1

reeltrouble1

OK, I can quit obsessing, its here, I saw it, I touched it and I felt it...........I cleaned it, its pretty, now its sitting coming up to room temperature, then I will turn it on, so assuming it works...........the shootout begins tomorrow at high noon......yea I know, pics or didn't happen and all that..........

stay tuned........glass or sand or both, I dunno.

btw will someone clue trietz in cuz he's stumbling around in the dark with mary jane and a shot of Wild Turkey, were talking sources bro.

RT1

NJPOLKER

In a way I hate to have to ask this question. What does glass, sand or both actually mean? I continue to learn about all this stuff. I figure glass = tubes and sand = ???????
I do know what trietz/mary jane/wild turkey amounts to, a birth in about 9 months!!!

reeltrouble1

well, as always I cannot just give you a straight up answer, did you know RT also means Random Thoughts???, I mean inside this Audio Rabbit Hole everything is somehow.......skewed differently....so it's sort of about silicon chips, of course silicon is sand, well, sand is a part of the chip per say, a knee bone connected to the thigh bone thing......and you gotta have the sand transistors to get anthing out of the sand that sounds any good they even have different ones some are bi-polar, not the sick kind of bi-polar but some sandmen think bi-polar is sick, not sic, some are mosfet, or fets, but of course this is all just fast and down and dirty and for fun and bit of nonsense, you got to go read the white paper stuff..........of course glass is as you say tubes, but very special glass, well what it contains is very special, not the glass molecules per say, it's a glass container but very cool looking and some have cool drawings on them, some have big nipples, all have curves, but still it's glass the medium which contains the important metal parts which control the fire, which are the electrons, which are full of molecular magic, now there is a whole audio dialect then subsets of dialects for boards and then sub-subsets for board members, to say nothing of inner circle secret hand shakes, smoking jackets and tobacco pipes, all very Angel and Demon National Treasure stuff..........you got that........so sometimes sand is just sand and glass is just something you just look through but only sometimes.

so in the end
this is why

TUBES RULE

RT1

madmax

But, I thought glass was made out of sand?

vc69

madmax wrote: »

But, I thought glass was made out of sand?

Touche'

george daniel

like sand thru the hourglass,, thats the secret entry way,, to the riddle of course.Many have tried,,only a few suceed

megasat16

reeltrouble1 wrote: »

well, as always I cannot just give you a straight up answer, did you know RT also means Random Thoughts???, I mean inside this Audio Rabbit Hole everything is somehow.......skewed differently....so it's sort of about silicon chips, of course silicon is sand, well, sand is a part of the chip per say, a knee bone connected to the thigh bone thing......and you gotta have the sand transistors to get anthing out of the sand that sounds any good they even have different ones some are bi-polar, not the sick kind of bi-polar but some sandmen think bi-polar is sick, not sic, some are mosfet, or fets, but of course this is all just fast and down and dirty and for fun and bit of nonsense, you got to go read the white paper stuff..........of course glass is as you say tubes, but very special glass, well what it contains is very special, not the glass molecules per say, it's a glass container but very cool looking and some have cool drawings on them, some have big nipples, all have curves, but still it's glass the medium which contains the important metal parts which control the fire, which are the electrons, which are full of molecular magic, now there is a whole audio dialect then subsets of dialects for boards and then sub-subsets for board members, to say nothing of inner circle secret hand shakes, smoking jackets and tobacco pipes, all very Angel and Demon National Treasure stuff..........you got that........so sometimes sand is just sand and glass is just something you just look through but only sometimes.

so in the end
this is why

TUBES RULE

RT1

So, you are saying Sand is GOLD!

....Glass is Made From Sand. So are Tubes and All Little Precious Things what Ticks inside everyday Electronics... So, sand is what makes this world goes round, sort of like Gold.

Sand Absolutely Rules!

You know, the sort, from sand to sand...from tubes to dust kinda things?

Jetmaker737

reeltrouble1 wrote: »

well, as always I cannot just give you a straight up answer, did you know RT also means Random Thoughts???

...so sometimes sand is just sand and glass is just something you just look through but only sometimes.

so in the end
this is why

TUBES RULE

RT1

That was awesome! A little psychedelic trip wrapped in an internet post! :cool:

hearingimpared

reeltrouble1 wrote: »

well, as always I cannot just give you a straight up answer, did you know RT also means Random Thoughts???, I mean inside this Audio Rabbit Hole everything is somehow.......skewed differently....so it's sort of about silicon chips, of course silicon is sand, well, sand is a part of the chip per say, a knee bone connected to the thigh bone thing......and you gotta have the sand transistors to get anthing out of the sand that sounds any good they even have different ones some are bi-polar, not the sick kind of bi-polar but some sandmen think bi-polar is sick, not sic, some are mosfet, or fets, but of course this is all just fast and down and dirty and for fun and bit of nonsense, you got to go read the white paper stuff..........of course glass is as you say tubes, but very special glass, well what it contains is very special, not the glass molecules per say, it's a glass container but very cool looking and some have cool drawings on them, some have big nipples, all have curves, but still it's glass the medium which contains the important metal parts which control the fire, which are the electrons, which are full of molecular magic, now there is a whole audio dialect then subsets of dialects for boards and then sub-subsets for board members, to say nothing of inner circle secret hand shakes, smoking jackets and tobacco pipes, all very Angel and Demon National Treasure stuff..........you got that........so sometimes sand is just sand and glass is just something you just look through but only sometimes.

so in the end
this is why

TUBES RULE

RT1

My brain just reset itself several times.:D

treitz3

What I read out of that is that TUBES STILL RULE!!!!

Even though I can't figure out an amp from a CDP. :eek:

reeltrouble1

well gents the shootout has begun, a couple good polkies were on board to help, yea, I know..where are pics......well, I am not finished yet, initial impressions are important but still just initial impressions, still neither unit is a slouch, they are different no doubt, both good but different, in a blind test one Polkie identified the correct unit 12 times out of 13 times, the other 11 out of 13.........I am awaiting there written material thoughts as well, so carry on ye merry men (and ladies) RT1 is headed deep into the HOLE, to a few dark places only hinted at by hidden gray layered shadows, I will most likely make it back, albeit I expect unshaven and quite unclean, but you never know for sure about holes, especially Rabbit Holes......might be after New Year as this is going to take a while, maybe well after that time.....until then...........

enjoy the tunes

oh and for Tom so you dont have to muddle through this strange thread........

Its a Musical Fidelity SACD and an Esoteric DV-50 universal disc player......you know...2 channel stuff............one tubed the other sand

for Mega

No--Sand is Sand

Gold is Gold, Gold is an element....see periodic table Au, elements are fundamentals, within fundamentals lie truths...........which is why TUBES RULE, (but for sources ????) ahhh that is question, now that is the question, kind of like Pi ain't Pie yet both are found in circles.

RT1--can you hear me????

F1nut

I think he may have already gone too deep into the HOLE.

megasat16

reeltrouble1 wrote: »

for Mega

No--Sand is Sand

Gold is Gold, Gold is an element....see periodic table Au, elements are fundamentals, within fundamentals lie truths...........which is why TUBES RULE, (but for sources ????) ahhh that is question, now that is the question, kind of like Pi ain't Pie yet both are found in circles.

To RT1,

It's good to know that you are seeing a bit clearer now! Since we are talking about the fundamentals, Sand is the fundamental of Glass, Glass is the fundamental of Tubes.

So, Sand is the Fundamental of Tubes and it's gotta be a Grand Diddy of all things Tubes! Look at it other way!

Sand is shapeless so it's Neutral! Pie is rounded, Tubes are rounded, and they both offer a Warming feel when you go down to touch them! If I have to choose, I will be feeling warm with a pie than a Tube.

dorokusai

I still haven't figured out what kind of drug helps me make sense of Ted's posts.

vc69

I am thinking perhaps mescaline/peyote or shrooms. Nothing synthetic.

Just a thought.

hearingimpared

dorokusai wrote: »

I still haven't figured out what kind of drug helps me make sense of Ted's posts.

I thought it was just me.

george daniel

Ted is the Cap'n Kirk of audio, boldinligy going where no man has gone before,and returning,if at not least momentarily,to speak prophectic units of though,to those who understand.:)

janmike

Hey Ted, have you completed the first round the the preliminary analysis?

I think Ted was a philosophy major back in the 70's. I remember those days, well some of them anyway.

F1nut

Hey Ted, have you completed the first round the the preliminary analysis?

He has come out of the hole, but won't be in front of a computer until next week, maybe the week after.

tonyb

Ted is still feeling the effects of the 'shrooms that grace the rabbit hole. Last seen chasing the computer around the house because as Ted put it..." it's faster than a sommabitch and has an **** like a 10 year old boy."

Poor Ted......

megasat16

I am sure Ted is overloaded with questions.....so, here is a little something to make it easy for him.....

Don't worry whether it's Sand or Tube! The real question to ask is Do you like what you hear or Do you like what you don't hear?

headrott

I am wiped for audio funds till next year......
RT1

Luckily that's only a matter of days away:)

madmax

Pics! We want pics!

tonyb

Man,Ted really fell down that rabbit hole and someone knocked over the ladder. Did I miss the review somewhere or is Ted taking his sweet time ?

danz1906

madmax wrote: »

Pics! We want pics!

Ditto!

reeltrouble1

Well I do have to say it was an interesting if not at times frightfull two weeks of going deep into the rabbit hole with gear and music, I would dissapear for hours and hous, ocassionally some food was left at the door, the plate would leave wiped clean lest a few small remaining bones............I suppose there is a danger of going in and never coming out........ever, its about the music afterall and there is so much to wander into along so many paths...

So The Contenders...............

Musical Fidelity kW500 SACD player

Retail Cost 7000.00

Dimension 19 x 17 x 6.6
Weight 43 lb. unboxed

The unit upsamples at 192 kHz using a 1kHz tone, audio ouput is 2.3 VRMS.
Jitter is a very low 150pS. A 24bit Delta-Sigma DAC is utilized with separate stages for valve and solid state outputs. 8x oversampling. Single ended inputs/outputs.

There are two audio outputs one tubed the other solid state. I did listen to each, however, for this player I prefered the tube output and comments made are for this output.

Unit plays SACD and Redbook. Offers Digital Outputs coaxial and optical.

Esoteric DVD-50

Retail Cost 5500.00

Dimension 17.5 x 13.6 x 6.5
Weight 46 lb unboxed

A Universal multi-channel SACD/CD/DVD-A/DVD-V player. As with the MF 8x oversampling. This player offers user switchable FIR and upsampling RDOT low-pass filters with three outputs for Redbook (no SACD as it is bitstream).

Output levels were 2.34 at 1kHz for single ended and 5.1 RMS for balanced outputs. I used the balanced outputs for all listening sessions.

The BAT preamp allowed for the difference in output between the Esoteric and Muscial Fidelity players to be adjusted so the players could be compared on the fly with the remote. Afterall, louder certainly does not mean better.

So How did they Sound...........

It should be noted that the Musical Fidelity was received back from the factory with an upgraded DAC chip set, new tubes, and transport so some break in may be evident, the unit did continue to have improved SQ as the hours rolled on.

There was no doubt that the two units each had their own signature sound.
The Esoteric unit was immediately identified as a beast, its build quality the better of the two, Esoteric thoughtfully includes three self leveling attached isolation feet, two in the front and one midway in the back, the case is well machined and all internal parts are thought out and well shielded. The ability to filter the sound of Redbook discs with the RDOT and FIR choices to what you like is a definete plus with this source player.

When listening to Springstein's Live New York SACD there was an immediacy brought forth with the music that made the heart pound harder, the bass was also strong and deep, on several occaions I felt it move through me and fully vibrate the listening room chair. The Esoteric had plenty of punch yet handled transient dynamic sounds with speed and delicacy. Micro Dynamics were presented from a black background and well handled being neatly kept in place. Pace and timing were right on. The soundstage was slightly wider than the MF and it had more three dimensional depth........so all was great..........yea, but.......after extended listening sessions of 4-5 hours fatigue did set in, the highs began to extend beyond bright and the gain needed to be reduced, things just got a bit edgy.

Continuing On.........

The Musicial Fidelity kept its overall presentation a bit more polite yet without question more musical, I suppose one could say laid back but I would not. Yes, high treble was slightly rolled off and the stage was a bit flatter but in a very nice way. Imaging was superior with the MF with each instrument easily identifed in the stage. The music just poured from the Sound Labs in a way that washed over me and let me just listen without wanting to do anything else. Bass was still well extended but not as present as with the Esoteric. Vocals floated and you could hear the strings of instruments bend and vibrate the sounds of fingers moving over frets or deep breaths for vocal passages were well flushed out.

In the end I would say the Musical Fidelity was the better all around player when compared with benchmarks being musical machines and ease of listening. However, the Esoteric is a fine player and will remain in the rack for DVD-A as well as other discs that need its more forward presentation and punch. Esoteric has contiuned on with there SACD development well beyond this unit and I could certainly see myself moving up the chain within there line of players.

Note that I have also included a shot of the Rega P-25 turntable, why......well it may just be better than both the digital sources......it just may be, but then that is another tale yet to be discovered and unfolded along my journey's path.

In Heavy Rotation

Alison Krause SACD--Live with Union Station
Live in New York SACD--Bruce Springstien
Elton John SACD--Elton John
Open SACD--Cowboy Junkies
Couldn't Stand the Weather SACD--Stevie Ray Vaughn
The Window SACD--David Elias
Lets Get Lost SACD--Terrrance Blanchard
I'll Play the Blues For You SACD--Albert King
Hot House Flowers SACD--Wynton Marsellies
The Blues--George Faber
Attack of the Killer V--Lonnie Mack
Abbey Road--The Beatles
RagPickers Dream--Mark Knopfler
Two Men with the Blues--Willie Nelson and Wynton Marsellies

RT1

madmax

Good review! Given what I read I believe I would like the sound of the MF better. You might be asking a lot out of the Rega to better it I think. But then again, synergy could kick you over the top. I guess "better" would be defined as different in a more musical way.

hearingimpared

Great review Ted. I do believe you will be going back and forth in your opinion of what sounds better, vinyl no MF, no MF, no vinyl, no Esoteric, no vinyl ad nausium.:D