I love puppies, do you?

cheddar

digitalvideo wrote: »

Are you telling me that a 6.1% silver conductor on the high end HDMI cable that uses Skin/Foam/Skin Polyethylene that costs over $400+ dollars will make a difference over a $40 dollar cable that doesn't have a 6.1% silver conductor but still uses Skin/Foam/Skin Polyethylene is going to make a difference? And is that 6.1% worth $400 dollars more? LOL You got to be kidding me. I can't believe people are so desperate to defend a scam.

Read the post before you flame DV:

"Now as I've said, this difference may make no real world difference to most end users."

For the record, I wouldn't touch the $400 cable myself. But what you quoted the CSR as saying is untrue from the very evidence you cited (audioquest's website). The conductor material is more than a cosmetic difference. And pointing that out doesn't deserve getting jumped on as a person, "so desperate to defend a scam." But it seems you're in a fighting mood. So please, carry on with your rant. But I've got no interest in discussions that just try and label people.

dorokusai

You won't see any $400 HDMI cables in my rig....I have to go with compliance on that issue as well. Signal Cable is as far as I'll go with that and I've tried almost anything that can be ordered and returned for HDMI.

WilliamM2

digitalvideo wrote: »

The rep actually told me the Pioneers are tops. Maybe he should lie and tell me to go with something else (even though cnet.com, ultimateavmag,com, avsforum and all the other independent sites and people who test these tv's rate the Pioneer tops.) So he didn't lie. Crutchfield does sell Pioneer electronics in other areas so they do sell Pioneer. Like I said the Crutchfield rep told me what every other independent tester has come to the same finding so I assume Bill Crutchfield doesn't want his reps to insult the intelligence of his customers.

A good CSR would point you to the best product to fit your needs, out of the selection they have. He doesn't need to be dishonest.

I find it really hard to believe that you asked which is better, LCD or Plasma, and he jumps in and says "Pioneer plasma, but we don't sell those".

If I call him about a Blu-Ray player, do you think he will tell me where I can get it much cheaper? After all, I'm sure Bill wouldn't want him to insult my intelligence.:rolleyes:

digitalvideo

cheddar wrote: »

Read the post before you flame DV:

"Now as I've said, this difference may make no real world difference to most end users."

For the record, I wouldn't touch the $400 cable myself. But what you quoted the CSR as saying is untrue from the very evidence you cited (audioquest's website). The conductor material is more than a cosmetic difference. And pointing that out doesn't deserve getting jumped on as a person, "so desperate to defend a scam." But it seems you're in a fighting mood. So please, carry on with your rant. I've got no interest in discussions that just try and label people.

Actually I was jumped on and I'm just defending myself as again no one has put forth any evidence that there is any visual difference on their tv screen between a $400+ HDMI cable and a $40 cable whether they be from AudioQuest, Monster, Bluejeans, monoprice etc. The only thing I would correct myself on or take back is singling out AudioQuest, I aim this thread out all companies that sell an HDMI cable over $50 bucks.

You can also read the reviews of hundreds of people at amazon.com who bought a $10 dollar mediabridge HDMI wire and noticed no difference in picture quality. I bought the same cable from amazon.com and noticed no difference from the previous HDMI cables I have owned neither have hundreds of others who posted their comments and reviews.

F1nut

Hack.

digitalvideo

WilliamM2 wrote: »

A good CSR would point you to the best product to fit your needs, out of the selection they have. He doesn't need to be dishonest.

I find it really hard to believe that you asked which is better, LCD or Plasma, and he jumps in and says "Pioneer plasma, but we don't sell those".

If I call him about a Blu-Ray player, do you think he will tell me where I can get it much cheaper? After all, I'm sure Bill wouldn't want him to insult my intelligence.:rolleyes:

well first of all when did I say above: "Pioneer plasma, but we don't sell those". ? You misquoted me. I asked him which tv's have the best picture on the market and he said the Pioneer's do.

Now why is that so hard to believe? So in order to try to discredit me on HDMI cables you bring up the reps' personal opinion on a tv? He never once told me: "YOU SHOULD LOOK INTO THE PIONEER AND BUY IT." lol he told me his honest personal opinion which happened to be true which cnet.com, ultimateavmag.com, avsforum.com and many others have proven. Now why would he lie?

No one has still answered my question on how a $400 HDMI cable will out perform a $40 dollar HDMI cable either regardless if it's from AudioQuest or any other company. But attack the accuser and not provide counter evidence and then claim I'm attacking your credibility.

messiah

First, Thank you Mantis for telling it straight. Many of us have questions about cables, and wonder why we should spend hundreds, maybe thousands of dollars on these cables. This is obvious because the question seems to arise so often. I still don't know why any cable should cost hundreds of dollars tho. It's wire, wrapped in insulation.

Second, I agree with many here that the Monster corporation is a disgusting entity and should be avoided at all costs due to it's bullying and unethical buisness practises. There are other companies that provide equil or better cables for equil or fewer dollars.

Third, I agree there may be a "synergy" thing, hell, We have all noticed it between receivers, amps and speakers, so why not wires?

Last, I'm getting really sick of so many "polk gurus" (really, you're a GURU LOL, damn wish I knew earlier so I could worship you), talking down to people asking simple questions. You "gurus" hardly ever offer down to earth advise as Mantis has done. Instead you talk crap, and tell the op that he is stirring the pot, and rip on him. "oh no, not another cable discussion"... (rolls eyes)... doesn't everyone know by not that if you haven't got $1000 cables that you're not good enough to talk to me... snobbery. I thought that Polk audio was an affordable brand that put out very high quality speakers. Enough of your highbrow ****. If you have nothing positive to add, then STFU already, 7000+ posts or not!!!

digitalvideo

Maybe if I had over 1000 posts on here or 20,000 posts on here I'd be taken more seriously as the # of chat posts and length of time being a member here takes higher precedent over actual honesty and the challenge of thought.

dorokusai

digitalvideo wrote: »

Maybe if I had over 1000 posts on here or 20,000 posts on here I'd be taken more seriously as the # of chat posts and length of time being a member here takes higher precedent over actual honesty and the challenge of thought.

Not really but it's a common misconception. I've read this argument, conversation, discussion hundreds of times, on multiple forums with nothing in the end. Who cares. I buy what I want and don't feel compelled to "save" anyone.

cheddar

digitalvideo wrote: »

Actually I was jumped on and I'm just defending myself as again no one has put forth any evidence that there is any visual difference on their tv screen between a $400+ HDMI cable and a $40 cable whether they be from AudioQuest, Monster, Bluejeans, monoprice etc.

With your 'shotgun' method of defending yourself, would you really expect anyone to engage you in a calm, reasoned discussion on cable differences? Many of my statements actually supported what you were trying to get across. But I got flamed by you all the same.

digitalvideo

messiah wrote: »

First, Thank you Mantis for telling it straight. Many of us have questions about cables, and wonder why we should spend hundreds, maybe thousands of dollars on these cables. This is obvious because the question seems to arise so often. I still don't know why any cable should cost hundreds of dollars tho. It's wire, wrapped in insulation.

Second, I agree with many here that the Monster corporation is a disgusting entity and should be avoided at all costs due to it's bulling and unethical buisness practises. There are other companies that provide equil or better cables for equil or fewer dollars.

Third, I agree there may be a "synergy" thing, hell, We have all noticed it between receivers, amps and speakers, so why not wires?

Last, I'm getting really sick of so many "polk gurus" (really, you're a GURU LOL, damn wish I knew earlier so I could worship you), talking down to people asking simple questions. You "gurus" hardly ever offer down to earth advise as Mantis has done. Instead you talk crap, and tell the op that he is stirring the pot, and rip on him. "oh no, not another cable discussion"... (rolls eyes)... doesn't everyone know by not that if you haven't got $1000 cables that you're not good enough to talk to me... snobbery. I thought that Polk audio was an affordable brand that put out very high quality speakers. Enough of your highbrow ****. If you have nothing positive to add, then STFU already, 7000+ posts or not!!!

The check is in the mail.

I agree, mantis has been the only one to articulate an honest intellectual response on this topic.

What you said about Polk is true, a great quality company that makes high end speakers at an affordable price, but maybe if I were to waste $12,000 on B&K speakers, go against this Polk Audio website and Polk company I'd get more respect and cred here since money and price determines quality and superiority around here.

To better phrase that, to buy a $400 HDMI cable over a $40 Bluejeans cable is the equivalent of buying $12,000+ B&K speakers over $2000 Polk speakers when many believe the Polk's offer very similar if not equal sound and more bang for the buck. My friend has B&K tower/floor speakers and I personally believe my Polk RTi A9 tower speakers sound better especially for watching movies.

Conradicles

You guys are killin' me.

messiah

Yeah DigitalVideo, if this WERE the B&K forum, I would think that 400 dollar hdmi cables would be an appropriate conversation, as obviously money is no object. HOWEVER, we are polkies, and as such, try to get as much bang for the buck as possible. I don't wipe my **** with hundred dollar bills, and I don't buy 400 dollar hdmi cables lol!!

digitalvideo

I'm reading the posts over on the "Monster Lawsuit Article in Wall Street Journal" thread and everyone who is criticizing me here is bashing Monster over there, go figure. lol I think people just like to play devil's advocate.

messiah

No doubt that Monster corp are a bunch of douchebags, and many of their products are overpriced. Some of there stuff is just fine for most people without $20,000 setups, but because of their buisness practices, I'll give my hard earned bucks to someone else (and that won't include 400 dollar hdmi cables anywhere in the near future lol!!).

shack

People can buy and use whatever cables they choose.

My problem with this thread is that it was NOT a thread wanting to discuss the facts about cables and their performance but as the OP titled it....

Crutchfield admits Monster/Audioquest are scams

As I said, I don't use Monster products for reasons unrelated to product performance...but I am a longtime Crutchfield and AudioQuest customer and the OPs topic does a diservice to both. He accused AudioQuest of scamming the consumer and Crutchfield of being a knowing participant (and profiting from it). I do not believe either to be true and stated such. This has never been an issue of product performance but of ethics.

dorokusai

Send it to Crutchfield Shack. That's a solid company in my book even tho' I may not actually purchase something from them...they do have an excellent reputation for Sales and CS.

shack

dorokusai wrote: »

Send it to Crutchfield Shack. That's a solid company in my book even tho' I may not actually purchase something from them...they do have an excellent reputation for Sales and CS.

I already have. If they respond and will allow me to do so, I will post it here.

BTW...my very first pair of Polk speakers was purchased from Crutchfield.

messiah

shack wrote: »

People can buy and use whatever cables they choose.

My problem with this thread is that it was NOT a thread wanting to discuss the facts about cables and their performance but as the OP titled it....

Crutchfield admits Monster/Audioquest are scams

As I said, I don't use Monster products for reasons unrelated to product performance...but I am a longtime Crutchfield and AudioQuest customer and the OPs topic does a diservice to both. He accused AudioQuest of scamming the consumer and Crutchfield of being a knowing participant (and profiting from it). I do not believe either to be true and stated such. This has never been an issue of product performance but of ethics.

Ok Shack, you do have a point there. It wasn't Crutchfield that said they were scams, just one of their employees. I have been a Crutchfield customer for over fifteen years as well. I just didn't like that that this thread was going the way of so many others.... down the crapper.

comfortablycurt

You keep looking for this "proof" that 400 dollar HDMI cables are better than 40 dollar HDMI cables, but I don't really see anyone here trying to say that they are. I think you're arguing with yourself.:rolleyes:

I've read through the thread. It seems like everyone is pretty much agreeing with you as far as the overpriced HDMI cables go. Saying that Audioquest cables in general are a scam though? No.

As far as digital cables go, there really isn't any difference in my experience. As long as you have something of decent quality and aren't using the .69 cent cheapos that came in the box you should be just fine.

Analog cables on the other hand, are an entirely different story.

F1nut

but maybe if I were to waste $12,000 on B&K speakers,

As if you've ever listened to $12k B&W speakers. Pffft.

DarqueKnight

cheddar wrote: »

But it seems you're in a fighting mood.

Yeah, this seems to be a frequently occurring mindset among some of our newer members.

apphd

messiah wrote: »

First, Thank you Mantis for telling it straight. Many of us have questions about cables, and wonder why we should spend hundreds, maybe thousands of dollars on these cables. This is obvious because the question seems to arise so often. I still don't know why any cable should cost hundreds of dollars tho. It's wire, wrapped in insulation.

Second, I agree with many here that the Monster corporation is a disgusting entity and should be avoided at all costs due to it's bullying and unethical buisness practises. There are other companies that provide equil or better cables for equil or fewer dollars.

Third, I agree there may be a "synergy" thing, hell, We have all noticed it between receivers, amps and speakers, so why not wires?

Last, I'm getting really sick of so many "polk gurus" (really, you're a GURU LOL, damn wish I knew earlier so I could worship you), talking down to people asking simple questions. You "gurus" hardly ever offer down to earth advise as Mantis has done. Instead you talk crap, and tell the op that he is stirring the pot, and rip on him. "oh no, not another cable discussion"... (rolls eyes)... doesn't everyone know by not that if you haven't got $1000 cables that you're not good enough to talk to me... snobbery. I thought that Polk audio was an affordable brand that put out very high quality speakers. Enough of your highbrow ****. If you have nothing positive to add, then STFU already, 7000+ posts or not!!!

+1 Thank you Mantis for your years of experience and knowledge to add something of value.

Maybe if some of the other experienced and knowledgeable members had responded with valuable information like this, or with what it was that they disagreed with instead of these from the first 13 replies:

"Since when is a Crutchfield customer rep an EXPERT. I smell **** here."

"That BS smell is getting stronger."

"I can smell it from here too."

"BS tends to come out of AH's;)" (I don't think the wink changed the tone here)

"1 post or 10,000 posts...doesn't matter...it is still ****."

This thread would not have degraded so fast. The owners of the above quotes later came back and said that they may agree with HDMI the different cables may not yield different results, that their argument was they "were" constructed differently contrary to what was said in the OP. Which was a valid point I just don't understand why that could not have been said to begin with instead of what was. If anything those responses were BS.

If you disagree fine, how about sharing all the accumulated knowledge with the rest of us, or say nothing at all if the best you have to offer is snide comments like the above. It kind of pulls the whole level of this forum down.

flamesuit on rant over
Ray

xj4094dg

Over!?! This is better than Survivor!

vonnie123

Fongolio wrote: »

This is an interesting watch. About 9 minutes total.

http://www.cbc.ca/mrl3/8752/marketplace/packing_the_deal.wmv

good presentation - thanks for the link

shack

apphd wrote: »

+1 Thank you Mantis for your years of experience and knowledge to add something of value.

Maybe if some of the other experienced and knowledgeable members had responded with valuable information like this, or with what it was that they disagreed with instead of these from the first 13 replies:

"Since when is a Crutchfield customer rep an EXPERT. I smell **** here."

"That BS smell is getting stronger."

"I can smell it from here too."

"BS tends to come out of AH's;)" (I don't think the wink changed the tone here)

"1 post or 10,000 posts...doesn't matter...it is still ****."

This thread would not have degraded so fast. The owners of the above quotes later came back and said that they may agree with HDMI the different cables may not yield different results, that their argument was they "were" constructed differently contrary to what was said in the OP. Which was a valid point I just don't understand why that could not have been said to begin with instead of what was. If anything those responses were BS.

If you disagree fine, how about sharing all the accumulated knowledge with the rest of us, or say nothing at all if the best you have to offer is snide comments like the above. It kind of pulls the whole level of this forum down.

flamesuit on rant over
Ray

Since two of those quotes are mine....AS I HAVE SAID...my remarks had nothing to do with the performance of cable x vs cable y vs price points etc. It was strictly about the OPs tone that these companies were knowingly scamming the consumer. I took great exception to that inference about companies I have dealt with and know to be good businesses. It was wrong and I said so.

We may actually have Crutchfield chime in on the subject as here is a response to an email questioning if as a company they believe what the OP stated.

Good Morning,

Thank you for your letter and for bringing this to our attention. We'll be certain to locate this forum and respond properly to this entry. We appreciate your looking out for the reputation of our company.

Thanks again. Enjoy your weekend.
Regards,

Bailey
Crutchfield Customer Support
www.crutchfield.com
support@crutchfield.com
1-800-955-9091

suprafantx

apphd wrote: »

+1 Thank you Mantis for your years of experience and knowledge to add something of value.

Maybe if some of the other experienced and knowledgeable members had responded with valuable information like this, or with what it was that they disagreed with instead of these from the first 13 replies:

"Since when is a Crutchfield customer rep an EXPERT. I smell **** here."

"That BS smell is getting stronger."

"I can smell it from here too."

"BS tends to come out of AH's;)" (I don't think the wink changed the tone here)

"1 post or 10,000 posts...doesn't matter...it is still ****."

This thread would not have degraded so fast. The owners of the above quotes later came back and said that they may agree with HDMI the different cables may not yield different results, that their argument was they "were" constructed differently contrary to what was said in the OP. Which was a valid point I just don't understand why that could not have been said to begin with instead of what was. If anything those responses were BS.

If you disagree fine, how about sharing all the accumulated knowledge with the rest of us, or say nothing at all if the best you have to offer is snide comments like the above. It kind of pulls the whole level of this forum down.

flamesuit on rant over
Ray

100% agree with you Apphd.
You are the man Mantis.:p
Thanks

McLoki

Did not read the entire thread, but to the OP - Crutchfield did not tell you anything. A rep stated his opinion. I am sure you could have read the same thing on any audio board if you searched enough.

With that in mind, I am not sure why this thread has made it past 1 page......

digitalvideo

F1nut wrote: »

As if you've ever listened to $12k B&W speakers. Pffft.

Here we go again with the snotty arrogant attacks here. How do you know what I have or haven't listened to? I have a friend who does own $12k B&K speakers and I found them to be no better than my Polk RTi A9's.

But I like how you phrased it, it was like I said I had a friend who drove me around in his Bugatti Veyron, like owning B&K speakers is only for people like Donald Trump or something.

cheddar

apphd wrote: »

Maybe if some of the other experienced and knowledgeable members had responded with valuable information like this, or with what it was that they disagreed with instead of these from the first 13 replies:

"Since when is a Crutchfield customer rep an EXPERT. I smell **** here."

"That BS smell is getting stronger."

"I can smell it from here too."

"BS tends to come out of AH's;)" (I don't think the wink changed the tone here)

"1 post or 10,000 posts...doesn't matter...it is still ****."

This thread would not have degraded so fast. The owners of the above quotes later came back and said that they may agree with HDMI the different cables may not yield different results, that their argument was they "were" constructed differently contrary to what was said in the OP. Which was a valid point I just don't understand why that could not have been said to begin with instead of what was. If anything those responses were BS.

As a person who did not post in the first 13 and from the very first of my posts tried to redirect this discussion back to the actual differences in silver content in audioquest's hdmi cable, let me just say that I think a cable discussion that is actually about cable differences (or not as real world application results may be) should not degenerate into a discussion of scams and conspiracies supposedly uncovered by an otherwise reputable company like crutchfield.

I would really like to know from mantis what he thinks the benefits of a silver conductor are for analog and digital, if any, especially for a long cable run of maybe 100ft to another room, for instance. But not in the charged atmosphere that digital video purposely created at the very first original post of this thread.

Let's see, here are his claims in the OP:

1. Crutchfield admits Monster/Audioquest are scams

based on a customer service rep saying the following,

2. There are no internal differences in any of audioquest's hdmi cables, "'The $400 cable is just a prettier cable on the outside, you're paying for outside cosmetics.' AudioQuest has four HDMI cables in it's HDMI lineup and they are all the same, it's a complete scam and rip off."

I didn't use the word BS before or was rude in any way to digital video in my posts, eventhough he accused me of being a desperate defender of audioquest for pointing out the obvious inconsistencies in his original post. But since silver content is much different than a simple cosmetic difference, pretty much the entire original post when talking about audioquest was something that comes out of the back side of a cow. The original post derailed this thread because both DV's title of the thread and what the crutchfield CSR was reported as saying are misleading and untrue. That some members called it BS may have been a little poor form in some people's opinion, ok. But the original post did prove to be false just the same and directly led to this train wreck.