Power Conditioner Failure... twice?

Serendipity

First of all, would like to thank everyone in advance:

As some of you may know, my APC SUA1500 has been giving me a lot of hassle recently (abnormal voltage lights, clicking on/off, etc.) but today while listening to music my receiver went into PROTECT mode and the SUA1500 died.

The APC won't even power on, or do anything - it's completely toast.

So I go and pick up a Monster HTS3600MKIII to replace the unit - the first thing that happens when I plug it in is an "Abnormal Voltage" light and no "Protection On" light, and then the unit starts getting hot.

The voltage on the Monster reads 127-131V, which is not that high.

What could be wrong?

disneyjoe7

Battery?

Serendipity

disneyjoe7 wrote: »

Battery?

I just bought a brand new unit.

The problem still occurs just like before and I am afraid the Onkyo will be toast from going into Protect mode.

Why the heck is the Onkyo going into protect mode anyways? Shouldn't protect mode be for shorted speaker cables, not high/low outlet voltage?

disneyjoe7

Ok try this.

With nothing plug in the APC this doesn't come on right.

With nothing plug in the Monster gets hot, right?

With nothing connected to the speaker outputs the Onkyo goes to into Protect mode?

Off record but who old is your house? No other odd things going on around the house, like bright lights, dim lights nothing funny right?

treitz3

Get yourself a DVM or AVM and test the voltage coming out of the outlet. Check that the ground at the outlet is OK as well.

Serendipity

disneyjoe7 wrote: »

Ok try this.

With nothing plug in the APC this doesn't come on right.

With nothing plug in the Monster gets hot, right?

With nothing connected to the speaker outputs the Onkyo goes to into Protect mode?

Off record but who old is your house? No other odd things going on around the house, like bright lights, dim lights nothing funny right?

1. Yes, always.
2. Yes, always.
3. Went into Protect mode today but powered it off and on and it came back alive.

House is from the late 40's. My light bulbs blow kinda fast too if that makes a difference...

disneyjoe7

Have you tried another outlet? Can you plug in an old lamp is this very bright?

Serendipity

treitz3 wrote: »

Get yourself a DVM or AVM and test the voltage coming out of the outlet. Check that the ground at the outlet is OK as well.

I have an analog multimeter and the voltage coming out of the outlet is 131V. Yes, the outlet is grounded (according to my plug-in GFCI tester)

disneyjoe7

Check some other outlets, you may have a bad neutral wire. Not good, 131 is TOOOO HOT

treitz3

Yeah, that is a little hot. That voltage would show up as abnormal voltage on my 3600 as well. Sounds to me like something is wrong with the incoming voltage. Maybe other things as well. Start the troubleshooting there and I believe that you will find your issue.

Serendipity

I think it's the power company.

A while back I complained to them about high voltage and they sent out a guy with a funny looking rotary meter. It plugged into the utility meter before the house wiring, and the voltage was around 127V on one side and 129V on the other.

That completely eliminates the house wiring, right?

P.S. the utility meter is where the utility lines come to the house and before the circuit breaker panel. The meter man reads that

Serendipity

treitz3 wrote: »

Yeah, that is a little hot. That voltage would show up as abnormal voltage on my 3600 as well. Sounds to me like something is wrong with the incoming voltage. Maybe other things as well. Start the troubleshooting there and I believe that you will find your issue.

Unbalanced load maybe? I noticed that in this house, one phase seems to be more "hot" voltage wise. The one that is 131V is always higher than the 125-127V one.

Would plugging in high-draw items (fridge, washer, laser printer) into different circuits help?

Serendipity

disneyjoe7 wrote: »

Check some other outlets, you may have a bad neutral wire. Not good, 131 is TOOOO HOT

The other outlets are all the same.

Half the house is 125-127V, the other half is 129-131V.

disneyjoe7

I had a house once with 131v or so and I called the electric company. They checked house wiring neutral, and placed a meter in my house. A week later they fixed the trouble, they removed some "Caps" in the field to reduce the voltage to the house. My cost $0.00 I know who I would called tomorrow.

Serendipity

disneyjoe7 wrote: »

I had a house once with 131v or so and I called the electric company. They checked house wiring neutral, and placed a meter in my house. A week later they fixed the trouble, they removed some "Caps" in the field to reduce the voltage to the house. My cost $0.00 I know who I would called tomorrow.

I called before and they did the entire meter thing, said 125-129V is acceptable.

Shouldn't it be closer to 125V?

disneyjoe7

125-129v would seem ok, but your 131v isn't. If they say ok, its time to call an electric person to check for loose connections, somethings wrong.

disneyjoe7

BTW I still think your APC battery is bad. 99% times an APC UPS will not power up its the battery, and since your voltage is 131v your battery maybe cooked.

Serendipity

disneyjoe7 wrote: »

BTW I still think your APC battery is bad. 99% times an APC UPS will not power up its the battery, and since your voltage is 131v your battery maybe cooked.

I'll check the batteries - took them out today for recycling. The batteries were quite hot to the touch too.

disneyjoe7

Cooked. That voltage is killing your stuff, have it checked out.

Serendipity

disneyjoe7 wrote: »

Cooked. That voltage is killing your stuff, have it checked out.

I guess more calls to the power company are in my future....

disneyjoe7

No my next call would be for an electrical person to check your house. I think you got some issues at your house with your 60 year electric system.

Serendipity

What's funny is that I'm experiencing the greatest voltage swings during the summer months. Especially when the neighbors are using their air conditioners.

In the winter the voltage is fine, something like 126V the last time I checked.

disneyjoe7

Ok maybe I would call the electric company first, but if they stay it's ok, maybe you need an electric person to talk to them. And maybe because you have a some voltage difference did you check with everything off? AC, frig, hot water if electric, the drier if electric, the stove off, anything heavy and not every light on also. I don't think you should have more then a 1 to 2 voltage difference between the legs to neutral, but if a loose neutral you could have voltage difference.

Serendipity

disneyjoe7 wrote: »

Ok maybe I would call the electric company first, but if they stay it's ok, maybe you need an electric person to talk to them. And maybe because you have a some voltage difference did you check with everything off? AC, frig, hot water if electric, the drier if electric, the stove off, anything heavy and not every light on also. I don't think you should have more then a 1 to 2 voltage difference between the legs to neutral, but if a loose neutral you could have voltage difference.

I can see where you are coming from. Like I stated before, they ran a test that bypassed the meter (eliminates anything inside the house) and the voltage was a little high. Said it was okay and not to worry about it.

Right now I have 127V displayed on the Monster with nothing else in the house on. When demand in the area increases (around peak hours) the voltage swings.

Serendipity

Weird...

I started plugging the Monster into different places in the house (carrying it around) and got some strange results. Half the house is OK with the monster @123V, yet the other half is 126V or more.

I'm starting to think this is an issue of unbalanced load. As you turn up the music the voltage on the Monster decreases.

WilliamM2

I'm starting to think this is an issue of unbalanced load. As you turn up the music the voltage on the Monster decreases.

My HTS-3500 does that as well. Drops from 122v to 118v. I wouldn't put too much stock in what it says, I think when the power demand increases, it steals a little of the availabvle current from the meter. My voltmeter plugged into the same outlet, shows no drop when I crank the music.

treitz3

That should not be happening. Just for **** and giggles I warmed up the rig this morning and plopped in some hard diggin' tunes. I noted the voltage and proceeded to turn the rig up as far as I could stand it [which was F'n LOUD..ouch!] and the voltage did not fluctuate.

Serendipity

WilliamM2 wrote: »

My HTS-3500 does that as well. Drops from 122v to 118v. I wouldn't put too much stock in what it says, I think when the power demand increases, it steals a little of the availabvle current from the meter. My voltmeter plugged into the same outlet, shows no drop when I crank the music.

I meant unbalanced load on the main panel in the house.

You see, alternating circuits on the panel (kinda like a zig-zag pattern) are on one phase - I'm getting 126+ on one side and 123 volts on the other.

Serendipity

treitz3 wrote: »

That should not be happening. Just for **** and giggles I warmed up the rig this morning and plopped in some hard diggin' tunes. I noted the voltage and proceeded to turn the rig up as far as I could stand it [which was F'n LOUD..ouch!] and the voltage did not fluctuate.

Interesting - I can get it to drop all the way to 125V if the volume is turned up, yet when you turn down the volume it goes to 126-127V.

Serendipity

As a side note, the upstairs rig has an APC (not the broken one) and it's currently plugged into one of the circuits w/123V. If I plug it into one of the circuits with 126V, "AVR Trim" shows up on the unit.

I'm going to unplug everything in the house and see if the voltage balances out, i.e. 125V on both sides. I'm starting to think the fridge, upstairs rig, laser printer, electric appliances, etc. are all on the 123V side.

heiney9

FWIW,

My APC reads an incoming voltage pretty consistently between 119 and 123 at various times. It mostly stays at 121 or 122. There is definitly something wrong somewhere in your electrical delivery system.

Good luck

H9