Dog mauled while defending owners against mountain lion

snow

shawn474 wrote: »

This will be my last comment on the thread (i am sure a lot of you are happy about that ).

Poidog, I wholeheartedly accept that you disagree with my view and am at peace with your view as well. Again we will agree to disagree. I may not live in the mountains, but i have travelled, hiked, camped, etc. in many areas of this country. I have a healthy respect for wildlife and nature; but I also have respect for my fellow man. I don't value an animals life over humans; I just believe that we all have the same right to exist here.

You throw a large blanket over those who don't have the same beliefs as you when you use terms like "obtuse global argument" and state that the issues aren't relative to life there. I am sure that some, even where you live, would argue those generalizations.

I agree that it is a shared habitat - that means there is give and take. This particular story is one small example is a microcosm of a much, much larger issue, as I am pretty sure we could all agree no matter what side of the fence we are on.

Vader, your argument is based on the misrepresentation of the facts that the lion attacked a human. That isn't the case. It attacked a dog. Would I be pissed if it was my dog? Hell yes, but I wouldn't condone hunting it down and killing it. If it attacked me or my family, that's when I agree with everything that you guys believe should be done. Do we know how far he was from the campsite? How far did he wander into the forest? No. The only thing we know is that a mountain lion attacked a dog, while a guy was on a hike after leaving a campground. Fact is it didn't and the speculation that it would have attacked a human is just that - speculation to solidify your argument.

And so closes my irrelevant and unpopular .02..............;)

If it had attacked the dog while the dog had been all alone then I would be less concerned, the fact it did so while at least two other full size humans were present is truly cause for concern, it has shown at the very least it has no fear of humans and would attack them if it decided it wanted lunch. The fact that it is hunting so close to where many more such tasty snacks are going to be present and has no fear it has shown itself to be a clear and present danger and at least needs to be tranquilized and put in a zoo if possible and killed if not. What makes you think it has the ability to decide that hey im going to leave the little boy or girl alone that is out with there dog because there human is beyond me.



REGARDS SNOW

shawn474

So I lied, THIS will be my last post.


snow, how about the fact that we have allowed the hiking trails, campgrounds, etc. to invade so much on their home? It is a little of both I would say. The fact is that IF that mountain lion wanted dinner it would not have stopped at injuring the dog. It would have taken down those two humans and the dog easily if it was hunting for food. Read my previous posts and you'll understand why your last sentence is ridiculous - I've neither said or implied that.

poidog, I feel that I have established my side of the fence and artuculated it well. The global speak that you refer to may be lost on me.

The article and the way it is perceievd would have us believe that the dog sacraficed itself for its owners, much like a secret service agent jumping in front of a bullet for the president. If that's the case, I respect the **** out of that little pooch! If

There are many questions that remain unanswered; were there baby cubs around? was the den near? was the dog on leash or wandering yards ahead in the thick of the brush? And a hundred others that could have contributed to the circumstances. These things we will probably never know.

Don't mistake my "benefit of the doubt" attitude with siding with the mountain lion unconditionally. I just think its a knee jerk reaction to say that there is something wrong with this animal and it needs to be hunted and killed. There are many variables.

As for the rangers stating that they should put it down, I view that as a political move more than anything to appease the public that they are taking precautionary measures so as to not scare the public or detour visitors. I think it would be next to impossible to identify the cat and they knew that when they said it.

Again, the beauty of my opinion is that it is mine. While it lacks relevancy on you, it is completely relevant to me. If people disagree it won't stop me from being their friend, helping them out, etc. It isn't a character indictment or a viewing glass to one's inner soul; it is simply an opinion. And with that, I say

ben62670

If a mountain lion is hungry it would have found an easier target. 2 adults and a dog is not easy prey. It may have been capable of it, but the animal would not want to risk getting injured. An injured animal doesn't have someone to feed it in the wild.

Lord Vader

would you prefer this type of outcome shawn?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vXZPrFghxt8&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Epolkaudio%2Ecom%2Fforums%2Fshowthread%2Ephp%3Ft%3D82662&feature=player_embedded

sorry to threadrob this Ricardo, but it seems appropriate in this case.

shawn474

yep, that's the outcome I hoped for Vader. :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

Thanks for the contribution; it made me laugh (although not half as much as your sarcasm).:D

Lord Vader

I am pleased...

megasat16

ben62670 wrote: »

If a mountain lion is hungry it would have found an easier target. 2 adults and a dog is not easy prey. It may have been capable of it, but the animal would not want to risk getting injured. An injured animal doesn't have someone to feed it in the wild.

Agreed Ben! I think the lion is either desperately hungry and food is really scarce in the wild nowadays or this one is weirdo.

Resources for all wild animals and survival is seriously threatened in most of the parts of the world due to changing climate these days.

I think wild animals (such as bears) invading to the humans domains in places like Alaska is really due to foods and resources are harder to find in the wild.

Once they get use to the stuff in the trash, they simply come to find more again.

exalted512

Maybe some people cant read on here, but I would like to re-emphasize
""Out of nowhere, a mountain lion just charged us, attacked us. And my dog saved our lives," Morse said."

One more time "a mountain lion just charged us, attacked us."

And just in case you still dont get the point, it does NOT say "a mountain lion just charged my dog"

Kill it. Send me the meat and I'll make some steaks out of it. Then you can't complain that it was killed for no reason.
-Cody

ben62670

Edit: had a weak moment and was nice. Here is a happy kitty pic...

shadowofnight wrote: »

Now this is a cougar that would be worth the hunt...you cant get a bigger trophy then one that has won cougar of the year

dorokusai

So who in this thread is a zoologist? or even better...ethologist?

megasat16

Are you hiring? I know someone who needs a job!

snow

shawn474 wrote: »

So I lied, THIS will be my last post.

snow, how about the fact that we have allowed the hiking trails, campgrounds, etc. to invade so much on their home? It is a little of both I would say. The fact is that IF that mountain lion wanted dinner it would not have stopped at injuring the dog. It would have taken down those two humans and the dog easily if it was hunting for food. Read my previous posts and you'll understand why your last sentence is ridiculous - I've neither said or implied that.

Well I have no control over the hiking trails campgrounds etc and as to whether they should be there or not is a whole different argument the fact is they are there for better or worse. And I assume you think the animal wasnt hunting for food it just decided to attack the dog because it was bored? and would have gotten serious if it was really hungry?

There are many questions that remain unanswered; were there baby cubs around? was the den near? was the dog on leash or wandering yards ahead in the thick of the brush? And a hundred others that could have contributed to the circumstances. These things we will probably never know.

No we wont know nor should we care what the thinking was of the cat as it attacked, the fact is it did attack and as I mentioned earlier if it is fearless of humans there is no reason to think that it wont attack a human and in fact every reason to think it will. Mountain lions Bears etc view other animals as prey period. the only thing stopping a animal such as this is fear and fear only if it no longer has this fear as this one has shown it will attack.

As for the rangers stating that they should put it down, I view that as a political move more than anything to appease the public that they are taking precautionary measures so as to not scare the public or detour visitors. I think it would be next to impossible to identify the cat and they knew that when they said it.

That is absurd a political move? grow up! As far as them not knowing what cat it was is again ignorance on your part these cats are solitary hunters and have a hunting area that is theres and is not shared by other cats, trust me on this if they find a cat in that area it will be "THE" guilty one they are not like like wolves or even lions in this respect.

If you dont believe what I have said do a little reading on Mountain lions and how they act and you will see what I am saying is the truth. I have no more desire than you do to see any animal destroyed but if it is going to save other humans to do so even if we are at fault for invading there territory or not then we need to do it simple as that.



REGARDS SNOW

shawn474

I, sadly, am neither (although admittedly I thought I was an ethologist until i looked it up).

shawn474

snow, i am finished discussing. I've stated my point of view and you've stated yours. Fair enough.

dorokusai

No, I would like to read another 6 pages of opinion, ideas, solutions and counter-culture methods of changing mountain lion behavior...please, carry on folks.

ben62670

dorokusai wrote: »

No, I would like to read another 6 pages of opinion, ideas, solutions and counter-culture methods of changing mountain lion behavior...please, carry on folks.

I was getting tired, but yes sir.

dorokusai

ha!

ben62670

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snow

dorokusai wrote: »

So who in this thread is a zoologist? or even better...ethologist?

I doubt anyone here is either but it doesnt take an ethologist to know the behavior exhibited by this particular animal is not natural to the species and that once they start seeing humans as prey they dont stop.



REGARDS SNOW

snow

dorokusai wrote: »

No, I would like to read another 6 pages of opinion, ideas, solutions and counter-culture methods of changing mountain lion behavior...please, carry on folks.

Sir yes Sir



REGARDS SNOW

ben62670

I can't hear the video. Is it stupid. My puter is having a glitch:(

shawn474

As long as we're all posting links, read up............http://nationalzoo.si.edu/ConservationAndScience/ThinkGloballyActLocally/LossOfHabitat/default.cfm


Also, in case it was misrepresented and sensationalized: http://www.pe.com/localnews/inland/stories/PE_News_Local_S_web_cougar.254e907.html If you read the article it states that the mountain lion was attacked by the dog, meaning it probably defended itself and ran away. Hence the reason no humans were injured in the so called attack.



































PS- This is meant to be sarcastic AND informative.;)

snow

What this thread really needs is Cesar Millan's cousin the "Cat Whisperer"



REGARDS SNOW

ben62670

I am reading a subliminal massage in the tag.
I see.
Cougar. It is what Ford in her.
The ending doesn't make sense yet...

snow wrote: »

What this thread really needs is Cesar Millan's cousin the "Cat Whisperer"



REGARDS SNOW

Connie Vannett The **** Cat Song?

66chevyIISS

I'm surprised you guys aren't arguing over why it's being called a Mountain Lion and not a Cougar

did anyone ever see this?

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shawn474

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2009/05/state-officials-say-hoagie-the-dog-likely-provoked-the-mountain-lion.html

ben62670

That's next. I was waitng for it to die down... Then I was going to say Puma.

shadowofnight

" State wildlife officials said today that a dog involved in a battle with a mountain lion in the Cleveland National Forest was likely the aggressor and there was no evidence that the cougar had targeted the canine’s owners. "

“As far as we can tell, the dog went after the lion, and the lion turned around and attacked the dog,” said Kevin Brennan, a wildlife biologist for the department of fish and game. “There isn’t any evidence to believe there are any public safety issues. If a mountain lion attacks a human being or attempts to attack a human being, we treat that as a public safety incident, and we have to destroy the animal. That’s not what happened here.”

Cats off the hook...

dorokusai

snow wrote: »

I doubt anyone here is either but it doesnt take an ethologist to know the behavior exhibited by this particular animal is not natural to the species and that once they start seeing humans as prey they dont stop.



REGARDS SNOW

Oh, I'm sorry, it only takes a moron to guess about animal behavior with no real knowledge about the subject. Whew, no offense but now I can finally have a jury capable of deciding my fate.

snow

dorokusai wrote: »

Oh, I'm sorry, it only takes a moron to guess about animal behavior with no real knowledge about the subject. Whew, no offense but now I can finally have a jury capable of deciding my fate.

No guesses here, based on what was originally published in the original news story everything I said was well established facts. And no you will not find me accusing you of being a moron, a pain in the **** perhaps at times but certainly not a moronic one.



REGARDS SNOW