Power Conditioner Failure... twice?

Serendipity

If I were the only one with such issues, that wouldn't explain why neighbors have dimming lights or why the guys next door need to have their central A/C compressor fixed so frequently...

disneyjoe7

appadv wrote: »

their central A/C compressor fixed so frequently...

It's Old or it's Junk... Who knows for sure.

Serendipity

Who cares...

I won't be living here in another year anyways. Either someone is going to buy the land or a new house will be built on this lot.

disneyjoe7

appadv wrote: »

Who cares...

I won't be living here in another year anyways. Either someone is going to buy the land or a new house will be built on this lot.

Ok then, have someone or ourself put a new outlet with 2/12 wired backed to the main panel. I think that will fix all your troubles.

Face

Put the power conditioner under your receiver, it needs to breath.

Serendipity

disneyjoe7 wrote: »

Ok then, have someone or ourself put a new outlet with 2/12 wired backed to the main panel. I think that will fix all your troubles.

Will do once I move in. I might be getting out of NY depending on which grad school I end up going to...

ShinAce

If you live in the city, that is some really bad regulation by the utility.

If you live in the country, it's not unheard of. Personally, I wouldn't put up with it.

Serendipity

Face wrote: »

Put the power conditioner under your receiver, it needs to breath.

What's so bad about having it on top of the Onkyo? It's not like the new 706/806 series that gets reallllly hot...

Face

appadv wrote: »

The problem still occurs just like before and I am afraid the Onkyo will be toast from going into Protect mode.

Why the heck is the Onkyo going into protect mode anyways? Shouldn't protect mode be for shorted speaker cables, not high/low outlet voltage?

appadv wrote: »

What's so bad about having it on top of the Onkyo? It's not like the new 706/806 series that gets reallllly hot...

This, and the 4ohm speakers and long runs of cables aren't helping you either.

tcrossma

appadv wrote: »

What's so bad about having it on top of the Onkyo? It's not like the new 706/806 series that gets reallllly hot...

Most receivers need a fair bit of space to breath, regardless of whether they are known to run very hot or not. My Yamaha RX-V2500 specifies 18" clearance above in the manual. I think 6" is more like it, but generally it's not a good idea to place anything on top of a receiver or amp.

disneyjoe7

Sorry unless you fix that power issue nothing short of rewiring an outlet will fix your problem. And pluging anything in is going to break. Get serious, and get it fixed.

wizzy

Get yourself an Inductrol and put it between you & the power co

http://www.geindustrial.com/cwc/Dispatcher?REQUEST=PRODUCTS&pnlid=5&famid=44&catid=50&id=inductro

Problem Solved

Serendipity

disneyjoe7 wrote: »

Sorry unless you fix that power issue nothing short of rewiring an outlet will fix your problem. And pluging anything in is going to break. Get serious, and get it fixed.

It's not just me. My neighbor 8 houses down the road checked his outlets with a voltmeter, and also got high voltage.

disneyjoe7

Call the power company again, and if not.....


I PM you.

Serendipity

Dude since my neighbors' electronics are also experiencing the same problems we should all call. The guy who lost his scanner was pissed.

wizzy

One of these handles 200amps

http://www.drillspot.com/products/520555/tripp_lite_su30k3_3_3_phase__double_conversion_smart_online_ups_system

disneyjoe7

appadv wrote: »

Dude since my neighbors' electronics are also experiencing the same problems we should all call. The guy who lost his scanner was pissed.

Yes, since you're not alone with electrical issues. But I think both of you should call the same day, and maybe your other neighbor with the AC problems.

agfrost

Take a rocket launcher to the nearest transformer in your neighborhood.

Face

Eaton makes UPS's that can handle voltages over 130v.

http://powerquality.eaton.com/Products-services/Backup-Power-UPS/Evolution-S.aspx

http://powerquality.eaton.com/Products-services/Backup-Power-UPS/9130-Rackmount.aspx

Serendipity

Face wrote: »

Eaton makes UPS's that can handle voltages over 130v.

I thought they made superchargers?

Corvette ZR1 anyone?

Serendipity

Bad news...

The Monster HTS3600 seems to "choke" the amp at higher volumes - everything sounds dynamically compressed and there is no separation between instruments.

So I unplugged the Monster and plugged everything directly into the wall, and all the detail was back. With the Monster connected it sounded as if everything was ramming together - what a mess.

Is it common for power conditioners to choke an amp and make it sound more compressed? I did an A/B with the Monster vs. without and you can't even stand to listen to the rig with the Monster connected. It's just so compressed and awful sounding.

tcrossma

appadv wrote: »

Bad news...

The Monster HTS3600 seems to "choke" the amp at higher volumes - everything sounds dynamically compressed and there is no separation between instruments.

So I unplugged the Monster and plugged everything directly into the wall, and all the detail was back. With the Monster connected it sounded as if everything was ramming together - what a mess.

Is it common for power conditioners to choke an amp and make it sound more compressed? I did an A/B with the Monster vs. without and you can't even stand to listen to the rig with the Monster connected. It's just so compressed and awful sounding.

I plug my amp directly into the wall. Everything else goes into my Monster 3500 conditioner. As far as I was aware, it's generally not recommended to plug an amp into a power strip / conditioner.

Serendipity

Okay but why did my APC SUA1500 work fine and not the Monster?

Everyone was telling me how a UPS designed for computers would not work well with audio gear, yet it sounds MUCH better than the Monster - 100%.

I kinda wish I had it back.

tcrossma

appadv wrote: »

Okay but why did my APC SUA1500 work fine and not the Monster?

Everyone was telling me how a UPS designed for computers would not work well with audio gear, yet it sounds MUCH better than the Monster - 100%.

I kinda wish I had it back.

Not sure. My 3500 provides good, clean power to my CD player and pre-amp, and have a very positive effect on them. But my amp requires too much juice for the Monster to handle. I don't have any experience with trying to use a computer UPS for an amp...

Serendipity

tcrossma wrote: »

Not sure. My 3500 provides good, clean power to my CD player and pre-amp, and have a very positive effect on them. But my amp requires too much juice for the Monster to handle. I don't have any experience with trying to use a computer UPS for an amp...

From what I have experienced, using a computer UPS with an amp works well. If the UPS continuously charges the battery and runs off the inverter, the power is cleaner. As long as the UPS is properly sized it should work fine.

However I am still upset that the Monster sounds so bad. I will return it.

Face

Monster "claims" their unit is rated up to 1800va, meanwhile your APC is rated up to 1500va. Must be their "cleaning" circuitry, it cleans the dynamics right out of your music.

You did use the high current jacks, correct?

Did you look at the Eaton conditioners that I posted?

heiney9

appadv wrote: »

Okay but why did my APC SUA1500 work fine and not the Monster?

Everyone was telling me how a UPS designed for computers would not work well with audio gear, yet it sounds MUCH better than the Monster - 100%.

I kinda wish I had it back.

Different design. I really like my APC. Subtle improvements and no downside. Again Rotel sources APC units for their power conditioners........same exact units and they charge more too.

Not saying the APC will work for everyone in every system, but it works for me....or rather it sort of stays out of the way, which is what you really want a conditioner to do.

H9

disneyjoe7

appadv wrote: »

Okay but why did my APC SUA1500 work fine and not the Monster?

Everyone was telling me how a UPS designed for computers would not work well with audio gear, yet it sounds MUCH better than the Monster - 100%.

I kinda wish I had it back.

Knowing APC design a little but not 100% so take this as a grain of salt.

UPS in general are switches which are placed in service on the fly. Being switches they bypass the DC inverter circuit until its needed, doing so they output what they have as input with in a voltage range. Range being over 90v to 130v or so, anything with in range is switched to output.

Serendipity

I'm returning the Monster and going back to APC. The sound was MUCH better with the APC.

Marty913

Found this over at AVS & thought it might apply. Easy to understand anyway. I think someone already hit on a neutral problem earlier in the thread. The poster is named offgasser inthe Tweaker section.

I am a lineman for the local power company. One thing you may want to consider with expensive electronics is a good ground connection. When the neutral connection provided by the power company fails, either at the meter box, transformer, or anywhere in between, you are subject to voltage problems. The reason is that the neutral balance the voltage between the two hot wires feeding your home. The transformer will give you 240v between these two wires, 120v per leg if the neautral is intact. If the neutral connection fails (and it does) the leg with the most demand on it will "hog the load' resulting in a higher voltage on that leg and a lower voltage on the other. Both of which can wreak havoc on electronics.

If you notice your lights dimming, getting brighter, or burning out frequently you may have a neutral problem. You should call your local power company and they will send someone to install a recording voltmeter at your home. This will tell them if you have a problem on their side of the meter and help them diagnose the problem. Believe me they would rather do this than replace your appliances and electronics.

The only defense you have is an alternate ground connection. This is accomplished in two ways. The first is by a water pipe ground, those of you who have your electric panel in the basement can probably see this connection, this takes advantage of the inherent low resistance of the water company's pipes. This has become less reliable with the more common use of non-metallic piping by the water companies. I have actually seen houses lose their lights when the water company cut the service pipes for maintenace. The other option is a driven ground (AKA ground rods). An electrician will drive ground rods at your home to provide an additional path for the electricity to go. This also helps to mitigate lightning damage.

One note, if you hire someone to drive rods ask them what resistance they are trying to achieve from the rods to ground (the lower the better). You can find out locally what is acceptable. Driving one rod and leaving will only cost you money. If they look confused find another electician.

No power conditioner can resolve this problem, and it is not uncommon trust me.