Cable Break-in/adjustment period
Comments
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The reason I started this thread was when I read this information on Audioquest's web site I knew some will find it educational, I did.
If it's not true, how could it possibly be educational? -
It is true information that is the benefit.
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NJ POLKER
I am a material scientist for 40 years and I'm not commenting on what you hear.
The "Cable facts" you quote are not cable facts or science in any way shape or form.
"The dielectic changes of a charge" This is not true. A dielectis is a non conducting material or insulator. What property are you suggesting changes with charge. How does this change the dielectic material? What are the units of this change? We are talking very low voltages and low frequincies here.
I have no idea what "anemic forced two demensional effect" is but I think you or some one else is pulling your leg.
This pure and simple BS science.
How come dialectric material changes in capacitors? -
hearingimpared wrote: »How come dialectric material changes in capacitors?
The type of dielectic material does effect it's capacitance. That and the geometry and many other issues will determine the capacitance.
But I never heard of dielectic material changing it's electric properties with or without the small signals of audio. That makes no sense to me. It's like saying that the resistance of speaker wire changes if the wire isn't used for a week.
That makes no sense also. Now the resistance will change a very small amount based on the temperature of the wire and that can be measured but I strongly doubt anyone could hear that differnce with a 20 degree temperature change.
If you hear a differnce it's not because of the dielectic changing electrical or material properties in your cable. -
It is true information that is the benefit.
It is completely false, do a little research. It's amazing that you guys will believe every thing you read in a marketing blurb, but completely ignore decades of research in engineering, physics, and human perception. -
It is completely false, do a little research. It's amazing that you guys will believe every thing you read in a marketing blurb, but completely ignore decades of research in engineering, physics, and human perception.
Ditto x10 -
It is completely false, do a little research. It's amazing that you guys will believe every thing you read in a marketing blurb, but completely ignore decades of research in engineering, physics, and human perception.
William, completely false? Decades of research? So you see it one way and others see it another. Do you really think that the vast number of cable/wire manufactures just dream this stuff up? No research? Your thoughts and in-site on the subject is wrong as usual. -
[QUOTE=NJPOLKER; Do you really think that the vast number of cable/wire manufactures just dream this stuff up? No research? Your thoughts and in-site on the subject is wrong as usual.[/QUOTE]
I believe that cable manufacturers and also many of the magazine writers do in fact make this crap up. This maybe a reason why the audio industry is in the **** shoot. I base this on my 40 years of working in the materials field and the unlimited greed potential of people. I think the recent economic history will bear out the greed theory, that people will say anything if it can make them more money.
If some one starts talking about materials and science and they omit the units to measure the terms I start to smell BS. Plain and simple, science without units is BS or speculation or ignorance IMHO.
"anemic forced two demensional effect" What are the units?
Nature is such that F=ma. -
Do you really think that the vast number of cable/wire manufactures just dream this stuff up? No research? Your thoughts and in-site on the subject is wrong as usual.
Yes, they do make it up, do you have any relevant information to the contrary? Besides marketing blurbs? Please point me to the research, I'll be more than happy to admit I'm wrong. The wire manufacturers can't be the only ones aware of these magical properties if it's true. -
I do not believe everything I read, but I do notice differences in what I hear.
I have tried out a wide variety of cables now and have some I prefer.
Why?
Because they sound better to me. Some are $100, some are $20.
Am I going to go out and spend thousands on cables for my 500 dollar system?
No.
What most naysayers don't realize is that if they don't hear the difference, it is either because they are not discerning listeners/can't hear a difference, or their system's components are not sensitive enough to take advantage of the benefits a high end cable makes.
I would know which category the naysayers were in if they posted their system in the showcase.
Those who don't know, don't know they don't know and quote those that support their ignorance.
I know I hear differences in components and cables.
I also know that my system sounds different in different parts of the room. but the parts and components are the same and will test the same regardless where. Does this mean the room doesn't make a difference? Heat, humidity, smoking, cats and armpit odor all change the quality of experience we have when listening
Now I don't know if the OP's original quote from AQ is true, but it did explain what I clearly heard. If there is another reason for this, I am all ears (hahaha), but for now, I am willing to accept that we know as much about electricity as we do about how a plant grows, or human nutrition......which is not everything.......there are some things that we don't know......science is progressing but is far from a complete understanding of the universe.
So keep searching and experimenting with an open mind and don't be so scared of things that challenge your schema. -
I think the recent economic history will bear out the greed theory, that people will say anything if it can make them more money.
Now this is a statement I fully support.I am a material scientist for 40 years and I'm not commenting on what you hear.
Being a scientist in the field, please comment on what you hear. -
clarknova_666 wrote: »I do not believe everything I read, but I do notice differences in what I hear.
I have tried out a wide variety of cables now and have some I prefer.
Why?
Because they sound better to me. Some are $100, some are $20.
Am I going to go out and spend thousands on cables for my 500 dollar system?
No.
What most naysayers don't realize is that if they don't hear the difference, it is either because they are not discerning listeners/can't hear a difference, or their system's components are not sensitive enough to take advantage of the benefits a high end cable makes.
I would know which category the naysayers were in if they posted their system in the showcase.
Those who don't know, don't know they don't know and quote those that support their ignorance.
I know I hear differences in components and cables.
I also know that my system sounds different in different parts of the room. but the parts and components are the same and will test the same regardless where. Does this mean the room doesn't make a difference? Heat, humidity, smoking, cats and armpit odor all change the quality of experience we have when listening
Now I don't know if the OP's original quote from AQ is true, but it did explain what I clearly heard. If there is another reason for this, I am all ears (hahaha), but for now, I am willing to accept that we know as much about electricity as we do about how a plant grows, or human nutrition......which is not everything.......there are some things that we don't know......science is progressing but is far from a complete understanding of the universe.
So keep searching and experimenting with an open mind and don't be so scared of things that challenge your schema.
This topic isn't on whether you hear a difference between 20 and 100 dollar cables.
This "research" is being used to sell cables worth thousands of dollars a foot in some instances. And, as William stated, if what these cable companies say is true, surely some independent researcher or non-affiliate would have research on this, and it would be taught at a university level... But, it isn't. Nor is it found in any textbook or research papers. -
This topic isn't on whether you hear a difference between 20 and 100 dollar cables.
This "research" is being used to sell cables worth thousands of dollars a foot in some instances. And, as William stated, if what these cable companies say is true, surely some independent researcher or non-affiliate would have research on this, and it would be taught at a university level... But, it isn't. Nor is it found in any textbook or research papers.
ohhhhhh -
Well - that's the case with all advertising.
I miss-understood.
I thought you were saying there was not a difference between cables because it wasn't proved scientifically.
New Question:
If you can hear a difference, but there is no science to back it up, is there a difference?
Cpyder - I will ask you the same question as W_M2.......Do you hear a difference?
and then to everyone:
If you hear a difference, and you like what you hear, does it matter what the science or advertising says? -
Are you two guys trying to say that cables/wires or sound does not change after a period of time? That what this thread is about. Its a simple thing, either it does or it does not. Many here or their can hear a difference, for what ever reason you do not and thats too bad for you.
bikezappa have you ever worked with the exact wire used to manufacture cables? -
clark, I think they are both hearingimpared, sorry Joe.
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Yes, they do make it up, do you have any relevant information to the contrary? Besides marketing blurbs? Please point me to the research, I'll be more than happy to admit I'm wrong. The wire manufacturers can't be the only ones aware of these magical properties if it's true.
How do you know? You make alot of statements with zero back-up other than your opinion. And you know about the saying regarding opinions. -
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Being a scientist in the field, please comment on what you hear.[/QUOTE]
I was just trying to avoid a pissing contest and trying not to comment on what he hears. If he hears a difference it's not because of the bogus science of dielectics as explained by the cable company. That's all I meant. -
This topic isn't on whether you hear a difference between 20 and 100 dollar cables.
This "research" is being used to sell cables worth thousands of dollars a foot in some instances. And, as William stated, if what these cable companies say is true, surely some independent researcher or non-affiliate would have research on this, and it would be taught at a university level... But, it isn't. Nor is it found in any textbook or research papers.
How the hell do you know that. Do you read everything taught at the university level? Do you read all the textbook and research papers . . . I seriously doubt it. -
[
Being a scientist in the field, please comment on what you hear.
I was just trying to avoid a pissing contest and trying not to comment on what he hears. If he hears a difference it's not because of the bogus science of dielectics as explained by the cable company. That's all I meant.[/QUOTE]
Maybe one of you material scientists who seem to know lots on the subject can explain why the sound quality increases after a break-in period.
I still find it funny that you guys really think its all made up for the marketing of the products. -
bikezappa have you ever worked with the exact wire used to manufacture cables?
I'm not sure what your question means.
Is Exact Wire a brand name?
Cu wire is Cu wire. The wire gauge and length determine the impedance characteristics of the speaker wire in the audio frequency range. -
hearingimpared wrote: »How the hell do you know that. Do you read everything taught at the university level? Do you read all the textbook and research papers . . . I seriously doubt it.
Its funny how people think they know everything about everything especially how these numerous cable companies spec there products. -
My question is how firmiliar are you with say, AQ's wired/cable. I now you don't think it is generic copper. Not all wire/cable is manufactured the same.
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I got my Shotgun S1's today, I have my 3910 on repeat and starting to break them in while I am at work.
Hey Sal
Its been awhile. Nice cables. I gotta get over to Roselle Pk to see you and hear some tunes. -
Some people will never hear the difference till they use Debrox (this stuff is amazing). This should be a mandatory product for those that say cables make no difference.:rolleyes:
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clarknova_666 wrote: »but for now, I am willing to accept that we know as much about electricity as we do about how a plant grows, or human nutrition......which is not everything.......there are some things that we don't know......science is progressing but is far from a complete understanding of the universe.
So keep searching and experimenting with an open mind and don't be so scared of things that challenge your schema.
At school we debated the issue of what science is more accurate than the other. It is an interesting subject and changes with time. I would say confidently that we know much more about electricty than plants or human nutrition. The proof is that we can use the simple laws of EE to predict how very complicated circuits will work very accurately. However we can't predict with the same accuracy the effect of nutrition on people and how plants grow. Just my opinion.
The key to good science is to think up some theory and then get off your **** and do some experiemnets to prove or disprove your theory. The final step if you think you have proved your theory with experiments is to publish in the proper place your theory and experiments in detail and see if some one else can do the same experiments and gets the same resuilts.
The problem I had with the first post is that the science quoted violated 100 years or so of material science and experiments.
There are many theorys and opinions in audio but very few good experiments to prove the theorys. -
Mac
What is Debrox? -
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bikezappa
So why do cables/wires sound different/better after a period of break-in? -
Mac
What is Debrox?
This.:D Wife works at a doctors office and this is the product they use when cleaning out peoples ears. I tried it and it's amazing. A little weird seeing all the gunk that comes out that you thought was not in there.
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hearingimpared wrote: »I think he meant DeOxit.
Seems right. I really should buy some.
