World Currency... US backs it?!

ND13 · April 2009

clarknova_666 wrote: »

Not that it makes any difference in reality, but the world would know that the American Spirit is alive.

We should try to have a huge symbolic rally, People all around the country, gather together (maybe several locations per state) everyone in the crowd stands tall with their right hand raised and they all take an oath:

"I do solemnly swear that I will to the best of my ability; preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, both foreign and domestic."

Now how do we go about making this happen?
For my part, I will contact the Campaign for Liberty to see if they would be interested in using their network of people to get the word out.

http://www.campaignforliberty.com/

We will need judges to administer the oath.
We will need press, maybe even take out advertisements if they won't run the story.

Just tell me when and where. I've already sworn once when I joined the Air Force, but I'd do it as many times as needed.

BTW, I'm not a whiner, I've written and e-mailed my representatives and Governor a few times. I think they must have went into the junk mail bin.

obieone · April 2009

I just hope the Queen of England is enjoying her new IPOD:p

I gotta say though, she looks a lot older than 13?:eek:

ND13 · April 2009

I hope the Prime Minister Brown is getting a kick out of his DVDs and his kids are enjoying their Marine One scaled replicas from the White House gift shop. Classy!!!

obieone · April 2009

Yes, I'm SOOOOOO glad that he's 'fixing' our image! DOH!

Btw, those dvd's weren't formatted correctly, so he probably isn't enjoying them too much. Even I knew there was a difference.

nooshinjohn · April 2009

obieone wrote: »

Yes, I'm SOOOOOO glad that he's 'fixing' our image! DOH!

Btw, those dvd's weren't formatted correctly, so he probably isn't enjoying them too much. Even I knew there was a difference.

LOL... I wonder what sort of gift the Queen gave the President...

BigMac · April 2009

nooshinjohn wrote: »

LOL... I wonder what sort of gift the Queen gave the President...

She gave a signed picture of herself.

ryanjoachim · April 2009

And a couple hundred year old desk made out of rare wood...

inspiredsports · April 2009

nooshinjohn · April 2009

inspiredsports wrote: »

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/cMnSp4qEXNM&color1=0xb1b1b1&color2=0xcfcfcf&hl=en&feature=player_embedded&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/cMnSp4qEXNM&color1=0xb1b1b1&color2=0xcfcfcf&hl=en&feature=player_embedded&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

You can spin it any way you like, but vote buying (everybody gets a house) by Barney Frank and Chuck Shcumer basically f'd us all, and I mean all as in the entire global economy. Those 2 basically spearheaded the sellout of the US Constitution. All of those "free lunches" (that were actually free houses) came out of your savings account, 401K, pension, business sales, taxes, etc. and especially out of your future: many 50 and over are in trouble, but EVERYONE under 50 is doomed to financial servitude to a world bank

I am glad to see that you did not drink the kool aid... time to vote out every single member of the house of reps in 2010 and replace the lot with new blood that is beholden to the people once more:cool:

MillerLiteScott · April 2009

I am going to call it the "Cleaning House Bill" on Capital Hill.

New Blood.

MrNightly · April 2009

Sweet count me in! I am young but full of energy! And I swore to protect my city and country too when I became an officer and even tho I am not one anymore, the only thing left to stand on us our constitution!

Bring it on!

Fongolio · April 2009

nooshinjohn wrote: »

I am glad to see that you did not drink the kool aid...

What is up with this kool-aid obsession? Nobody drank anything. They just formed their own opinions. Not everyone who thinks differently than you is a "sheep" or "drank the kool-aid". Why not just accept that some people don't believe in your ideals? It's perfectly ok. I accept that your opinions are different than mine and I don't have the need to say you are brainwashed or somehow less than me. Grow up.

nooshinjohn · April 2009

Fongolio wrote: »

What is up with this kool-aid obsession? Nobody drank anything. They just formed their own opinions. Not everyone who thinks differently than you is a "sheep" or "drank the kool-aid". Why not just accept that some people don't believe in your ideals? It's perfectly ok. I accept that your opinions are different than mine and I don't have the need to say you are brainwashed or somehow less than me. Grow up.

it is an expression that goes back a bit to when a guy by the name of Jim Jones took a bunch of his followers down to a small south anerican country where they all drank kool-aide and died because the Rev Jones told them to. It means simply that a person would rather do what someone tells them or believe what they are being fed by the media or whoever they are listening to rather than get the facts for themselves and form their own opinion on a subject, in this case the current U.S. political/economic situation. I am sorry but the last time I checked Canadiens were not considered U. S. citizens. I am sure the current administration wil allow you guys to vote in our elections soon enough:eek:. and in reference to your post, I agreed with the guy. The fact you don't agree with me actually has little merit in this case because what is being discussed here involves the previously mentioned American situation and what is taking place within our borders. Does it have an effect on the rest of the world, absolutely it does. but for you to be upset by my use of a phrase... I just don't care. perhaps a better use of your time would be to share your perspective on how our current plight affects our neighbors to the north. I would love to hear that perspective and welcome the dialog eh?

Fongolio · April 2009

I already knew where the phrase came from but thanks for "educating" me. And now because I'm Canadian I should be excluded from a discussion on a topic that has a very real effect on my life right now. Very close-minded. Your use of the phrase and others like calling people sheep is nothing but a put down from a mind that can not accept that others views may have merit. Again...grow up.

Fongolio · April 2009

First off. I shouldn't be using provocative phrases like "grow up" if I'm complaining about name calling. Sorry nooshinjohn. Now, do you invite my dialog as an informed educated and very self thinking but left wing Canadian or not? In the first part of your post you tell me to take a hike and in the edited part say you would like to hear the Canadian perspective. I have the right to post my thoughts either way but I'm curious as to how you feel about it.

4406bbl · April 2009

Fongolio wrote: »

I already knew where the phrase came from but thanks for "educating" me. And now because I'm Canadian I should be excluded from a discussion on a topic that has a very real effect on my life right now. Very close-minded. Your use of the phrase and others like calling people sheep is nothing but a put down from a mind that can not accept that others views may have merit. Again...grow up.

By all means please inform us Americans on how we are **** with your life in Canada, every other country has let us know so far I am all ears. Now as a preface I believe without a strong USA,canada does not exist along with all of Europe,agreed???

4406bbl · April 2009

Fongolio wrote: »

First off. I shouldn't be using provocative phrases like "grow up" if I'm complaining about name calling. Sorry nooshinjohn. Now, do you invite my dialog as an informed educated and very self thinking but left wing Canadian or not? In the first part of your post you tell me to take a hike and in the edited part say you would like to hear the Canadian perspective. I have the right to post my thoughts either way but I'm curious as to how you feel about it.

Where you at ??? America has fought every war, bailed out hundreds of governments, donated more money and aid around the world than Canada has in GDP, flame away. PLEASE tell me how I am **** with Canada and I will stop. DO NOT tell me it is economic because when you live or die via another countries economics any economic problems you have are your own fault, USA is not beholden to Canada or any other country.

Well, I see you went offline, take a little time and get back to me on how America is **** with your life, please come up with something new, not the same old worn out BS we have been hearing for years.

Fongolio · April 2009

4406bbl wrote: »

By all means please inform us Americans on how we are **** with your life in Canada, every other country has let us know so far I am all ears. Now as a preface I believe without a strong USA,canada does not exist along with all of Europe,agreed???

Interesting, I certainly didn't say any words even remotely close to "you Americans are **** with our lives". I commented on the fact that the current economic situation is having a very real effect in my life right now. That's all. Please don't read any more into it than that. And yes, Canada's economics are so closely tied to the US that of course a weak US economy has a large impact but to say that Canada cannot exist without a strong US is overstating it. If you are referring to strong US military than I totally agree. A big chunk of Europe as well. I work in the construction industry in Canada and am normally laid off fro a month or two in the winter. Happens every year. This year I was laid off in late November and am still not back working full time. The longest lay off in the 25 years I've worked this industry. In my area logging and sawmills have been very large industries. Almost all are shut down some permanently. Most of our business is exporting lumber to the US and of course no one's building houses. A glass bottle making factory that employed 2000 workers shut down to relocated in the southern US where labour is much cheaper. The other big industry in my area is tourism and that has been hit dramatically. A local ski hill saw a sharp decline in foreign bookings and all hotels in the area are at all time lows. A championship golf course (partly owned by Fred Couples) has gone bankrupt due to lack of foreign dollars and extremely low memberships. On and on I could go. This is in a town of just over 30,000. Is this the Americans fault? No. But it sure has a lot to do with how the banking and credit system got hit hard. Our overall banking situation is bad but not quite as bad as the US's due to tighter government regulations. So that's just a little insight from what happening north of the border near Spokane.

4406bbl · April 2009

Fongolio wrote: »

Interesting, I certainly didn't say any words even remotely close to "you Americans are **** with our lives". I commented on the fact that the current economic situation is having a very real effect in my life right now. That's all. Please don't read any more into it than that. And yes, Canada's economics are so closely tied to the US that of course a weak US economy has a large impact but to say that Canada cannot exist without a strong US is overstating it. If you are referring to strong US military than I totally agree. A big chunk of Europe as well. I work in the construction industry in Canada and am normally laid off fro a month or two in the winter. Happens every year. This year I was laid off in late November and am still not back working full time. The longest lay off in the 25 years I've worked this industry. In my area logging and sawmills have been very large industries. Almost all are shut down some permanently. Most of our business is exporting lumber to the US and of course no one's building houses. A glass bottle making factory that employed 2000 workers shut down to relocated in the southern US where labour is much cheaper. The other big industry in my area is tourism and that has been hit dramatically. A local ski hill saw a sharp decline in foreign bookings and all hotels in the area are at all time lows. A championship golf course (partly owned by Fred Couples) has gone bankrupt due to lack of foreign dollars and extremely low memberships. On and on I could go. This is in a town of just over 30,000. Is this the Americans fault? No. But it sure has a lot to do with how the banking and credit system got hit hard. Our overall banking situation is bad but not quite as bad as the US's due to tighter government regulations. So that's just a little insight from what happening north of the border near Spokane.

Without a strong USA there is no strong us military, and the world as we know it ends. We have a pres and congress that want to change America,I do not like it but it is good that the rest of the world gets a little taste of it too,as they were sooo supportive of Obama be careful what you wish for. Peace bro, I have no problems with you, its tough everywhere, 93% of Americans did not cause it,7% with dipshit loans and a few dipshit politicians did, and most Americans are pissed about it.

4406bbl · April 2009

Fongolio, the industries that are in the most trouble in America were the most regulated, banks,insurance,autos. Regulation is not the key, free market capitalism is, that way bad companies go broke, before they merge and become so big that they crash the world economy. The world said America did not matter, they found out they were wrong. we are the market. Things are looking up, new home sales in my area are picking up, I am buying another new home soon, as the deals are phenomenal, wood will flow south again. Keep faith in America.

Fongolio · April 2009

4406bbl wrote: »

Regulation is not the key, free market capitalism is, that way bad companies go broke,

So you believe the US government should simply have let AIG and GM and Chrysler and all the other companies that have been bailed out go under? I'm a lefty and I even I believe they should have been left to fend for themselves. Live by unfettered capitalism....die by unfettered capitalism. Where I differ in view is there were far too few regulations controlling the banks and insurance companies and they handed out insured loans willy nilly and had no way to back them all should the economy sink and here we are. By the way the US Government is a bad company that is broke. How many trillions in debt now with no forseeable way to pay it back. Canada is no different. We are in hideous debt and sinking further. Both these companies are broke. Let them sink?

nooshinjohn · April 2009

Fongolio wrote: »

So you believe the US government should simply have let AIG and GM and Chrysler and all the other companies that have been bailed out go under? I'm a lefty and I even I believe they should have been left to fend for themselves. Live by unfettered capitalism....die by unfettered capitalism. Where I differ in view is there were far too few regulations controlling the banks and insurance companies and they handed out insured loans willy nilly and had no way to back them all should the economy sink and here we are. By the way the US Government is a bad company that is broke. How many trillions in debt now with no forseeable way to pay it back. Canada is no different. We are in hideous debt and sinking further. Both these companies are broke. Let them sink?

thanks for backing away from the name calling as it is unproductive... and sadly yes, those companies that cannot survive should be allowed to go bankrupt. That said, the governments best role here would have been to assist them in every way possible to emerge from bankrupcy as quickly and a strongly as possible, and keep them going while under protection in the courts. In this manner, the car companies can end their union contracts and discharge legacy debt and pensions they can no longer afford. About 18% of the cost of a new US made vehicle are used to pay retiree pensions and healthcare. thats almost 10k on a 40k vehicle.
You mention us debt and I agree that it is totally out of hand. The US is the last country with money to throw around all over the globe as we do, and sadly much of the rest of the world keeps on taking. We should cut back on all spending... not eliminate, but cut back and take care of home first. Once we get our house in order, the we can pursue more benevolent causes from a position of strength rather than pledging a billion and asking for Chinas credit card to pay for it.

obieone · April 2009

Good news and bad news for all the Bush-bashers:

Good: Congress just passed a $3.5 TRILLION budget, penned exclusively by Obama.

Bad: You're now COMPLETELY out of ammo. They just passed a budget 7 TIMES what Barry inherited, so, you've got nowhere to run.
If this doesn't work out, it's ALL on YOU!

Ofcourse, you've all been teflon coated since Chappaquiddick, so.....

disneyjoe7 · April 2009

obieone wrote: »

Good news and bad news for all the Bush-bashers:

Good: Congress just passed a $3.5 TRILLION budget, penned exclusively by Obama.

Bad: You're now COMPLETELY out of ammo. They just passed a budget 7 TIMES what Barry inherited, so, you've got nowhere to run.
If this doesn't work out, it's ALL on YOU!

Ofcourse, you've all been teflon coated since Chappaquiddick, so.....

Don't worry it's still Bush tragedy

Hillbilly61 · April 2009

4406bbl wrote: »

Fongolio, the industries that are in the most trouble in America were the most regulated, banks,insurance,autos. Regulation is not the key, free market capitalism is, that way bad companies go broke, before they merge and become so big that they crash the world economy. The world said America did not matter, they found out they were wrong. we are the market. Things are looking up, new home sales in my area are picking up, I am buying another new home soon, as the deals are phenomenal, wood will flow south again. Keep faith in America.

I'm not so sure how regulated the auto industry is, but true banks and insurance are heavily regulated. What got things into trouble was the banks finding a NON-REGULATED loophole to take advantage of. They created investment arms that did not fall under banking regulations (technically not a bank) and told their banking arm to issue questionable loans and sell the loans to their investment arm.

A bank is limited by the amount of loans to cash it must have on hand. An investment company isn't. Therefore, they "sold" these loans to their investment arm, clearing the balance sheet ratio and off they went making loans again. Unfortunately, most of these sales were IOUs, not cash trading hands. To illustrate how bad it got, the entire Bank of America group was leveraged around 30:1, way insufficient cash to cover loans that do go bad. (Note, when things were good, BOA was making 30:1 on the bonds - with these risks came the rewards too)

To make this whole scam work, the investment arms sold the loans issued by their captive banking arm as bundled bonds. Doing so obligated the entire conglomerate to pay a monthly premium to whoever bought the bonds. It all came apart when the loans started going bad and A) payments dried up to their traditional banking arm first (the IOUs) and

then payments dried up to the investors who bought the bonds. Now, none of the banks will loan to another bank (might go under 'causing their loan to go bad). To make matters worse, the investment community will not buy real estate backed bonds, causing money to stay tied up in the loans supporting the bonds (and not recirculating it back into the economy).

The regional banks around here (too small to get into bundling loans and directly selling them as bonds) are all doing fine. The regulations prevented them from getting into this trap. So no, it was not regulations that got things into trouble.

It was folks who figured out a way to skirt the regulations that got us into trouble. The stage for all of this was set during Bush's first term, when the administration allowed banking to get into the investment arena by merely requiring them to set up a "independant" subsidary. The company I work for has four subsidaries. Not a single one of them are truely independent, but on paper they look independent.

Barefoot · April 2009

Hillbilly61 wrote: »

I'm not so sure how regulated the auto industry is, but true banks and insurance are heavily regulated. What got things into trouble was the banks finding a NON-REGULATED loophole to take advantage of. They created investment arms that did not fall under banking regulations (technically not a bank) and told their banking arm to issue questionable loans and sell the loans to their investment arm.

A bank is limited by the amount of loans to cash it must have on hand. An investment company isn't. Therefore, they "sold" these loans to their investment arm, clearing the balance sheet ratio and off they went making loans again. Unfortunately, most of these sales were IOUs, not cash trading hands. To illustrate how bad it got, the entire Bank of America group was leveraged around 30:1, way insufficient cash to cover loans that do go bad. (Note, when things were good, BOA was making 30:1 on the bonds - with these risks came the rewards too)

To make this whole scam work, the investment arms sold the loans issued by their captive banking arm as bundled bonds. Doing so obligated the entire conglomerate to pay a monthly premium to whoever bought the bonds. It all came apart when the loans started going bad and A) payments dried up to their traditional banking arm first (the IOUs) and then payments dried up to the investors who bought the bonds. Now, none of the banks will loan to another bank (might go under 'causing their loan to go bad). To make matters worse, the investment community will not buy real estate backed bonds, causing money to stay tied up in the loans supporting the bonds (and not recirculating it back into the economy).

The regional banks around here (too small to get into bundling loans and directly selling them as bonds) are all doing fine. The regulations prevented them from getting into this trap. So no, it was not regulations that got things into trouble.

It was folks who figured out a way to skirt the regulations that got us into trouble. The stage for all of this was set during Bush's first term, when the administration allowed banking to get into the investment arena by merely requiring them to set up a "independant" subsidary. The company I work for has four subsidaries. Not a single one of them are truely independent, but on paper they look independent.

Bingo.

tonyb · April 2009

Alot of you ,make alot of good points,But the root of the matter is not so much banks being heavily regulated,but by who and enforced by who.You can have all the laws in the world to regulate,control,any industry,but at the end of the day,if there is no enforcement,it all means diddly.So now,we need fall guys to cover up the asses of those truely responsible,good for public opnion but changes nothing.They will always find a work around to any legislation brought forth to control them.Take illegal immigration,alot of laws on the books,but no enforcement,so you get what we have today.It has and always will be about money and power,perception and deceit.

rayslifecycle · April 2009

Both parties are to blame - the trend can be followed from administration to administration toward this collapse. Yes - Bush policies caused a lot of what is happenning, however he couldn't have done half the stuff he did without the clinton administrations policies - 2 specific examples:

repeal of Glass Steagall was a cause;
http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/1042593/repeal_glasssteagallstiegel_act.html?cat=3

Fannie and Freddie legislation modification in 1993 was a cause
http://www.lewrockwell.com/paul/paul128.html

........and before that - check out what happened when they changed "Fair" Trade into "Free Trade" during the Regan administration as well as breaking down pensions and unions.....

and before that go into the Carter administration and then Ford and Nixon - they all had a hand because the New World Order; announced by Gordan Brown at the G20 yesterday, needed to knock the US off their educated/capitalized middle-class high-horse so that we could all merge into a global government.

rayslifecycle · April 2009

tonyb wrote: »

Take illegal immigration,alot of laws on the books,but no enforcement,so you get what we have today.It has and always will be about money and power,perception and deceit.

Illegal immigration is necessary. But probably not for what you may think.

The federal reserve uses our income as collateral on the money it loans the US government. This collateral is collected by the IRS and is called the federal income tax.

Right now the US government is overextended, so by increasing the number of "Documented workers", the US government can borrow more from the federal reserve. This is why the law is not enforced, and the legislation that they have been trying to pass is an amnesty bill designed to indebt the undocumented worker with a 2000 dollar fine and get them into the tax paying system.

Why do they not pay taxes? Why do they not get arrested for driving without insurance. (another interesting thread last week) Because according to the 14th amendment, all citizens born in the US are subject to the jurisdiction thereof - these people were not born here - therefore they are not citizens - therefore they are not subjects of the US government.

Unfortunately none of us knew this when we were signed up as infants by our parents.......

Rock on and keep this great thread going

inspiredsports · April 2009

Fongolio wrote: »

What is up with this kool-aid obsession? Nobody drank anything. They just formed their own opinions. Not everyone who thinks differently than you is a "sheep" or "drank the kool-aid". Why not just accept that some people don't believe in your ideals? It's perfectly ok. I accept that your opinions are different than mine and I don't have the need to say you are brainwashed or somehow less than me. Grow up.

I'm not picking on you, but your post represented what I want to comment upon. "Drinking the Kool-Aid" is a euphemism representing the masterful job the left had done in subjugating the US Constitution.

No on has a "right" to a home, or a job, or a pension, or free health care. No one has a "right" to a car, a microwave oven, a VCR or a pair of Polks. But if you ask 90% of the kids/young adults (and many adults who should know better) in the US (or the world for that matter), they believe these are "rights". They believe people are "entitled" to them without performing even a lick of work.

Rugged Individualism and success has now been officially rewarded with punitive taxation to pay for all of those "supposed" freebies. And if they couldn't get it into a tax bill, they (the Democrats led by Frank and Schumer) got it into the banking system in the form of essentially free houses for those who were not qualified.

You may not even be aware of it if you are not comfortably familiar with the US Constitution, but more than 50% of the US electorate (as demonstrated in the last election) have been "Drinking the Kool-Aid" for a long, long time.

. . . just my 2 cents worth.

World Currency... US backs it?!

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