Synthetic Oil

AudioGenics

synthetic motor oils are only recommended for vehicles with mechanically sound engines.

( including good audio sound engines )

Jstas

joseph.v.chen wrote: »

synthetic motor oils are only recommended for vehicles with mechanically sound engines.

( including good audio sound engines )

What?

Just stop. You're wrong again and you're deliberately trying to incite riot and your attempts at humor remind me of rskarvan.

But, congratulations, you've gone from "stooge" status to the bozo list in record time!

AudioGenics

the information was taken from an article

first sentence of the last paragraph

quote: "...In the meantime, synthetic motor oils are only recommended for vehicles with mechanically sound engines..."

http://www.amsoil.com/articlespr/2007/article_tulsarama.aspx

muncybob

I agree with what's been said to the effect of...using synth won't harm anything and at worst lightens the wallet a bit more than dyno.

Our Jimmy using synth and I noticed a "bit" of a difference when I made the change from dyno at apprx 50k miles. Seems engine temp lowered slightly and mpg increased slightly. That's all fine & dandy but I made the change hoping to prolong the engine life since I'm one of those guys that runs 'em till they die.

Interestintg thing though(and I probably shouldn't say this as it will come back to bite me in the a**), my 97 Cavalier has had nothing but Castrol 5-30 dyno from day one and I am at 230k miles with no engine problems. MPG has dropped to around 30 hgwy but I'm happy with that. I've been told not to make the change to synth and since it ain't broke.......

Jstas

joseph.v.chen wrote: »

the information was taken from an article

first sentence of the last paragraph

quote: "...In the meantime, synthetic motor oils are only recommended for vehicles with mechanically sound engines..."

http://www.amsoil.com/articlespr/2007/article_tulsarama.aspx

You are a master of taking things out of context and spinning them to your needs.

The article was about shelf life of motor oil. ANY motor oil, not just AMSOIL. On top of that, an engine that is not mechanically sound well,...it doesn't work right. If it doesn't work right, no oil is good for it, not just synthetics. The article was an article written by Ed Newman who is, get this, AMSOIL Director of Advertising. Of course he is not going to recommend that you use a synthetic oil like the one he is trying to sell to you. Especially since the operation of the engine is compromised and someone lacking the experience to tell the difference would blame AMSOIL.

Also, that is ONE GUY'S RECOMMENDATION and while most of the folks at AMSOIL have a high technical background, he's an advertising director. Not the person I would listen to first about recommendations for oil usage.

Beyond that, that is the FIRST time that I have EVER seen in all the literature I have read on the subject and all the people I have talked to where synthetics were not recommended to replace mineral oils in an instance.

Congratulations. You dug up a single tidbit of info to spin to try and prove your point that flies in the face of every other piece of info out there.

audiobliss

Just to try and clarify some things for my own personal benefit, I've heard that it can be bad to switch from dino oil to synthetic oil on a high-mileage engine. Reason being, for some reason the dino oil's impurities/gunk (?) will fill in gaps, scrapes, notches, etc in the engine, and if you switch to a synthetic it will in effect 'clean' out these areas, releasing this gunk into other areas of the engine to potentially mess things up.

I've also heard similar arguments against getting a full-out tranny flush (not just a drain and refill) on an automatic that isn't exhibiting any problematic behavior.

Any truth to these statements? Limited applicability?

Thanks for the clarification!

AudioGenics

Synthetic motor oil has been pushed recently as being better than regular motor oil. Synthetic motor oil was developed for high performance racing engines and is good for vehicles with high performance engines and it works well in extremely cold climates. Other than that, there are no proven advantages to using synthetic motor oil versus regular motor oil although many oil change shops would like you to believe that. Synthetic motor oil is considerably more expensive than regular oil and if you choose to use it during your oil changes, the cost may exceed the benefits.

heiney9

Yep, just like I said the auto equivalent of a cable debate.

Synthetic is better as it's wear properties are better than dino oil. (among other things)

noscivic

THe only reason, I know of, not to use synthetic in an older vehicle is you will have leaks that you didnt have, or leaks that will be worse, than with conventional oils. The synthetic oil will work its way past old seals and gaskets since it is thinner, even though its the same viscosity.

Gary

heiney9

noscivic wrote: »

THe only reason, I know of, not to use synthetic in an older vehicle is you will have leaks that you didnt have, or leaks that will be worse, than with conventional oils. The synthetic oil will work its way past old seals and gaskets since it is thinner, even though its the same viscosity.

Gary

What car enignes and mileage did this occur for YOU? Or did you just read about it.

Jstas

joseph.v.chen wrote: »

Synthetic motor oil has been pushed recently as being better than regular motor oil. Synthetic motor oil was developed for high performance racing engines and is good for vehicles with high performance engines and it works well in extremely cold climates. Other than that, there are no proven advantages to using synthetic motor oil versus regular motor oil although many oil change shops would like you to believe that. Synthetic motor oil is considerably more expensive than regular oil and if you choose to use it during your oil changes, the cost may exceed the benefits.

Um, care to furnish some proof of any of your statements?

Synthetics were developed for the aerospace industry, not racing engines. Racing and extreme climate conditions were afterthoughts once it was shown that synthetics had vastly superior properties to the conventional lubricants being used at the time.

As for studies of all kinds showing the opposite of what you have to say, here's a few links from just the first search page on Google with over 2,360,000 hits for synthetic engine oil studies.

http://neptune.spacebears.com/cars/stories/oil-life.html
http://www.lube-tips.com/BackIssues/2001-10-09.htm
http://www-d0.fnal.gov/~jkrane/cars/synth_survey.html
http://intellistickoilcondition.wordpress.com/2008/06/27/synthetic-oil-study/
http://pubsindex.trb.org/document/view/default.asp?lbid=217836
http://www.upmpg.com/lubricationnews/new_synthetic_motorcycle_oil/4_ball_wear_test.htm

and some history on synthetics because you're obviously misinformed on that topic also.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synthetic_oil


As far as the benefits of synthetics, synthetics have been proven to increase the life of mechanical components, improve fuel economy, reduce operating temperatures, last longer, collect less contaminants, reduce dependence on foreign oil, reduce oil consumption and much more.

My truck alone picked up almost 2 MPG from using synthetics alone. At a peak of $4.68 a gallon of gas in my area, 2 MPG more per gallon out of a 25 gallon gas tank comes out to 50 extra miles a tank for a 6.5% efficiency increase. At a stock mileage of 13 miles to the gallon, that extra 50 mile boost in range saved 18 bucks on a single tank of gas at the peak fuel prices last year. I was filling up twice a week. That's 36 bucks a week in savings. That alone paid for a single oil change which usually lasts 3-4 months of driving. 36 bucks a week comes out to 144 a month. Over 3 months, the synthetic lubricants saved me over 432 bucks in fuel costs. With around 4 oil changes a year at about $36 a change, $432 saved for one oil change period is 3 times greater than the cost of oil changes for an entire year for my truck.

Yeah, you're an idiot if you think synthetics don't have value or have dubious claims to value.

Jstas

heiney9 wrote: »

What car enignes and mileage did this occur for YOU? Or did you just read about it.

What he says has merit and it has been shown to happen. Syntheetics fit in to tighter spaces than the conventional oils do so worn seals and gaskets that might hold back thicker conventional oils might leet a thinner synthetic slide by and increase the leak.

It was discussed in another thread post that someone referenced in an earlier post in this thread.

heiney9

I know it *can* happen in certain situations............I was just curious if it happened to him personally.

Personally I wouldn't let that dissuade me from switching to synthetics if I had a high mileage engine & I ran on dino.

I've almost always used synthetic so it's not an issue for me.

steveinaz

John,
Exactly, if you take advantage of the extended run time of synthetics--they are cheaper than Dyno oil, not to mention you get all the other benefits of synthetic. It's a win-win scenario.

AudioGenics

.....But don't assume that if a synthetic is so good (read: very expensive) that you don't need to change it as often.

The base lubricant may well be better, but the additive package, which can be as much as 25 percent of the volume of product in the bottle, can still become exhausted.

And unburned fuel, partially burned hydrocarbons, atmospheric dirt, metal wear particles and blowby carbon particles will build up just as fast in a synthetic-lubricated engine as in one laved in petroleum-based oil.

The only way to remove this stuff is to drain and replace the oil.

Jstas

audiobliss wrote: »

Just to try and clarify some things for my own personal benefit, I've heard that it can be bad to switch from dino oil to synthetic oil on a high-mileage engine. Reason being, for some reason the dino oil's impurities/gunk (?) will fill in gaps, scrapes, notches, etc in the engine, and if you switch to a synthetic it will in effect 'clean' out these areas, releasing this gunk into other areas of the engine to potentially mess things up.

I've also heard similar arguments against getting a full-out tranny flush (not just a drain and refill) on an automatic that isn't exhibiting any problematic behavior.

Any truth to these statements? Limited applicability?

Thanks for the clarification!

We went over this before here: http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?t=46148&highlight=synthetic+oil

Jstas

joseph.v.chen wrote: »

.....But don't assume that if a synthetic is so good (read: very expensive) that you don't need to change it as often.

The base lubricant may well be better, but the additive package, which can be as much as 25 percent of the volume of product in the bottle, can still become exhausted.

And unburned fuel, partially burned hydrocarbons, atmospheric dirt, metal wear particles and blowby carbon particles will build up just as fast in a synthetic-lubricated engine as in one laved in petroleum-based oil.

The only way to remove this stuff is to drain and replace the oil.

Where did any one that posted in this thread say anything that would require your "warning" above? Are you even reading the posts or just perusing the Internet and regurgitating "facts" that aren't applicable to the discussion?

AudioGenics

The questions that were asked
and request for any information.

quote:
Can someone tell me if this is true?

Is Mobil 1 still the oil to get, is it worth the price premium over something like Kendall or the Castrol Syntec stuff?

Is there something out there that's better that's not crazy expensive? I only change my oil about once every 3 months (about 6k miles) so I don't mind spending a little more for better stuff, but don't want to pay $30 a quart either.

Any info is helpful.
end quote.

Jstas

joseph.v.chen wrote: »

The questions that were asked
and request for any information.

quote:
Can someone tell me if this is true?

Is Mobil 1 still the oil to get, is it worth the price premium over something like Kendall or the Castrol Syntec stuff?

Is there something out there that's better that's not crazy expensive? I only change my oil about once every 3 months (about 6k miles) so I don't mind spending a little more for better stuff, but don't want to pay $30 a quart either.

Any info is helpful.
end quote.

Your posts have answered none of those questions. The one post that made an attempt to answer the questions was full of misinformation and inaccurate statements.

Again, I'm gonna ask, are you following along and reading the posts in the thread or just off in your own little world?

I think we should change your name to Ron or rskarvan or maybe, just maybe cornhulio.

AudioGenics

Both mineral based oil and synthetics are comprised of base oils and additives. Setting aside mineral oils.
Full Synthetic
Semi Synthetic
High Performance synthetic

full synthetic are motor oils made up of non-conventional high performance fluids.
then the Blends or semi synthetic that are made up using a smaller amount percentage of non-conventional high performance fluids and in combination with a conventional base oil,

Racing and sports Cars likey will use the most highly advanced and highly technological engine lubricating products available. These Synthetics differ in their application of very advanced additives, friction modifier. Typically at higher cost per benefit.

sucks2beme

I use full synthetic in the SUV, Blend in the tired old truck.
I change both oil and filter every 3 months. The only failures I've
had were transaxle related. They got their recommended maintenance
too. But in the cases it happened, the vehicles had a rep for early tranny
failure. I did have two retired DUE TO RUST. IF the driver's seat falls
through the floorboard, it's time to give it up. I don't have this problem
anymore since moving to Texas. But the heat is hard on trannies.

AsSiMiLaTeD

joseph, give it a rest dude, you're not helping yourself any - and you're not really helping anyone else either...

jdwmap

As biased as it may be, going to any of the synthetic motor oil websites is going to answer a lot of questions posed here and take the personal "facts" out of the argument. The end result of synthetics is less friction, less heat, and both of those are going to contribute to longer engine life. It is up to you on whether that is worth 2-4 times the cost of regular oil. You will still have to change it, you can just push it farther. We sell Royal Purple and when the rep comes in, he can feed you with marketing mumbo jumbo to make you think if you buy Royal Purple you will live longer. It is good stuff, but not everyone is going to buy it.

Tests independent or not have shown benefits, i think it is up to the individual to decide if the cost outweighs those things.

doggie750

WTF......couldn't really read all your concerns in this thread but I'll keep it short and simple........
SYNTHETIC oil = waste of $$$, it was pure marketing tactics!!!!
Use of 5W20 = fuel efficient but @ longterm it will damage your engine. Yes, regardless what the car manufacturer say. If you have a morethan 100,000 mile warranty or on lease, go for it otherwise protect your engine.

DELO = the best in the market for HDMO (Heavy Duty MO)
Quakerstate = Pennzoil:the best PCMO(Passenger Car MO) best additives use.
Chevron = Havoline: 2nd best
Exxon: 2nd best
Castrol....I would think 100x before I use this.:rolleyes:
THE rest: dont bother.....either it's not cost effective or simply the lowest spec/ rated you can have.

MADE this CLAIM: I deal with all these oils like I drink water. Work in R&D for PCMO/ HDMOs. I am the official oil GURU......:cool:

Jstas

doggie750 wrote: »

WTF......couldn't really read all your concerns in this thread but I'll keep it short and simple........
SYNTHETIC oil = waste of $$$, it was pure marketing tactics!!!!
Use of 5W20 = fuel efficient but @ longterm it will damage your engine. Yes, regardless what the car manufacturer say. If you have a morethan 100,000 mile warranty or on lease, go for it otherwise protect your engine.

DELO = the best in the market for HDMO (Heavy Duty MO)
Quakerstate = Pennzoil:the best PCMO(Passenger Car MO) best additives use.
Chevron = Havoline: 2nd best
Exxon: 2nd best
Castrol....I would think 100x before I use this.:rolleyes:
THE rest: dont bother.....either it's not cost effective or simply the lowest spec/ rated you can have.

MADE this CLAIM: I deal with all these oils like I drink water. Work in R&D for PCMO/ HDMOs. I am the official oil GURU......:cool:

You must work for Chevron. Either that or Shell. Doesn't lend credence to your self proclaimed "official oil GURU" status considering you are claiming your products as the best. Might be a tad biased.

ND13

Quaker State/Pennzoil....what a friggin joke. I wouldn't put that **** in my worst enemy's car.

greg2350

I use valvoline high miliage. twice a year I put in lucas oil treatment.

doggie750

Jstas wrote: »

You must work for Chevron. Either that or Shell. Doesn't lend credence to your self proclaimed "official oil GURU" status considering you are claiming your products as the best. Might be a tad biased.

Use and believe whatever you pleased my brother. As said before, I've dealt with this like a surgeon. Just a friendly claims for you all to take advantage.:)

ND13 wrote: »

Quaker State/Pennzoil....what a friggin joke. I wouldn't put that **** in my worst enemy's car.

Believe in me.......that's all I have to say. I will not engage for a debate unless you are a subject matter expert.:)

Jeb85

Well I am in the this trade and i do know alot about this.
Yes both oils have Anti wear agents, like Oxidation inhibitors, Rust and corrosion inhibitors ect...., also they both have detergents for cleaning and neutralizing acids, dispersants for soot and dirt, and pour point depressants which is to make them better when they are cold.
Synthetic is better than Regular oil, but not for older vehicals.
Synthetic is better because of its ability to have reduced friction, consistent viscosity, it has reduced evaporations, reduced fuel contamination when engine is flooded, and keeps the engine cleaner.
synthetic oils no matter where you get them are superior lubricants. they are very complex compounds that are chemically engineered
always use the viscosity that your manual says for the temp your in(5w30 for instance) there are many reasons for this believe me, and always use the filter from the car manufacture and change your oil every 3months or 3000miles no matter what!
so if you want to use synthetics they are worth every penny, and all have the basics that all motor oil has, but they are superior in there construction and in there properties. No matter what company you get them from.
the reason synthetics make older vehicals leak is more where the piston rings meet the cylinder walls because of its reduced friction properties, so don't put synthetic into a vehical with 150000miles or more

Jstas

doggie750 wrote: »

Use and believe whatever you pleased my brother. As said before, I've dealt with this like a surgeon. Just a friendly claims for you all to take advantage.:)


Believe in me.......that's all I have to say. I will not engage for a debate unless you are a subject matter expert.:)

Yeah, you know what? The janitor also works in R&D...cleaning up. Doesn't make him an expert.

But going by your logic, I'm the King of Spain! I said so! It must be true!