Overview Of Premium Cable History

dragon1952

edited.............I'm just getting too nice in my old age :rolleyes:

polkie4life

F1nut wrote: »

Too funny.....Nothing you own is top of the line high quality audio equipment. Perhaps you should file a complaint with whomever it was that told you it was.

+1

I think DK and others have pointed out numerous times before... You need revealing gear to really hear any differences.

I wasn't a believer but since the acquisition of a new amp i can hear the difference of both power cord, and interconnects especially.

F1nut

dragon1952 wrote: »

But it says 'Elite'

Reminds me of this girl who told me she drove a 'Vette. I asked her what year Corvette. She said, no not a Corvette, a Chevette. :rolleyes:

F1nut

xcapri79 wrote: »

As a Guru do you really levitate?

Absolutely and no, that's not rain falling on your head.

hearingimpared

Google is definitely YOUR friend. Why won't you answer the questions posed to you?

hearingimpared

Well you've done a fine job of convincing yourself that aftermarket power cables are snake oil and fairy tales. Your mission is now formally complete. Too bad your meaningless posts won't self destruct.

dragon1952

I love it when people are too lazy to try something themselves so that they can actually make an informed decision, but they still feel the need to 'educate' others who have, by quoting people they have never even met, about a subject they know nothing about
"Yep....I don't know **** from shinola about it, but it sure sounds plausible to me, therefore it must be true! I better tell everyone else. Even if they've actually tried it and got a different result. This guy here that I've never met says it ain't so, and they wouldn't have printed it on the internet if it wasn't true, so it must be right. Good....so now I can cop out and not have to try it myself..... because I'm too freakin' lazy and cheap anyway, nyuck, nyuck......but now I've got a built-in excuse! And I can even cover it up further by telling everyone else they are stupid!"

dragon1952

Do you actually think no one here has ever read those links you gave? Most of those are old as the hills. Of course we read them, and a million others. It's the same thing every time. You guys post all these links like no one else knows how to freakin' use the internet, or ever thought of doing their own research.

treitz3

xcapri79......................FAIL.

Three questions that with your self-proclaimed experience and knowledge [since you work in the field] should have been answered without Google, and without having to think about it. You sir, have failed.

Loss of all credibility has been awarded to you. Turn in your audiophile card at the office before the door hits you on the way out. Thanks for playing. Have a nice day.

AudioGenics

Karl Groos and Gustav Fechner was here

inspiredsports

lightman1 wrote: »

. . . y'all can talk big time power cords to a piece of gear and tout its benefits of SQ. But why would your connect a 4" water hose to to a 1/2 inch spiggot and expect it to produce more pressure.

First, spigot. Second, because it isn't a bigger hose and no one expects "more pressure" delivered to their components. That's simply a bad analogy. It's the filtering properties of using better quality components that makes the difference in garnering cleaner power. Last, put your background on the shelf and give it a try.

reeltrouble1

I smell ****, burning ****, glowing cherry red spanked ****.

RT1

inspiredsports

xcapri79 wrote: »

. . . putting "audio" cables on a pedestal is something control system and RF engineers get a good chuckle over . . .

I don't believe many here "put audio cables on a pedestal". We put them in our audio systems and note the sonic results. You might try it yourself sometime.

amulford

This was a useless spending of twenty minutes of my life. Good thing I'm being handsomely compensated to read this drivel.

Raife, as always, very nice read.

Capri, why don't you just shut the f#ck up and let others "make their own mistakes"... You don't have the credibility here to back your assertions, and no matter how much you google others peoples opinions, I have yet to see a technical analysis or paper with your signature on it...

amulford

reeltrouble1 wrote: »

I smell ****, burning ****, glowing cherry red spanked ****.

RT1

I like that!

'Sup Big Daddy!!!

Flash21

xcapri79 wrote: »

My Easter was ruined when I looked at my beautiful Polk Audio LSi25 speakers to see a plain old power cord on it. It was crushing to me. Then I looked further and saw a plain old power cord permanently attached to my Pioneer Elite SC-07 receiver and Pioneer Elite DC-48AV DVD player. Horror of horrors - top of the line high quality audio equipment with those woefully substandard permanently attached power cords!

Not trying to be snide about it (unlike some), but it is certainly possible your equipment doesn't have the resolution necessary to achieve much benefit from premium power cords. I didn't mess with power cords until I moved up from Rotel's best stuff to the Bel Canto etc.

reeltrouble1

YOU are the man Flashbang (unlike some). I gave up on snide, mostly now I just snatch.

RT1

reeltrouble1

you gotta admit the entertainment factor is Outstanding with this one.

smoked insurgent, looks good, however, the mold factor takes over pretty quick.

nothing like a crispy dumb **** newb to get the world straight though saving us all.

some sad news though, I hear the other villiage idiot was run over flagging a Greyhound Bus he was waiting on, they are now in need of a replacement. Perhaps it is time to end the search for the penny in the corner of the round room and move up. Stay on the curb though.

RT1

Hillbilly61

There is a phenominon known as phychoacoustics. Basically, this little parallel processor we (well, most of us) carry around between our ears has an uncanny way of being able to detect difficult to measure things. This partly explains why tube amplification has a following, when detailed bench tests show tube amps to be not as good as similar quality SS amps. I do not believe that many here will argue that tube amplification does not have a legitimate place in sound reproduction.

Here is an interesting little read:

http://www.norh.com/docs/psychoacoustics.html

reeltrouble1

no doubt test tube babies are also legitimate and have a grounding in reproduction.

RT1--Tubes Rule.

reeltrouble1

no mistaking the sound of a Yak, then there is the smell.

The train has left the station on this one.

RT1

DarqueKnight

xcapri79 wrote: »

I can cite all the esteemed Polk Audio Forum members from this thread that support the expensive power cord requirement theory.

xcapri79 wrote: »

A 500kV EHV substation requires shielded cable. I linked to a GE paper that discusses the technical aspects of this.
But it is really required in a home? The op needs to substantiate this. He is making the claim.

This is a thread on premium cable history. You seem to have a pathological need to turn it into another rancorous cable debate.

I, or no one else on this forum, has ever said that high performance power cables were required. Where exactly are you seeing these things that you attribute to me? I know you do a lot of reading on the Internet. Perhaps you are getting your websites confused?

DarqueKnight wrote: »

Please point out exactly where in post #53 I talked about the requirements of audio signal cables. I did speak of audio components and I spoke of power cables for audio components. If you reread, carefully, my response, you will find that I was talking about power cables and the environment that audio power cables encounter in a home environment.

Now, would you please stay on topic and address questions 1-3 from post #53? Those questions specifically pertain to the suitability of industrial power cables with home audio equipment. Thank you.

You accused me of going off topic and I asked you to point out where I had done so and to answer a few technical questions. Rather than do that, you again go off topic and start talking about off-brand cables that no one here uses (Pear, Virtual Dynamics, Nautilus Technology). You can find high priced junk in every merchandise category. So what?

Most of us here use Audioquest, PS Audio, Shunyata, Signal, etc., etc. We would be very interested in someone taking apart a PS Audio power cable and verifying that it is constructed as claimed by PSA.


Figure 1. PS Audio power cable internal arrangement.


Figure 2. PS Audio power cable internal arrangement.

xcapri79 wrote: »

My faith in humanity is thus restored!

http://dansdata.blogsome.com/2008/02/06/hot-glue-garden-hose-and-iron-filings-only-195/

http://www.dansdata.com/danletters117.htm#7

http://www.audioholics.com/education/cables/pear-cable-science

I wouldn't be so quick to put my faith in these "sources". Lets look at the Audioholics article you quoted which examines Pear brand cable. A couple of quotes from the article are interesting:

"Pear Cable was chosen for this case study not to specifically single the company out, but because they are currently a high profile example of just what Audioholics has spoken out against when dealing with unfounded advertising claims based on sciency sounding jargon without any real root in science.

Numerous engineering experts in various fields of electrical, audio, and loudspeaker engineering have also stated this opinion. Such experts include Dr. Howard Johnson of Signal Consulting Inc., John Dunlavy most recently of Dunlavy Audio Labs, and Roger Russell formerly Director of Acoustic Research for McIntosh Laboratory. Each of these gentlemen has spoken out against exaggerated claims of cable effects on audio reproduction in various venues..."

Pear cable is "high profile"? Ridiculous! Had you ever heard of Pear cable prior to seeing the Audioholics "expose"? Why didn't Audioholics pick a truly global and well established brand like PS Audio or Audioquest? I bet you've heard of them haven't you? As if the selection of a fringe lunatic brand like Pear cable wasn't ridiculous enough, Audioholics includes John Dunlavy, of all people, on their panel of esteemed experts.

The date of the Audioholics article is May 13, 2008. It is interesting that John Dunlavy would be chosen for such an article. Audioholics stated that he is one of a select group of gentlemen who has "spoken out against exaggerated claims of cable effects on audio reproduction...".

I have attached a price list dated January 1, 2000 for Dunlavy Audio Labs loudspeaker cables and interconnects. At one time, John Dunlavy sold speaker cables ranging in price from $400 to $675 per pair and interconnect cables ranging in price from $125 to $1,250 per pair.

Here are some research questions for you and another opportunity for you to edify the forum:

1. Did John Dunlavy speak out against exaggerated claims of cable effects before or after he began selling high priced cables?

2. Why did Audioholics pick an obscure, off-brand cable for their study? Why didn't they just ask John Dunlavy to bring a pair of his $675 speaker cables or a pair of his $500 interconnects for evaluation? I would have loved to read his explanation as to why his cables were better than the exaggerated claims of others.

3. It is a shame that Dunlavy Audio Labs went out of business in 2002. This was just as the market for high performance power cables was taking off. Using your extraordinary powers of speculative foresight, do you think that, had DAL managed to stay in business, they would have offered a high priced, high performance power cable to go with their high priced, high performance loudspeaker and interconnect cables?

4. Was Audioholics even aware that John Dunlavy sold expensive cables? His cables were not well received in the marketplace, so it is possible this escaped their attention.

5. John Dunlavy made some really, really nice speakers. He never did manage to break into the lucrative high end cable market. He was also not able to maintain his speaker manufacturing business. Was there some residual bitterness? Seems like most of the cable naysayers have an "axe to grind".

xcapri79 wrote: »

The op was in error when he commented on industrial control cable requirements.

Noting that his technical knowledge really didn't go very far, I explained the types of signals that industrial control cables actually carried.

Since my technical knowledge is lacking, why didn't you seize the opportunity to educate me by answering my three simple questions in post #53?

xcapri79 wrote: »

There was really no need to respond much further and particularly to his drones. You can believe in fairy tales. It is still a free country.

OK, then why even pay this thread any attention? Couldn't that time be better spent listening to and watching the glorious high resolution output of your $350 "top of the line" Pioneer Elite DC-48AV DVD player?

You were asked to try some high performance cables and you balked. Subsequently, you listed some of your audio components and you revealed that they all have captive power cords.

The makers of recent model audio components who believe that their products might benefit from a better power cord always include an IEC socket on the back. Since you have recent model components that do not have an IEC socket, it is clear that the manufacturers of those components did not feel that they offered sufficient resolution to benefit from an upgraded power cord.

Therefore, your participation in this discussion is questionable and moot. You should come back when your stereo grows up...when you have some relevant personal experience to share.;)

All you seem to want to do is rehash the same old tired, bitter cable naysayer diatribes to an unreceptive audience.

Is your life really that empty?

Perhaps when you get some really nice gear that you really enjoy, you won't be so anxious to disparage what other people are enjoying in their audio systems.

Enjoy the music (if you can).:)

reeltrouble1

the familiarity of his echo speaks volumes. a repeat button would be far more economical. but then the linking does come close.

anyway, you missed, aim higher.

anti hi-fi audio insurgents beware.

its just to easy DK.

RT1

reeltrouble1

for the record RT1 and other CP members use and support Virtual Dynamic Power cables.

RT1

DarqueKnight

Thanks for the correction Ted. I recall your review of the VD demo power cable a few months back. They should have been grouped with PSA and AQ in my post. For some reason I always get VD mixed up with Machina Dynamica.:o

amulford

xcapri79 wrote: »

I'm sorry for upsetting your flat earth society.
It is interesting and predictable how fire ants behave isn't it?

Who the f#ck are you kidding? Flat Earth society? Listen up there whistledick, if you think you are impressing anyone espousing psuedo techinical ****, you need to get over yourself. You are asking to compare two very different applications and parading about proclaiming your intimate knowledge of the subject matter. What complete and utter ****.

I, my good fellow, have over 20 years in the proffesion of industrial measurement and controls. I have even more history in audiophilia. I very much respect the opinions of others whom I daresay may have even more experience in the aforementioned than myself. For alas, I may not be THE expert in these matters. I do feel, however, I have a fairly good grasp of the subject matter.

DO NOT THINK YOU CAN PUSH YOUR OPINIONS DOWN OUR THROATS. This has been tried numerous times before; and to be frank we weary of asshats such as yourself continuously attempting to do so.

So do us all a favor and place your OPINIONS in with the same genus as they propagate.

"Those that don't know, don't know, that they don't know"

DarqueKnight

Guys,

The antagonist has said that his current equipment configuration renders a cable evaluation impossible. I see little, if anything, to be gained by further engaging someone who admittedly has no experienced insight to share and who is probably very envious of those who do.

Since we are such a wretched lot, why would such an "enlightened" individual, who currently only owns equipment with captive power cords, even waste time in a discussion on detachable power cords? That is like a Toyota Tercel owner spewing a bitter diatribe on the impracticality and wastefulness of high performance tires for Ferrari's.

The antagonist did say this was a free country didn't he?

Aren't we then free to believe in whatever fairy tales we choose? Aren't we free to spend our hobby money any way we choose?

What kind of loser gets upset over the lawful, largely subjective leisure activities of other people?

reeltrouble1

for free a metorite can fall on his head pulverizing him to the earth leaving a toxic waste for the EPA to come in and dispose of.

A fitting and happy ending as well.

RT1

hearingimpared

xcapri79 wrote: »

I'm sorry for upsetting your flat earth society.
It is interesting and predictable how fire ants behave isn't it?

Now that you've been exposed as a complete fraud and trouble maker you are going to resort to insults. How typical.

DarqueKnight

DarqueKnight wrote: »

"Abuse is the last refuge of the outwitted."
- Confucious

....:p