World Currency... US backs it?!

cnh

Undocumented workers are certainly a burden on the economy but they also provide Labor so it's a mixed bag. Health care is probably a much greater burden in real dollars than all illegals put together. Costs are astronomical, they affect the employer and the employee as they become greater and greater. In fact health care in the U.S. is getting a bit outrageous. Few other industries can charge those amounts! Don't know exactly what part of the system is responsible for 2000 dollar a day hospital rooms, 1000s of dollars in simple tests like CAT scans, etc.? You can get a five star hotel room for less than that?

Taxes also a burden, but mostly for middle-class dudes...everyone else except for smaller businesses find the WAY to escape those 'terribly' high tax rates!

Agreed, Clinton/Bush is more of a continuity on this than true difference.

There is a great dilemma here that needs to be addressed? How do we lower taxes to help businesss AND PEOPLE, and not simply drone about 'tax cuts' as a real solution. Tax cuts for businesses have to be linked to real INVESTMENTS IN THE CREATION OF JOBS IN THE U.S. We shouldn't tell Wall Street here are some outrageous tax cuts now get your accounts off-shore and make sure there IS NO manufacturing done in the U.S. Get thee to China and Japan...that's where your WORKERS are!

There is some place for a modicum of regulation. Also, WATCH those hedgefund guys 'closely' very 'closely', no more banking practices like leveraged mortgages. Jail sentences to anyone who tries to make money without having any real collateral to back an investment scheme?

Tax breaks for company healthcare plans that allow employer and employee to split costs to help each side. Larger pools for healthcare pots. Reduce bureaucracy for HMOs and other pay plans. Cut medical costs! Encourage generic drugs and reduce patent time on drugs moving to generic production..should encourage Drug companies to produce more new drugs and not SIT on their patents!

Take caps off AMA restrictions on number of M.D.s allowed in the U.S. per year. Allow Doctors to participate in Free Market where their salaries can fluctuate? AMA controls supply and demand--and that is not regulatory, how???? Allowing a few more doctors into the system will neither reduce quality nor depress salaries much below their current rate if other healthcare costs are brought down.

Just a few thoughts..

cnh

rayslifecycle

I agree on the health care point cnh.

The biggest problem with health care is how messed up the food supply is, genetically modified plants and animals along with big pharma and tv commercials make being healthy an exotic notion for most people.....and here kool-aid may be taken literally.
How can anyone get healthy if they are always eating chemicals and fake food?

Check out "the Omnivores Dilema" by Michael Pollen or "the great american detox diet" by alex jamison to get some good starting insight into how far removed we are from real nutrition......also check out http://www.ofthefield.com/ to learn how nutritious plants which are not a part of the agricultural process can be.

But the biggest drain by far on our economy has to be the military industrial complex.
the cost of operating between 700 and 800 military bases in so many countries costs hundreds of billions of dollars a year. I am a big fan of our military, however bringing them home and placing them on the border would be a big step in the right direction from a security standpoint and an economic one. All the local economies where those bases are relocated to in the US would benefit and it would certainly secure the land and resources owned by us to remain ours. It would also reduce tension with those countries that we "occupy" and improve our standing in the world. I know there are many reasons why we have so many bases around the world, but we would benefit by bringing them home and the power of the corrupt governments (yes plural - incl. NATO, UN) controlling them would decrease.

bobman1235

It's easy to critique chemically enhanced food when you're not starving to death. The population in general, at least the way society is structured, is well past the point where everyone could just eat organically grown fruits and vegetables. We have pesticides and chemicals because it's the only reasonable way to create the enormous amounts of food needed for such a large non-agrarian society. Sure, if we were all farmers with our own little plots of land it would be a different story.

inspiredsports

cnh wrote: »

. . . There is a great dilemma here that needs to be addressed? How do we lower taxes to help businesss AND PEOPLE, and not simply drone about 'tax cuts' as a real solution . . .

It comes back to my post 2 above. Entitlements.

Our workforce needs to work for that home, car, healthcare plan, pension, microwave, dvd player, flatscreen and set of Polk's. Do you have any idea how "rich" the "poor" in this country are.

I'm about as extended as I can possibly be running 2 small businesses with 2 in college and 2 more entering in 2011 and 2013. Yet I supposedly made too much for assistance. Fine, I'll deal with it.

Yet one of my daughters boyfriend's has a family income of about zero. But they have everything they need provided by assistance, and I mean everything (nice suburban home, car, healthcare, flatscreen, etc.). And guess what, he's getting a FULL RIDE (tuition, books, room, board, meals and a campus job for spending money). I'm not even begrudging them that, but guess what? None of the family members work for fear they will lose the assistance.

I work 8-12 hours per day, nearly every day of my life, to support this type of scenario all across this nation.

Fongolio

Now this is exactly what both the US and Canada (and the rest of the world for that matter) needs. Intelligent, informed, educated, and rational discussion on these matters. For far too long too many people just accepted the status quo and this is where we end up. I believe that at the root of the problem in Canada and the US is the fact that we have exported so many of our jobs. How many TV's or Stereo's or computer parts are made in the US any more? The big three car manufacturers focused on big honking SUV's while the rest of the world developed excellent economy cars and sold huge amounts of them in the US and Canada. Everyone shops at Walmart where most of the stuff bought there is made overseas. Same with electronics. Most of the stuff sold in the Best Buy's and other big retailers is manufactured overseas. I truly hope that companies like Polk and Totem survive. Goods made in the US and Canada. The other big problem is US dependence on foreign oil. That dependence forces wars like in Iraq and Afghanistan. Why is the US sending more troops to Afghanistan? The pipeline. They need that oil. Why Iraq? Need to secure that oil. It has very little to do with terrorists or WMD's. Canada has lost a lot of soldiers in Afghanistan and for what? The city of New Orleans still lies in shambles and yet the US is still spending billions a month in Iraq. Does this make sense? One of Obama's really good idea's is that the US needs to become the world leader in alternate energy sources. That will lead to R and D and factories and people working and less dependence on foreign oil and less need for useless war. By the way unlike Obama I believe the US and Canada need to look at nuclear energy again. A large part of Europe has run safely on it for many decades. Three Mile Island and Chernobyl were serious human errors that can be avoided with tougher safety guidelines. That's a little more than two cents but it's just my opinion.

inspiredsports

clarknova_666 wrote: »

. . . but the biggest drain by far on our economy has to be the military industrial complex . . .

This appears to be a valid argument until you examine what the real cost of energy would be without our military presence. It may not be morally right, but that's just the way it is.

The US represents about 5% of the world's population and consumes about 25% of its energy. Without huge military expenditures, the cost of energy would be exponentially higher. You can then argue what is the value of even 1 soldiers life, but they don't generally figure that into the equation.

Alternative energy development may finally move to the forefront, but it's also fraught with expensive engineering challenges.

inspiredsports

Fongolio wrote: »

Now this is exactly what both the US and Canada (and the rest of the world for that matter) needs. Intelligent, informed, educated, and rational discussion on these matters. For far too long too many people just accepted the status quo and this is where we end up. I believe that at the root of the problem in Canada and the US is the fact that we have exported so many of our jobs. How many TV's or Stereo's or computer parts are made in the US any more? The big three car manufacturers focused on big honking SUV's while the rest of the world developed excellent economy cars and sold huge amounts of them in the US and Canada. Everyone shops at Walmart where most of the stuff bought there is made overseas. Same with electronics. Most of the stuff sold in the Best Buy's and other big retailers is manufactured overseas. I truly hope that companies like Polk and Totem survive. Goods made in the US and Canada. The other big problem is US dependence on foreign oil. That dependence forces wars like in Iraq and Afghanistan. Why is the US sending more troops to Afghanistan? The pipeline. They need that oil. Why Iraq? Need to secure that oil. It has very little to do with terrorists or WMD's. Canada has lost a lot of soldiers in Afghanistan and for what? The city of New Orleans still lies in shambles and yet the US is still spending billions a month in Iraq. Does this make sense? One of Obama's really good idea's is that the US needs to become the world leader in alternate energy sources. That will lead to R and D and factories and people working and less dependence on foreign oil and less need for useless war. By the way unlike Obama I believe the US and Canada need to look at nuclear energy again. A large part of Europe has run safely on it for many decades. Three Mile Island and Chernobyl were serious human errors that can be avoided with tougher safety guidelines. That's a little more than two cents but it's just my opinion.

Good stuff!

Hillbilly61

inspiredsports wrote: »

<snip>

No on has a "right" to a home, or a job, or a pension, or free health care. No one has a "right" to a car, a microwave oven, a VCR or a pair of Polks.

<snip>

I don't have a right to have a pair of Polks? :eek: :eek: :eek:

(some comic relief to this deep thread!)

rayslifecycle

bobman1235 wrote: »

It's easy to critique chemically enhanced food when you're not starving to death. The population in general, at least the way society is structured, is well past the point where everyone could just eat organically grown fruits and vegetables. We have pesticides and chemicals because it's the only reasonable way to create the enormous amounts of food needed for such a large non-agrarian society. Sure, if we were all farmers with our own little plots of land it would be a different story.

I agree the odds are stacked against us - bad food is advertised, tastes great and is cheap.

But combine this problem with the entitlements portion of the discussion - and add that to the fact that 40 years ago many homeowners had their own vegetable garden....they worked for their food.....i know my parents had one, and my grandparents......but now both parents are working overtime to make ends meet......and there is soccer practice, and overtime, and cutbacks, and and and and and......

yes it is hard - but where are our priorities?

Right now they are derailed, askew, misaligned.

Why?

Because many peoples' ideas of success and lifestyle are more in line with Madison Ave then basic morals, acts of kindness and health. Its time to get back to basics and kick the complex corpora-governmental goons out of power restoring the republic to the people. Lets help each other out.

You guys have been great - this is by far the best "controversial" thread I have seen in the clubhouse.

PhantomOG

I think its a little short sighted to blame health care issues on chemically/genetically enhanced foods when so many people eat McDonald's, smoke, and drink alcohol everyday. Not saying people shouldn't be able to do those things, just saying they should also expect the consequences.

Is health care expensive in the US? Absolutely. But I would rather be here than any other place. I've heard it said that with health care there are 3 things: fast, cheap, good. Pick any two. Here we have fast and good. For someone like me who's actually willing to work for a living it works out great. For someone who just want's to live off the government, not so great.

bobman1235

clarknova_666 wrote: »

I agree the odds are stacked against us - bad food is advertised, tastes great and is cheap.

But combine this problem with the entitlements portion of the discussion - and add that to the fact that 40 years ago many homeowners had their own vegetable garden....they worked for their food.....i know my parents had one, and my grandparents......but now both parents are working overtime to make ends meet......

I still think you're not making a distinction between "bad food" and "non-organic." The original post I was replying to made a blanket statement about genetically modified food and chemicals. In a world where there are 6+ billion people, and more than half of those people live in URBAN areas where a garden is not possible (unlike 40 years ago when your parents were gardening), "chemicals" and genetically modified food is a necessity if you want to feed everyone. Is it tied into the other things you mention? Absolutely, but not as much as you seem to be insinuating. It's a simple matter of logistics more than attitudes. I would say those who are most disconnected from the reality are those who think a chemical-free world without genetically modified food is a reasonable one when thousands if not millions of people are hungry and starving in the world.

rayslifecycle

PhantomOG wrote: »

I think its a little short sighted to blame health care issues on chemically/genetically enhanced foods when so many people eat McDonald's, smoke, and drink alcohol everyday.

I think this proves my point.......everything you named is a health problem, and it is all activities that are advertised and encouraged in the market.

Where are our priorities?

Health care would cost less if so many people weren't so sick.
Eating poorly makes you sick. Eating poorly includes GM foods as well as foods transported long distances and processed foods.
Demand to be "cured" from sickness raises health care prices.

Eating whole fresh foods grown locally will provide you with the nutrients to fend off the sickness and heal. This would reduce the demands on the health care system and they would have to compete for our business because there wouldn't be as much of it. The system is self perpetuating and we keep feeding it more.....and more .......and more.

You are what you eat.

PhantomOG

clarknova_666 wrote: »

Where are our priorities?

My priority is freedom to choose. Are you proposing people not be allowed to eat what they want? Living a healthy lifestyle is promoted here, despite most people's choice not to. As long as we still have the option to live healthy, then what's the problem? In fact, I'd say we have more organic/all-natural/cage-free/free-range/grass-fed/etc./etc./etc. options now than we've ever had before.

You can lead a horse to water...

rayslifecycle

bobman1235 wrote: »

I still think you're not making a distinction between "bad food" and "non-organic." The original post I was replying to made a blanket statement about genetically modified food and chemicals. In a world where there are 6+ billion people, and more than half of those people live in URBAN areas where a garden is not possible (unlike 40 years ago when your parents were gardening), "chemicals" and genetically modified food is a necessity if you want to feed everyone. Is it tied into the other things you mention? Absolutely, but not as much as you seem to be insinuating. It's a simple matter of logistics more than attitudes. I would say those who are most disconnected from the reality are those who think a chemical-free world without genetically modified food is a reasonable one when thousands if not millions of people are hungry and starving in the world.

I understand that the Petro fertilizer industry has created a mountain of food, and that supply has perpetuated population growth. But no matter how much bad food is grown, it is still bad food that is bad for the soil and unsustainable. The worlds food problem is epidemic. But I am trying to keep this a personal responsibility discussion rather then a world hunger discussion. How can we discuss saving the world when we are slowly destroying ourselves.

One choice you can make if you live in a city is to support your local farmer. Join a Co-op as opposed to giving your money to hte huge supermarket. Get together with people in your building and start a roof garden. Reclaim empty lots. Start an herb garden in your window.

There are a lot of excuses not to try. But I would like to see more people just try.

I think you are very noble to worry about those that are starving. I, however, am not.

I am instead taking responsibility for my life instead. I am working my first little home garden to feed my soon to be wife and myself the best possible food I can so that I am not a burden on theH.C. system. I am also not willing to support an industry that is most likely the cause of all the increases in disease like diabetes, heart disease, obesity and cancer.

I too respect the right to choose PhantomOG - heck yes - eat all the Mcdonalds you want - and when your done I"ll go do a shot with you. But when the cost of eating that food is your health, and some think they deserve health care as a right, then they are increasing the cost of my health care......

Of course the system has a lot to do with the high costs.....but making smart choices and taking that step to be responsible for your own health takes the system out of the equation.

PhantomOG

clarknova_666 wrote: »

some think they deserve health care as a right, then they are increasing the cost of my health care......

I don't necessarily agree with people claiming that as a "right".

When people have a "right" this is what happens:
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/04/02/eveningnews/main4915011.shtml?source=RSSattr=Health_4915011

9 uninsured people racking up over $3 million in unnecessary ER visits in just 6 years.

rayslifecycle

So what do we do about this?

I never really thought you thought of it as a right, but many do....

Anyone want to trade some rosemary for some basil? I'll have a batch ready in a month or two.
Maybe I'll make some of my herb garden available for a kharma. Local pickup only........
hahahaha

Thanks for the good discussion. You really got me thinking.

ND13

World currency to organic food.;)

bobman1235

HAHA, yeah, sorry, didn't mean to derail, but the organic food rallying cry is a bit of a pet peeve of mine. I mean, I'm fortunate enough to be able to afford organic stuff if I want it, but I think people who call for the outlawing of pesticides are short-sighted to say the least.

inspiredsports

below

inspiredsports

PhantomOG wrote: »

. . . health care . . . for someone like me who's actually willing to work for a living it works out great. For someone who just want's to live off the government, not so great . . .

This is true if you work for a mid to large size company that offers benefits, but not so true tor the self-employed or small business owner.

I pay $7.2K per year to cover my family of 6 with a $5.6K deductible. Our annual medical costs (health/dental/optical) including the insurance have averaged about 17K for the past 3 years so we get back about 3K (80% copay) for a net outlay of around 14K per year.

To generate 14K in profit equals about 45K in gross sales. That requires a bit of work to accomplish so it doesn't really work out to what I would call "great".

I'm not really complaining as I choose to be my own boss, just sharing some interesting facts about which many who work as employees are not aware.

14 years ago when I worked for a 50 employee corporation, I used to snicker when the owner sent around a benefits sheets entitled "It's More Than You Think" at the end of the year. That sheet recapped what you were paid in total (health insurance, 401K matching, pension, etc.) in relation to what you earned as your salary. After my first year in business for myself, I realized my snickering was quite unwarranted.

inspiredsports

ND13 wrote: »

World currency to organic food.;)

The high cost of health care leading to a call towards socialized medicine, leading to the call for a unified currency was the unifying thread. We need to resist all of these and remain sovereign.

inspiredsports

PhantomOG wrote: »

I don't necessarily agree with people claiming that as a "right".

When people have a "right" this is what happens:
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/04/02/eveningnews/main4915011.shtml?source=RSSattr=Health_4915011

9 uninsured people racking up over $3 million in unnecessary ER visits in just 6 years.

That's nearly once a week for each of those nine people for 6 straight years!

It's not so much the people claiming the right as the vote buyers in Congress offering it, in fact flat out campaigning on it. It's really easy to offer someone else's money when you are able to legislate a pathway to their wallets, the trouble is, they've just about emptied those wallets. Like it or not, our vote-buying Congress has basically indentured us and our offspring for decades to come.

Less to spend in the for sale forum I guess :mad:

Polkersince85

The bigger issue we have is that the people working and PAYING taxes are now in a minority when it comes to the voting booth. Think the majority will vote for less benefits and paying their fair share of taxes? I vote for the Fair Tax. At least some of it will be recovered.

apphd

inspiredsports wrote: »

It comes back to my post 2 above. Entitlements.

Our workforce needs to work for that home, car, healthcare plan, pension, microwave, dvd player, flatscreen and set of Polk's. Do you have any idea how "rich" the "poor" in this country are.

I'm about as extended as I can possibly be running 2 small businesses with 2 in college and 2 more entering in 2011 and 2013. Yet I supposedly made too much for assistance. Fine, I'll deal with it.

Yet one of my daughters boyfriend's has a family income of about zero. But they have everything they need provided by assistance, and I mean everything (nice suburban home, car, healthcare, flatscreen, etc.). And guess what, he's getting a FULL RIDE (tuition, books, room, board, meals and a campus job for spending money). I'm not even begrudging them that, but guess what? None of the family members work for fear they will lose the assistance.

I work 8-12 hours per day, nearly every day of my life, to support this type of scenario all across this nation.

There you go. The working stiffs have been paying for the free ride (Entitlements) for way too long. I know I'm not alone here with my experience. I had tasks to do around the house while growing up, lived in the house shared the burden that goes with it. Had a paper route, worked a couple summers putting in hay on a local farm, did time in the Air Force, and up until recently worked for every thing I have. At the same time paying for the non working to also have the same or better. Didn't like it but no one ever said life was easy. But thanks to our elected knuckleheads that could find time to investigate steroids in baseball, travel to Afghanistan and Iraq for photo ops when they were up for reelection, but could not walk a couple blocks to see how the various government agencies that they oversee with funding are doing at enforcing the laws they pass. Now my 401 has been decimated, I'm unemployed, have no medical insurance and am looking for a job to do it all over again. Am I a sucker or what? I don't ask for any handouts or government bailouts, but I would like to see them to their job, and protect what I have worked and searved for.

Sorry rant over.

SKsolutions

inspiredsports wrote: »

The high cost of health care leading to a call towards socialized medicine, leading to the call for a unified currency was the unifying thread. We need to resist all of these and remain sovereign.

Great post. Instead of remaining sovereign, I see it as reclaiming our sovereignty, but I'm a true cynic.
In that vein: It seems that with every crisis that we face, there is a sacrifice due by those of us that pay for the whole scheme, yet no sacrifice due by those that only depend on it. After not having a choice in making the original sacrifice, there is a predictable anger and demand from the affected public to find someone to blame and prosecute. The finger is then pointed at the next crisis/cause. . . for which it seems there is another solution that requires further payment or intrusion of some kind. This practice ensures a couple of important things. It fosters being dependent upon the system over being independent, and makes possible legislation that would until just prior, be near impossible. It also produces a climate of blame, division and distraction. It's like we are being ushered down a dark and shady path with a myriad of branching crises prepared to bump us back on track and in the desired direction. This seems to be accelerating exponentially, uniquely similar to the explosion of our debt. In both cases the cost is growing.
Why do these crises seem to just sprout up when they've reached critical mass and require massive and instant action? No one knew that it was inevitable given the policy? Really?

inspiredsports

SKsolutions wrote: »

. . . why do these crises seem to just sprout up when they've reached critical mass and require massive and instant action? No one knew that it was inevitable given the policy? Really?

Great points, but there really was lots of fair warning, see post 132.

Hillbilly61

inspiredsports wrote: »

The high cost of health care leading to a call towards socialized medicine, leading to the call for a unified currency was the unifying thread. We need to resist all of these and remain sovereign.

Don't even get me started on the high cost of health care. Here's a real life example. It involves me. I broke my ankle last month and am currently in the cast.

My situation: Slipped on the ice and suffered a compound ankle fracture. That was during the evening, resulting in an ambulance ride; emergency set; two overnights in the hospital and surgury to pin and plate the mess back together.

Yesterday the bill came in: $16,147. :eek:

I reviewed the itemization. The costs were so out of control, as an example, the physical theropist's 1/2 hour to make sure I could use crutches was billed at $325 :eek: From what we could figure out to be the splint for the first day and crutches assigned during discharge cost a combined $550.

The surgery was very pricy (probably about half), but I can't guage if that was IMO reasonable or not. Something tells me it was inflated. Drugs for the two days there (mostly morphene) another $500 .... about 10 shots.

Thank God I have insurance. I can imagine what an appendectomy or something more major would cost.

Hillbilly61

Hillbilly61 wrote: »

Don't even get me started on the high cost of health care. Here's a real life example. It involves me. I broke my ankle last month and am currently in the cast.

My situation: Slipped on the ice and suffered a compound ankle fracture. That was during the evening, resulting in an ambulance ride; emergency set; two overnights in the hospital and surgury to pin and plate the mess back together.

Yesterday the bill came in: $16,147. :eek:

I reviewed the itemization. The costs were so out of control, as an example, the physical theropist's 1/2 hour to make sure I could use crutches was billed at $325 :eek: From what we could figure out to be the splint for the first day and crutches assigned during discharge cost a combined $550.

The surgery was very pricy (probably about half), but I can't guage if that was IMO reasonable or not. Something tells me it was inflated. Drugs for the two days there (mostly morphene) another $500 .... about 10 shots.

Thank God I have insurance. I can imagine what an appendectomy or something more major would cost.

I forgot. The above did not include the ambulance ride. That bill came in separately. To get in the ambulance cost $500. Traveling down the road to the hospital cost an additional $35/mile.

4406bbl

Fongolio wrote: »

Now this is exactly what both the US and Canada (and the rest of the world for that matter) needs. Intelligent, informed, educated, and rational discussion on these matters. For far too long too many people just accepted the status quo and this is where we end up. I believe that at the root of the problem in Canada and the US is the fact that we have exported so many of our jobs. How many TV's or Stereo's or computer parts are made in the US any more? The big three car manufacturers focused on big honking SUV's while the rest of the world developed excellent economy cars and sold huge amounts of them in the US and Canada. Everyone shops at Walmart where most of the stuff bought there is made overseas. Same with electronics. Most of the stuff sold in the Best Buy's and other big retailers is manufactured overseas. I truly hope that companies like Polk and Totem survive. Goods made in the US and Canada. The other big problem is US dependence on foreign oil. That dependence forces wars like in Iraq and Afghanistan. Why is the US sending more troops to Afghanistan? The pipeline. They need that oil. Why Iraq? Need to secure that oil. It has very little to do with terrorists or WMD's. Canada has lost a lot of soldiers in Afghanistan and for what? The city of New Orleans still lies in shambles and yet the US is still spending billions a month in Iraq. Does this make sense? One of Obama's really good idea's is that the US needs to become the world leader in alternate energy sources. That will lead to R and D and factories and people working and less dependence on foreign oil and less need for useless war. By the way unlike Obama I believe the US and Canada need to look at nuclear energy again. A large part of Europe has run safely on it for many decades. Three Mile Island and Chernobyl were serious human errors that can be avoided with tougher safety guidelines. That's a little more than two cents but it's just my opinion.

YES!!! I would have let aig, and bank of america fail, put the automakers in bankrupcy,and lent automakers money or loan gaurantees till they got back on their feet, that would create jobs. I was pissed by the thug politics Obama and his tax cheats threw at the automakers Somebody somewhere would have bought the bank assets and made a go of if, once you take failure off the table no amount of regulation will work. My problem with aig is the billions of my money that went to bailout european and other foreign interests,that money is gone, I bet they use it against us. The banks were regulated but nobody doing it was smart enough. New Orleans is in shambles because of their own mayor, police and some of the citizens, we have thrown tons of money at it, by the way I do not recall much help from around the globe. I know several people from the area who have their homes rebuilt and are doing fine, but they worked, had insurance like you and me. My opinion is do not build below sea level but what do I know I live on a hill. Some people you just can't help. I have never owned a foreign car so I can't share the blame there, in case you have not noticed foreign sales have dropped just as bad in the USA, try to sell a Prius right now nobody wants one, face the fact that the US consumer quit spending and started saving again, the rest of the world will suffer for a while, now if we could just get Obama to quit we would be in good shape. I roflmfao now that I hear we quit spending so the world economy is tanking, but we have heard for years we do not save enough, now we do and we are still wrong WTF? I doubt this generation will ever spend like they did,I know I won't, and if Obama keeps spending the next generation will have no money to spend, unless they become taxcheats, it does not look good for the rest of the world.

tonyb

inspiredsports wrote: »

It comes back to my post 2 above. Entitlements.

Our workforce needs to work for that home, car, healthcare plan, pension, microwave, dvd player, flatscreen and set of Polk's. Do you have any idea how "rich" the "poor" in this country are.

I'm about as extended as I can possibly be running 2 small businesses with 2 in college and 2 more entering in 2011 and 2013. Yet I supposedly made too much for assistance. Fine, I'll deal with it.

Yet one of my daughters boyfriend's has a family income of about zero. But they have everything they need provided by assistance, and I mean everything (nice suburban home, car, healthcare, flatscreen, etc.). And guess what, he's getting a FULL RIDE (tuition, books, room, board, meals and a campus job for spending money). I'm not even begrudging them that, but guess what? None of the family members work for fear they will lose the assistance.

I work 8-12 hours per day, nearly every day of my life, to support this type of scenario all across this nation.

Man,don't even get me started on entitlements,I have someone very close to me,that flat out refuses to work.Between all the entitlements,ya know,he doesn't have to.The wife and I get so angry over this stuff,but then at some point,you say to yourself,who's the fool? Now imagine fostering this way of thinking 10 fold by the policies comming out of washington.Leaves no incentive to make more money,because they will slap you back down with more taxes,while the moron who doesn't work,is sitting on his couch playing video games.This is why welfare is generational,and why your healthcare costs are what they are.