Beaten to death , but have to vent

brettw22

JohnLocke88 wrote: »

It's the fact that in order to justify his purchase, he has to rag on your system, that's truly annoying.

The hypocrisy of this statement being that this thread exists, bashing his system to justify yours.....right?

While we recognize that Bose doesn't sound as good to our ears, it's a bit much to bash everyone who buys their stuff. My mom mentioned getting them and the first thing out of my mouth was NO........then mentioned the RM series....

Educate people best you can, and let them do whatever they want. NO ONE likes to hear that they spent their money stupidly........yourselves included.

brettw22

There's a vast difference between tax dollars (common money) as opposed to how your neighbor spends HIS money on what HE wants. You really don't see that?

brettw22

My point is that your input on your friends system is worthless (worth zilch) when it comes to him spending HIS/HER money.......

What if he told you that your wife's a heffer and if it were up to him you'd be married to someone that he deemed better quality then made comments about her every time he was around you and her?

The point is, it's not your money. Show someone an alternative, then let it be......I don't know why someone else's purchase should ever affect you negatively......

donedroolin

I don't care what they spend thier money on. I NEVER bashed on his system. He works hard for his money and is proud of his Bose system.(That is why I vented here). I understand that, I am proud of my setup and love it and enjoy peoples reactions when they listen to it. I have allot of other friends that have bought complete HT setups from the box from a Coby to an Onkyo. Some are not bad they are timbre matched and normally they give you a receiver with enough power to drive the speakers that came with the system. Allot of my friends have only seen my setup and never heard it. Anyway I did help my buddy from advanced setup his Bose. The room is small like 8' by 10' and you know what in that room his Bose sounded pretty good for what they are. He is happy with his purchase and that is great.

Monster Jam

Oh man. Where to go with this one. Two of my good friends have Bose, I'll circle back and get to those stories in a minute.

So I'm looking at your gear (in particular the Halo gear) and see that you have put together a very good audio package. And here comes your friend fresh from Best Buy with his Lifestyle system. Then he goes and makes a comment. I feel your pain.

You did the right thing: take the high road, vent here and let it go without remark to your friend.

First, let me qualify that Bose is not a bad product, but in agreement with an earlier post, you really shouldn't compare Bose with other high-fidelity systems.

My experience:

Friend A bought Lifestyle, but is low key about it. He knows Im a bit of a home-theatre and audio buff, and recognizes that he overpaid slightly for what he got. But he is happy with it. Fair enough. In his case, Bose I believe was the right purchase decision for him.

Friend B bought a new TV and went on and on about how much better it was than my old 1080i RP HDTV. I humbly agreed, jeoulous of his new purchase. Then went on to compare his Bose to my LSi/Velodyne audio center. I quickly put him in his place - there WAS no comparison to be made there - his system is clearly inferior to anyone with a serious component theatre system.

sdcfan18

Tisk, tisk.

Read the bottom of my sig...'nuff said!

donedroolin

I don't know how they can compare speakers either. I did take Dennis Gardners suggestion and offered for my friend (the first one) to bring his Bose to my house. He said no I have the wires all hid and it is to much work. I told him I have some Audio Qeust speaker wire,(better then the crap that came with the BOSE) and I would come over to help pick it up. So it would not be that much trouble. He said we will see maybe next weekend. But you know what, WHY, who cares. I don't really care. What is it going to prove he wasted his money. Let him be happy with what he bought. The only test I may do is try Transformers at his house then play the same scenes at my house. I wanna see that Bose Sub hang with my Velodyne. For some reason that bugs me allot that he thinks his sub will shake the house as he puts it better then mine. I'm just being wacky I guess but that bugs me. Any how, been good VENTING to people who understand. THANKS!!!!!!!!!!

Igo

donedroolin wrote: »

My good friend, against all the advice I gave him went to Best buy and let the salesman talk him into buying a Bose Life style HT system. It has those tiny cube speakers he thinks is great. Thats Ok for him, but then he starts comparing those little pieces of CRAP to my LSi15's. How could you even compare these two totally different speakers. He thinks they are just as good as my POLKs. I had to hold back from laughing in his face. And the sub, I think it has three 5 or 6 inch woofers ( if you can even call them woofers ) he thinks is the ultimate and says, puts out just as much if not better base then my Velodyne. He thinks because he spent $2000.00 dollars on it. It is gold, What a Misconception. SORRY to beat a dead horse but had to vent.

It is often times said that you cannot discuss sex, religion or politics with friends or loved ones. Maybe it can be said the audio cannot be discussed either.

cnh

donedroolin wrote: »

My good friend, against all the advice I gave him went to Best buy and let the salesman talk him into buying a Bose Life style HT system. It has those tiny cube speakers he thinks is great. Thats Ok for him, but then he starts comparing those little pieces of CRAP to my LSi15's. How could you even compare these two totally different speakers. He thinks they are just as good as my POLKs. I had to hold back from laughing in his face. And the sub, I think it has three 5 or 6 inch woofers ( if you can even call them woofers ) he thinks is the ultimate and says, puts out just as much if not better base then my Velodyne. He thinks because he spent $2000.00 dollars on it. It is gold, What a Misconception. SORRY to beat a dead horse but had to vent.

I'm having a little trouble understanding why some of you think Donedroolin shouldn't have the right to vent? As someone said above...it's not like he told his friend, hey you're whatever? No, rather than create such a mess. He decided to vent to a community that, BTW, happens to agree with him.

We all know that a lot of audio is subjective, but some of us draw the line at Bose. Let me just say that "I made a joke" there.

Vent on, but do it here!

cnh

comfortablycurt

I think it's time for me to find out what all the hype is about. I've just decided to sell my Onkyo and the Monitor 7's, and purchase a Bose system. Yes...you will all be jealous of my infinitely superior Bose Lifestyle system. It has an Acoustimass bass module!! It's so uber-badass that it's beyond even being called a subwoofer. It's a module!!!

devani

you didn't let your friendship fall by not bashing him....that's exactly what you did.....just venting in polk forums about other choices he could've made....I never said good or bad...it doesn't matter

congrats for keeping your mouth shut....I take it you had some exercise with your wife for keeping your mouth shut....that way everyone wins

edbert

Well, I have to vent a little as well. While my dad has a Bose system in their living room, the vent is not about him. He is super proud of it and for the TV watching he does, it works just fine.

The vent it about my father-in-law. My mother-in-law wanted to get him surround sound one Christmas and sent my brother-in-law out to purchase him a system. He came back with a nice Onkyo receiver and a Polk HTIB type system. I was really surprised was glad that he didn't give in to the hype the salesman was apparently trying to throw at him about the Bose systems. The problems started when he turned it on and has kept it on 7-channel stereo ever since. When he got a new HD TV and HD service he upgraded to a Toslink cable which forced him to have the sound in Dolby Digital surround sound. He was actually convinced that the receiver was broken. He finally replaced it with a Yamaha unit when the Onkyo unit started overheating. And so now we get to listen to 7 channel stereo all over again. While I change it every time I go over there, he inevitably changes it back.

My wife and I laugh about it because when it is actually on the surround sound setting and we are watching a football game or something and you hear the crowd around you like you are supposed to, he almost always throws out a "What's that noise?" to which my wife replies, "That's the surround sound." He generally replies back, "Wow, that's cool!" and then changes it back to 7ch stereo.

donedroolin

It was hard not to say negative things about his Bose. He agreed to do some sound comparisions this weekend. Like I said just alittle with Transformers. He already told me I can not use my Blu Ray copy, that is fine. I am really up in the air about doing it, Do I really care, Do I want him to realize he wasted his money. We already know he can't turn it up as loud without that strange sound. He is happy with his purchase, I probally will try to let it rest. If he keeps the sub crap up however,I may have to let my Velodyne KICK the CRAP out of his BASS Module. Sounds like your father in law just does not get it. They get set in thier ways and it is hard for them to change. You have sat him down and have him listen to the difference and explained it to him. Good luck with that.

inspiredsports

I think there is a big difference is the way people listen to their systems. Many don't even know how to compare what they are hearing because there are so many variables.

Some are aware of range, soundstage height, width and depth, presence, decay, on and on. Some only think in terms of "good" or "bad".

Your friend won't even know what he's missing unless he sits in the sweet spot of your system for hours and hours, and then goes home and listens to the exact same music on his.

PSOVLSK

I had a friend who got a new Bose system several years ago. I helped him wire the system and when we finished and listened to it for the first time he throws out the quote that I now think of every time I think about Bose: "You've got to pay to play."

kneedragger37

donedroolin wrote: »

I am really up in the air about doing it, Do I really care, Do I want him to realize he wasted his money. We already know he can't turn it up as loud without that strange sound. He is happy with his purchase, I probally will try to let it rest.

Donedroolin, I wouldn't worry about bringing your friend's dreams about his awesome bose system crashing down. Chances are, your friend won't be able to tell the difference between the two systems, or even worse, through the awesome power of psycho-acoustics, he may likely even think his bose system sounds better than yours, simply because he wants it to.

Almost 2 decades of engineering concerts for a wide variety of performers has taught me a number of things, and two of them are:

1) When listening to a concert, most people (we're talking 99%) cannot differentiate between a $100,000 pro-audio rig and a $500 self-powered setup from MusiciansFriend.com. Likewise, most people cannot differentiate, when watching a movie, between a $200 HTIB from Wal-Mart and audiophile speakers that cost $20,000 a pair. They know one is louder, but that's about it. They don't have the ability to discern the difference, and more important, they don't have the desire to develop that ability.

2) People hear what they think they hear -- perception is reality, in other words. When I've been working in crappy clubs with zero headroom, I knew turning the monitors up past a certain point would cause massive amounts of feedback. When musicians would routinely ask me for more vocal, guitar, or whatever in their monitors, i would simply grab a knob and make a twisting motion with my arm -- and then watch their facial expression as their brain made them hear what their eyes were telling them they should be hearing. Likewise, all the information your friend has in his brain, from advertising, from salespeople at big box electronics stores, etc etc., is telling him his Bose system is the gold standard of home theater should sound better than anything else out there, so that is very likely what he will hear.

And this weekend, you will likely sit on you couch next to him absolutely dumbfounded, unable to figure out how he can sit and listen to the same thing as you, and keep a straight face as he tells you his system clearly sounds better.

After being in this industry for this long, some might consider me realistic, and some might consider me jaded, but either way, the best advice I can give you is simply enjoy the system you have invested in, and don't worry about what other people, who have neither the ability nor the desire to know the difference, think sounds good.

Igo

edbert wrote: »

Well, I have to vent a little as well. While my dad has a Bose system in their living room, the vent is not about him. He is super proud of it and for the TV watching he does, it works just fine.

The vent it about my father-in-law. My mother-in-law wanted to get him surround sound one Christmas and sent my brother-in-law out to purchase him a system. He came back with a nice Onkyo receiver and a Polk HTIB type system. I was really surprised was glad that he didn't give in to the hype the salesman was apparently trying to throw at him about the Bose systems. The problems started when he turned it on and has kept it on 7-channel stereo ever since. When he got a new HD TV and HD service he upgraded to a Toslink cable which forced him to have the sound in Dolby Digital surround sound. He was actually convinced that the receiver was broken. He finally replaced it with a Yamaha unit when the Onkyo unit started overheating. And so now we get to listen to 7 channel stereo all over again. While I change it every time I go over there, he inevitably changes it back.

My wife and I laugh about it because when it is actually on the surround sound setting and we are watching a football game or something and you hear the crowd around you like you are supposed to, he almost always throws out a "What's that noise?" to which my wife replies, "That's the surround sound." He generally replies back, "Wow, that's cool!" and then changes it back to 7ch stereo.

That's just about the funniest thing I've ever heard. The movie played in my head as you narrated. How funny. You go Dad! HAhAHHaA

Igo

donedroolin wrote: »

It was hard not to say negative things about his Bose. He agreed to do some sound comparisions this weekend. Like I said just alittle with Transformers. He already told me I can not use my Blu Ray copy, that is fine. I am really up in the air about doing it, Do I really care, Do I want him to realize he wasted his money. We already know he can't turn it up as loud without that strange sound. He is happy with his purchase, I probally will try to let it rest. If he keeps the sub crap up however,I may have to let my Velodyne KICK the CRAP out of his BASS Module. Sounds like your father in law just does not get it. They get set in thier ways and it is hard for them to change. You have sat him down and have him listen to the difference and explained it to him. Good luck with that.

If you have a side firing sub, just sit it facing the "Module". First Transformer trash will simply tip the "Module" over. LOL

Igo

PSOVLSK wrote: »

I had a friend who got a new Bose system several years ago. I helped him wire the system and when we finished and listened to it for the first time he throws out the quote that I now think of every time I think about Bose: "You've got to pay to play."

Then you charged him a $500 installation fee?

mantis

You know many people bash Bose but I find them to satisfy a need. I think they make strong products and they don't fail as much as many others do. Most people who get them love them. I don't remember the last customer I installed a Bose system that didn't love it.
When you get down to it, they offer a lot for your money. A Rf universal remote that will work your tv and cablebox with ease. They have built in DVD players and now some HDMI switching. I like it. I don't own it myself as my needs are different but I would put one in my Masterbed and use it for night time watching. Allday.

Dan

Bass_Pedal

donedroolin,

I hope your listening tests on the weekend goes well. I don't know if comparing the systems using HT is going hit the home run that it should versus music. Bose trash is tailor made for HT, and although there are massive frequency holes in the overall sound presentation, for movies with lots of gun fire and explosions your going to get what people want to hear: high and low frequencies. Of course your Velo is going to crush his "module" but bass output is only the tip of the iceberg when it comes to the differences between your system and his. If you can get him to go for a two channel comparison with music, you just using your lsi mains (no Velo) and he using his front two cubes with the module (got to give him something) Then put on his favorite CD. The differences will be so jaw dropping that the most untrained audio newb should be knocked on his a$$. If that don't work, give it up, he's beyond saving!

cnh

That's a great point Bass_Pedal. Two channel stereo is a horribly revealing format that tiny satellites and a bass module will not survive.

cnh

kneedragger37

mantis wrote: »

You know many people bash Bose but I find them to satisfy a need. I think they make strong products and they don't fail as much as many others do. Most people who get them love them. I don't remember the last customer I installed a Bose system that didn't love it.

Bass-Pedal wrote:

Bose trash is tailor made for HT, and although there are massive frequency holes in the overall sound presentation, for movies with lots of gun fire and explosions your going to get what people want to hear: high and low frequencies.

I partially agree with both of you -- because you're both pretty much saying the same thing. Mantis, you are right -- Bose does satisfy a need -- the need of the person who wants to have more sound than what the speakers in their TV set provide, who have the money to pay for it but not the desire to spend time researching, auditioning, and developing an ear that can hear the benefits of other, better sounding audio gear. These folks get a system that is clearly better than the speakers in their TVs, and they love them because they are better than the speakers in their TVs -- too much more thought doesn't go into the process.

Want proof? Surf around to the different AV forums and see how many people are looking for advice on how to fine-tune their Bose cube systems -- you won't find too many (I've never seen one myself), because generally, they don't have the desire to make their systems sound better, I don't know if it's even possible to make them sound better, and even if the desire of the owner and capability of the speaker existed, the owners generally wouldn't have the ability to hear the difference.

On the other hand, Bass_Pedal, while you also say that Bose fills that niche of providing volume and frequencies that people normally wouldn't get from their TV sets, I don't think that makes Bose "trash". As mantis points out, the build quality of the product isn't bad, and their failure rate is likely commensurate with other products in their high-end price point. The fact is that the Bose people recognized a niche and filled it. This makes them savvy business people, and while their products do not create the type of sound that most of us would consider "high-end," filling a niche does not make them manufacturers of trash.

kneedragger37

cnh wrote: »

That's a great point Bass_Pedal. Two channel stereo is a horribly revealing format that tiny satellites and a bass module will not survive.

cnh

You are right, two channel stereo is very revealing, but it's not a fair test. Donedroolin's friend didn't buy a Bose system to revel in highly detailed stereo music -- he bought it to hear fighter jets and spaceships fly around his living room. A system that can do both Home Theater and two-channel stereo equally well is the holy grail of those of us who have the time, desire, and ability to pursue high-end audio gear -- saying someone mis-spent their money on a Bose system because it won't do both is like saying they mis-spent their money on a motorcycle because they can't drive it in the snow -- it's just not made to do that.

Bass_Pedal

kneedragger37 wrote: »

You are right, two channel stereo is very revealing, but it's not a fair test. Donedroolin's friend didn't buy a Bose system to revel in highly detailed stereo music -- he bought it to hear fighter jets and spaceships fly around his living room. A system that can do both Home Theater and two-channel stereo equally well is the holy grail of those of us who have the time, desire, and ability to pursue high-end audio gear -- saying someone mis-spent their money on a Bose system because it won't do both is like saying they mis-spent their money on a motorcycle because they can't drive it in the snow -- it's just not made to do that.

Point taken, but in saying that are we then conceding that this Bose set-up is not designed for music therefore should only be used HT? I don't think the owner of the system would agree. Perhaps a fairer comparison would be to play a CD matrixed to 5.1 on both systems, that way he gets to utilize all the Bose engineering to it's full effect. This comparison should still knock his teeth out.

Hawkeye

kneedragger37 wrote: »

I partially agree with both of you -- because you're both pretty much saying the same thing. Mantis, you are right -- Bose does satisfy a need -- the need of the person who wants to have more sound than what the speakers in their TV set provide, who have the money to pay for it but not the desire to spend time researching, auditioning, and developing an ear that can hear the benefits of other, better sounding audio gear. These folks get a system that is clearly better than the speakers in their TVs, and they love them because they are better than the speakers in their TVs -- too much more thought doesn't go into the process.

Want proof? Surf around to the different AV forums and see how many people are looking for advice on how to fine-tune their Bose cube systems -- you won't find too many (I've never seen one myself), because generally, they don't have the desire to make their systems sound better, I don't know if it's even possible to make them sound better, and even if the desire of the owner and capability of the speaker existed, the owners generally wouldn't have the ability to hear the difference.

On the other hand, Bass_Pedal, while you also say that Bose fills that niche of providing volume and frequencies that people normally wouldn't get from their TV sets, I don't think that makes Bose "trash". As mantis points out, the build quality of the product isn't bad, and their failure rate is likely commensurate with other products in their high-end price point. The fact is that the Bose people recognized a niche and filled it. This makes them savvy business people, and while their products do not create the type of sound that most of us would consider "high-end," filling a niche does not make them manufacturers of trash.

Wow! Neither a fanboy or flame thrower post. One of the few posts in this thread which reveals somebody's ego is in check:D

Gordon

kneedragger37

Bass_Pedal wrote: »

Point taken, but in saying that are we then conceding that this Bose set-up is not designed for music therefore should only be used HT? I don't think the owner of the system would agree. Perhaps a fairer comparison would be to play a CD matrixed to 5.1 on both systems, that way he gets to utilize all the Bose engineering to it's full effect. This comparison should still knock his teeth out.

Any comparison will knock his teeth out to us. The people on this forum have (hopefully) developed a discerning ear and a taste for fine audio equipment, and so have the ability to objectively determine which speakers are superior. And I'm not saying that the Bose set-up should never be used for music, only that it's designed to do the best work it's capable of when used for movies (you can ride a motorcycle in snow -- it just doesn't work very well). And while you may be right that the owner of the system might say he wants the system to play music sometimes as well, he most likely does not have the ability to tell the difference between his Bose set-up and a more versatile HT system, and even if he does he probably wouldn't care anyway.

The possibility with the greatest likelihood is that he will think his Bose system sounds great with music because he has an undiscerning ear and no point of reference to compare to.

ckphoto

When I built my first system 17 years ago I spent a bundle on Bose, acoustimass 7's and 5's still have the receipt $2,600. I thought they were the best until I just UPGRADED to Polk
the difference is tremendous the bose sound is so tiny and lacking next to them. But before I heard the difference for myself I was victim of the hype and always talked them up.

kneedragger37

ckphoto wrote: »

When I built my first system 17 years ago I spent a bundle on Bose, acoustimass 7's and 5's still have the receipt $2,600. I thought they were the best until I just UPGRADED to Polk
the difference is tremendous the bose sound is so tiny and lacking next to them. But before I heard the difference for myself I was victim of the hype and always talked them up.

Congratulations on your upgrade -- and it only took you 17 years to realize the error of your ways! :D:D

I think that with your experience you could probably contribute to this discussion quite a bit; what did you end up buying from Polk, and more importantly, what was it that clued you in that the Bose system wasn't all it was cracked up to be?

ckphoto

I was at a Christmas party and they had RTi10s and I was extremely impressed with there sound. Unfortunately I had just purchased a new 73" Mitsubishi and a new receiver the Yamaha Rx-V663 so the wife said no to new speakers. I started looking for used and came across a excellent deal for $325 I got 2-RTi70's, 4-FXi50's, 1-CSi40 and a Monster PowerCenter HTS 3600 MKII. Only 2 of the FXi50's are hooked up right now until I move to my den which is going to be a dedicated home theater. I also picked up a PSW-120 from a Polk member, the sound I have now is night and day compared to my Bose.