Why is MIT cables better?

245

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  • WilliamM2
    WilliamM2 Posts: 4,776
    edited January 2009
    disneyjoe7 wrote: »
    How did you know? Is it something they told you? Where's the test?

    Here's one test, even MIT employee's couldn't pick out their own cables from generic 16 gauge zip cord. The tester? Some guy named Frank Van Alstine.

    http://www.audiocircle.com/circles/index.php?topic=60159.msg539789#msg539789
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  • NJPOLKER
    NJPOLKER Posts: 3,474
    edited January 2009
    WilliamM2 wrote: »
    Here's one test, even MIT employee's couldn't pick out their own cables from generic 16 gauge zip cord. The tester? Some guy named Frank Van Alstine.

    http://www.audiocircle.com/circles/index.php?topic=60159.msg539789#msg539789

    I don't even have to read the attachment to know something is wrong. I don't know Fank Van Alstine but I have heard for myself the difference cables make.
    Drew
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  • disneyjoe7
    disneyjoe7 Posts: 11,435
    edited January 2009
    WilliamM2 wrote: »
    Here's one test, even MIT employee's couldn't pick out their own cables from generic 16 gauge zip cord. The tester? Some guy named Frank Van Alstine.

    http://www.audiocircle.com/circles/index.php?topic=60159.msg539789#msg539789



    Well to be honest I don't believe that crap. I got a Blue Jean cable on my center and I feel its missing something right now with MIT cables used for L / R :(

    In fact I use AudioQuest bedrock speakers wires normally, they sound different then this MIT setup. :mad:

    Speakers
    Carver Amazing Fronts
    CS400i Center
    RT800i's Rears
    Sub Paradigm Servo 15

    Electronics
    Conrad Johnson PV-5 pre-amp
    Parasound Halo A23
    Pioneer 84TXSi AVR
    Pioneer 79Avi DVD
    Sony CX400 CD changer
    Panasonic 42-PX60U Plasma
    WMC Win7 32bit HD DVR


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  • WilliamM2
    WilliamM2 Posts: 4,776
    edited January 2009
    disneyjoe7 wrote: »
    Well to be honest I don't believe that crap.

    Well you asked the question. Sorry if you didn't like the answer.
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  • Ricardo
    Ricardo Posts: 10,636
    edited January 2009
    WilliamM2 wrote: »
    Here's one test, even MIT employee's couldn't pick out their own cables from generic 16 gauge zip cord.

    I don't think having good ears is a requirement to build cables :rolleyes:
    _________________________________________________
    ***\\\\\........................... My Audio Journey ............................./////***

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    Thank God for different opinions. Imagine the world if we all wanted the same woman
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  • inspiredsports
    inspiredsports Posts: 5,501
    edited January 2009
    WilliamM2 wrote: »
    Well you asked the question. Sorry if you didn't like the answer.

    The original poster asked "Why are MIT's cables better", NOT "Why are they not better".

    MIT designs to a plan. They have a theory that resistance, capacitance and inductance matter, and they build accordingly. They use high-quality wire, teflon insulation, sheathing and connectors and a carefully valued network component to correct measurable problems. That costs money.

    Yes opinions about sound vary. Most over 30 have some degree of hearing loss (and many under 30 don't have a firm basis of reference). You probably don't hear the same improvements or problems that 1,000 others in the forum hear.

    Quantitatively this brand does quite well, Qualitatively they do quite well also, but not for everyone.
    VTL ST50 w/mods / RCA6L6GC / TlfnknECC801S
    Conrad Johnson PV-5 w/mods
    TT Conrad Johnson Sonographe SG3 Oak / Sumiko LMT / Grado Woodbody Platinum / Sumiko PIB2 / The Clamp
    Musical Fidelity A1 CDPro/ Bada DD-22 Tube CDP / Conrad Johnson SD-22 CDP
    Tuners w/mods Kenwood KT5020 / Fisher KM60
    MF x-DAC V8, HAInfo NG27
    Herbies Ti-9 / Vibrapods / MIT Shotgun AC1 IEC's / MIT Shotgun 2 IC's / MIT Shotgun 2 Speaker Cables
    PS Audio Cryo / PowerPort Premium Outlets / Exact Power EP15A Conditioner
    Walnut SDA 2B TL /Oak SDA SRS II TL (Sonicaps/Mills/Cardas/Custom SDA ICs / Dynamat Extreme / Larry's Rings/ FSB-2 Spikes
    NAD SS rigs w/mods
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  • disneyjoe7
    disneyjoe7 Posts: 11,435
    edited January 2009
    Thanks guys, yes I hear a difference so something is there for sure. I just wonder if the network is adding to sound to correct something the cable does for the length of wire itself. It's hard to believe an Interconnect of 3' could be corrected as is hard to believe something 3 feet under 20khz as any lose. I mean the sound grows on ya, but so would crack, heroin, or whatever blue green red.

    Speakers
    Carver Amazing Fronts
    CS400i Center
    RT800i's Rears
    Sub Paradigm Servo 15

    Electronics
    Conrad Johnson PV-5 pre-amp
    Parasound Halo A23
    Pioneer 84TXSi AVR
    Pioneer 79Avi DVD
    Sony CX400 CD changer
    Panasonic 42-PX60U Plasma
    WMC Win7 32bit HD DVR


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  • janmike
    janmike Posts: 6,146
    edited January 2009
    Steve, good sex can do that to you as well. :D

    Drugs mask reality and if you think cables are doing that as well, then eliminate the cables. It's as simple as that. Get your wife to do a blind test with you.
    Michael ;)
    In the beginning, all knowledge was new!
    NORTH of 60°
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  • disneyjoe7
    disneyjoe7 Posts: 11,435
    edited January 2009
    Drug, Sex can we have Rock and Roll?

    Speakers
    Carver Amazing Fronts
    CS400i Center
    RT800i's Rears
    Sub Paradigm Servo 15

    Electronics
    Conrad Johnson PV-5 pre-amp
    Parasound Halo A23
    Pioneer 84TXSi AVR
    Pioneer 79Avi DVD
    Sony CX400 CD changer
    Panasonic 42-PX60U Plasma
    WMC Win7 32bit HD DVR


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  • janmike
    janmike Posts: 6,146
    edited January 2009
    The last 2 for sure.
    Michael ;)
    In the beginning, all knowledge was new!
    NORTH of 60°
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  • WilliamM2
    WilliamM2 Posts: 4,776
    edited January 2009
    Keiko wrote: »
    We get it William. You're one that believes cables don't make a significant difference. What I don't get is why you gotta stir the f*ckin pot on these discussions every time? :confused:

    Every time? More like 1 in 100, don't exagerate. And I wasn't stirring the pot, he asked where the test was I answered, Try not to get so worked up.
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  • Face
    Face Posts: 14,340
    edited January 2009
    William, you're such a martyr.
    "He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." Friedrich Nietzsche
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  • SEH
    SEH Posts: 91
    edited January 2009
    disneyjoe7 wrote: »
    Thanks guys, yes I hear a difference so something is there for sure. I just wonder if the network is adding to sound to correct something the cable does for the length of wire itself. It's hard to believe an Interconnect of 3' could be corrected as is hard to believe something 3 feet under 20khz as any lose.

    I don't think it can add anything to the sound. If there's loss in the cable, you can't add it back with a passive device.

    It's technically removing something from the sound, something the designer thinks shouldn't be there. Read what mantis posted. Maybe they've figured out some way to subdue high frequency non-linear distortion.

    I don't know the exact details of the blind listening tests that supposedly "prove" something about these cables, but I know the qualities that lead to fatigue aren't always immediately apparent as something that will cause fatigue. At least, not until you've listened to something long enough to feel it, and then your memory causes you to zero in on what annoys you, and you just get fatigued faster and faster until you give up on that gear. So I think most blind tests prove short-term listening conclusions are unreliable more than anything else.
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  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 50,572
    edited January 2009
    Transparent and MIT split but they both use almost the same exact technology. They both will tell you "they do it better" then the other but with my experience with the 2 companies, they sound almost exactly the same.

    No, they don't and no, they don't.

    And yes William, you do.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

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  • WilliamM2
    WilliamM2 Posts: 4,776
    edited January 2009
    Face wrote: »
    William, you're such a martyr.

    Martyr? I don't recall sacrificing my life or personal freedom for any particular cause.:confused:
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  • daboyz
    daboyz Posts: 5,207
    edited January 2009
    Keiko - At the latest RAS meeting we demo'd MIT's and they were hands down the winner of the day. They are definitely a great cable and made me go out and buy IC's and speaker cables.
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  • disneyjoe7
    disneyjoe7 Posts: 11,435
    edited January 2009
    daboyz wrote: »
    Keiko - At the latest RAS meeting we demo'd MIT's and they were hands down the winner of the day. They are definitely a great cable and made me go out and buy IC's and speaker cables.


    I knew I wasn't going to like that / this demo of cables.


    You **** ;)

    Speakers
    Carver Amazing Fronts
    CS400i Center
    RT800i's Rears
    Sub Paradigm Servo 15

    Electronics
    Conrad Johnson PV-5 pre-amp
    Parasound Halo A23
    Pioneer 84TXSi AVR
    Pioneer 79Avi DVD
    Sony CX400 CD changer
    Panasonic 42-PX60U Plasma
    WMC Win7 32bit HD DVR


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  • daboyz
    daboyz Posts: 5,207
    edited January 2009
    disneyjoe7 wrote: »
    I knew I wasn't going to like that / this demo of cables.


    You **** ;)

    It's good to be a **** when you've got great cables.:p:D
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  • daboyz
    daboyz Posts: 5,207
    edited January 2009
    Keiko wrote: »
    I wanna be a fargin bastige. :cool:

    Yes you will be.......









    Once you upgrade.;)
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  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,171
    edited January 2009
    WilliamM2 wrote: »
    Here's one test, even MIT employee's couldn't pick out their own cables from generic 16 gauge zip cord. The tester? Some guy named Frank Van Alstine.

    http://www.audiocircle.com/circles/index.php?topic=60159.msg539789#msg539789

    Let it go dude........................your anti-cable crusade is well known. He can hear a difference, I can hear a difference and many others can too. You're way off topic here. We get it..............you don;t believe. No one asked if they could hear a difference.......he asked why he could hear a difference.

    You're bordering on the lunatic fringe always chiming in when your info isn't remotely relevant. We get it.....cables don;t matter, except to those of us who can actually hear a difference. Take you're argument to a thread that has relevance to your cause.

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul!
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  • jm1
    jm1 Posts: 618
    edited January 2009
    The signal path from my DAC to the Dynaudio monitors is using Nordost Frey cables. These cables have significantly eclipsed the performance of the previous Harmonic Technology cables in every aspect. The overall presentation is very neutral with outstanding air, depth, layering, macro dynamics and inner detail. I am now hearing low level details and sonic characteristics within the music I have not heard on mine or other systems.

    For those who are in the process of addressing system cabling, I highly recommend having a listen to the Nordost Norse series (Heimdall or Frey) cables within your system. Be warned that these cables will totally expose the sonic characteristics of your system components which may be good for the overall presentation or bad as there will be another issue to address.

    I also envy those who don’t (or won’t) hear a difference between cabling. They don’t need to spend the time finding and implementing a cable system well-matched with their system components.
    All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed, second it is violently opposed and third, it is accepted as self evident.
    Arthur Schopenhauer
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  • george daniel
    george daniel Posts: 12,096
    edited January 2009
    disneyjoe7 wrote: »
    I'm asking because I noticed a different sound with some Demo cables I got now. Thank you Uncle Ted ;)


    I mean why is MIT better? There are other companies who make nice cables like AudioQuest, who don't to anything with network circuits. So why is MIT cables better? Is it because the network is given you higher levels sounds? Doesn't this color the sound?

    Because Jesse and Ted said so,;), something(s) inside that box,, for my system,I noticed a more laid back sound, which is good because I thought that it was somewhat bright before.
    JC approves....he told me so. (F-1 nut)
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  • inspiredsports
    inspiredsports Posts: 5,501
    edited January 2009
    deleted
    VTL ST50 w/mods / RCA6L6GC / TlfnknECC801S
    Conrad Johnson PV-5 w/mods
    TT Conrad Johnson Sonographe SG3 Oak / Sumiko LMT / Grado Woodbody Platinum / Sumiko PIB2 / The Clamp
    Musical Fidelity A1 CDPro/ Bada DD-22 Tube CDP / Conrad Johnson SD-22 CDP
    Tuners w/mods Kenwood KT5020 / Fisher KM60
    MF x-DAC V8, HAInfo NG27
    Herbies Ti-9 / Vibrapods / MIT Shotgun AC1 IEC's / MIT Shotgun 2 IC's / MIT Shotgun 2 Speaker Cables
    PS Audio Cryo / PowerPort Premium Outlets / Exact Power EP15A Conditioner
    Walnut SDA 2B TL /Oak SDA SRS II TL (Sonicaps/Mills/Cardas/Custom SDA ICs / Dynamat Extreme / Larry's Rings/ FSB-2 Spikes
    NAD SS rigs w/mods
    GIK panels
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  • Lovegasoline
    Lovegasoline Posts: 20
    edited January 2009
    Here is a very useful and informative page about speaker wire presented by famous audio engineer and inventor Roger Russell, Director of Acoustic Research at McIntosh Laboratory, Inc. and the originator of McIntosh Loudspeakers:

    http://www.roger-russell.com/wire/wire.htm

    He presents scientific research, listening tests, as well as the social and economic history of high end speaker wire.

    Included on the same page is a listening test devised by Gordon Gow, President of McIntosh Laboratory, where he demonstrated various speaker wires to dealers and customers.

    http://www.roger-russell.com/wire/wire.htm#gordongow

    Am I stirring the pot or drinking the soup? I'm not sure. But I am as curious of the whys and why nots as anyone else as I currently need to buy a pair of ICs.

    Disclosure: I have no affiliation with Mcintosh and have never owned their products.

    My 2 channel system:
    McCormack DNA 125
    Adcom GFP 565 Preamp
    Meridian 508.20 CDP
    Polk LSi9
    Music Hall MMF5 TT
    Kimber Kable Hero IC
    Home Depot Speaker Wire
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  • Face
    Face Posts: 14,340
    edited January 2009
    Again, more "tests" from 60 year old men.

    Btw, have you ever heard any McIntosh products from when either of those two were still working at McIntosh?
    "He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." Friedrich Nietzsche
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  • polkatese
    polkatese Posts: 6,767
    edited January 2009
    To borrow the word from Obewan Kenobi: Trust You Ears, Luke...


    :)
    I am sorry, I have no opinion on the matter. I am sure you do. So, don't mind me, I just want to talk audio and pie.
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  • inspiredsports
    inspiredsports Posts: 5,501
    edited January 2009
    I was skeptical at first also, and was directed to the Gow articles. I probably posted a link to them here at CP myself.

    I've been involved in many heart to heart discussions here and at AK, and several listening test at friends houses that led me to upgrade my interconnects and cables in a big way.

    I've studied the photos of the "master" and "slave" boxes Gow used. Wouldn't the switches, terminal blocks, light bulbs and whatever else is inside affect the signal in ways beyond those of a simple amplifier to speaker connection?
    VTL ST50 w/mods / RCA6L6GC / TlfnknECC801S
    Conrad Johnson PV-5 w/mods
    TT Conrad Johnson Sonographe SG3 Oak / Sumiko LMT / Grado Woodbody Platinum / Sumiko PIB2 / The Clamp
    Musical Fidelity A1 CDPro/ Bada DD-22 Tube CDP / Conrad Johnson SD-22 CDP
    Tuners w/mods Kenwood KT5020 / Fisher KM60
    MF x-DAC V8, HAInfo NG27
    Herbies Ti-9 / Vibrapods / MIT Shotgun AC1 IEC's / MIT Shotgun 2 IC's / MIT Shotgun 2 Speaker Cables
    PS Audio Cryo / PowerPort Premium Outlets / Exact Power EP15A Conditioner
    Walnut SDA 2B TL /Oak SDA SRS II TL (Sonicaps/Mills/Cardas/Custom SDA ICs / Dynamat Extreme / Larry's Rings/ FSB-2 Spikes
    NAD SS rigs w/mods
    GIK panels
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  • inspiredsports
    inspiredsports Posts: 5,501
    edited January 2009
    Keiko wrote: »
    Uh oh! Am I gunna have to upgrade my speaker cables now to? :D;)

    I don't want to get you in trouble with the missus, but I would drop the 8' AVt-2 Speaker Interfaces to 2 if everything is in the same box when I ship tomorrow. You would have a perfectly matched set then if you ever want to resell. :)

    Greg
    VTL ST50 w/mods / RCA6L6GC / TlfnknECC801S
    Conrad Johnson PV-5 w/mods
    TT Conrad Johnson Sonographe SG3 Oak / Sumiko LMT / Grado Woodbody Platinum / Sumiko PIB2 / The Clamp
    Musical Fidelity A1 CDPro/ Bada DD-22 Tube CDP / Conrad Johnson SD-22 CDP
    Tuners w/mods Kenwood KT5020 / Fisher KM60
    MF x-DAC V8, HAInfo NG27
    Herbies Ti-9 / Vibrapods / MIT Shotgun AC1 IEC's / MIT Shotgun 2 IC's / MIT Shotgun 2 Speaker Cables
    PS Audio Cryo / PowerPort Premium Outlets / Exact Power EP15A Conditioner
    Walnut SDA 2B TL /Oak SDA SRS II TL (Sonicaps/Mills/Cardas/Custom SDA ICs / Dynamat Extreme / Larry's Rings/ FSB-2 Spikes
    NAD SS rigs w/mods
    GIK panels
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  • polkatese
    polkatese Posts: 6,767
    edited January 2009
    How about a payment plan with no interest?

    ok.ok. I shut up...
    I am sorry, I have no opinion on the matter. I am sure you do. So, don't mind me, I just want to talk audio and pie.
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  • twanto
    twanto Posts: 18
    edited January 2009
    polkatese wrote: »
    yes, you WILL see the benefit of upgrading.

    I guess it's a matter of drawing the line on the sands of the "upgrading" sickness. For the right price, given the choice, if you have budget for signalcable level price but can get MIT for about the same price (even if it's +$100 and you have the extra coins), then go for the MIT.

    Isn't copper still copper?
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