LSI owners your speakers suck!

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  • Face
    Face Posts: 14,340
    edited February 2010
    Polk has them manufactured to their specs.

    Why be cheap?
    "He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." Friedrich Nietzsche
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  • love2listen
    love2listen Posts: 172
    edited February 2010
    Ben or Face,
    Would either of you guys still be willing to do this mod for CP members? If so, how much would it be and what would it require? Tnx for the help! :)
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  • ben62670
    ben62670 Posts: 15,969
    edited February 2010
    I do these mods for Polkies. PM sent.
    Ben
    Please. Please contact me a ben62670 @ yahoo.com. Make sure to include who you are, and you are from Polk so I don't delete your email. Also I am now physically unable to work on any projects. If you need help let these guys know. There are many people who will help if you let them know where you are.
    Thanks
    Ben
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  • Krazyz1
    Krazyz1 Posts: 256
    edited February 2010
    Are the RTiA9's good to go on the XO or do they need a helping hand also?
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  • Face
    Face Posts: 14,340
    edited February 2010
    Almost any commercial speaker's crossover components can be improved.
    "He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." Friedrich Nietzsche
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  • McLoki
    McLoki Posts: 5,231
    edited February 2010
    Krazyz1 wrote: »
    Are the RTiA9's good to go on the XO or do they need a helping hand also?

    Almost all Polk speakers use the same level of components in the crossover. That means they will all benefit to some level from upgrading them - the only question is how expensive a component do you put in there to replace the existing caps???

    Long story short - yes, your RTiA9's would benefit from the upgrade and it would be well worth doing.

    Michael
    Mains.............Polk LSi15 (Cherry)
    Center............Polk LSiC (Crossover upgraded)
    Surrounds.......Polk LSi7 (Gloss Black - wood sides removed and crossovers upgraded)
    Subwoofers.....SVS 25-31 CS+ and PC+ (both 20hz tune)
    Pre\Pro...........NAD T163 (Modded with LM4562 opamps)
    Amplifier.........Cinepro 3k6 (6-channel, 500wpc@4ohms)
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  • Rev. Hayes
    Rev. Hayes Posts: 475
    edited February 2010
    Face, could I trouble you for a parts list. My lsi9's took a hard hit during shipping and the crossover pcb was broken in the right. :( Right now I am simply "jumping" the broken traces so I would love to do this upgrade as a full point to point project (that is what you have there, no?)
    Sounds good to me...
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  • Face
    Face Posts: 14,340
    edited February 2010
    Rev, here's a link to the LSi9 crossover schematic: http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=18677&d=1155780535

    The LSi9's I upgraded were not all point to point, but the LSi15's were.
    "He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." Friedrich Nietzsche
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  • gp4jesus
    gp4jesus Posts: 1,988
    edited April 2010
    to Ben62670: "...I can't get the exact numbers off the PDF."
    How can I get a PDF for RTi A7s?

    thnx tony
    Samsung 60" UN60ES6100 LED, Outlaw Audio 976 Pre/Pro Samsung BDP, Amazon Firestick, Phillips CD Changer Canare 14 ga - LCR tweeters inside*; Ctr Ch outside BJC 10 ga: LCR mids “Foamed & Plugged**”, inside* & out
    8 ga Powerline: LR woofers, inside* & out
    *soldered **Rob the Man (Xschop) LR: Tri-amped RTi A7 w/Rotels. Woofers - 980BX; Tweets & Mids - 981, connected w/Monoprice Premiere ICs
    Ctr Ch: Rotel RB981 -> Bi-amped CSi A6 Surrounds: Premiere ICs ->Rotel 981 -> AR 12 ga -> RTi A3. 5 Subs: Sunfire True SW Signature -> LFE & Ctr Ch; 4 Audio Pro Evidence @ the “Corners”. Power Conditioning & Distribution: 4 dedicated 20A feeds; APC H15; 5 Furman Miniport 20s
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  • Face
    Face Posts: 14,340
    edited April 2010
    gp4jesus wrote: »
    to Ben62670: "...I can't get the exact numbers off the PDF."
    How can I get a PDF for RTi A7s?

    thnx tony
    Polk won't release that info.
    "He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." Friedrich Nietzsche
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  • jjwm27
    jjwm27 Posts: 123
    edited April 2010
    Ben was right, my Lsi9s did suck, i just did the sonicap mills upgrade and they havnt even broke in yet and i cant get over how much better they sound, not just a little but a LOT, this is a must do upgrade. thanks to all of you that posted pics, it made it easy. well back to my chair.
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  • maximillian
    maximillian Posts: 2,144
    edited April 2010
    Thanks jjwm for sharing. Can you tell me what you find better? I want to make sure the $200-$300 price tag is worth it. How would you compare these speakers to other brands? Recently in this thread people have compared the LSi bookshelf speakers to Totem's and said that the Totems are better.

    http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?t=99536
    http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?t=99628

    Would this upgrade bring them closer in sound quality to the Totems? Other brands?
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  • gwh
    gwh Posts: 1,451
    edited April 2010
    My LSIC does suck, at times, in my opinion. Will I need to do the upgrades on the left & right channels also to blend the front stage properly?




    G
    HT:
    Martin Logan Motion 40
    Martin Logan Motion 50XT
    Emotiva Airmotiv E2
    SVS SB16 Ultra
    Def Tech Reference Sub
    Yamaha RX-A3070

    Signal Cable speaker wires & interconnects.
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  • jjwm27
    jjwm27 Posts: 123
    edited April 2010
    i have never heard the totems so i cant say, i cant imagine them sounding better than my upgraded Lsi9s. it sounds like i took the muffler of the tweeters and the bass is much tighter. i have mostly polk speakers, monitor 12s that are also modded and sound great, a pair of sda crs unmodded, and a pair of Lsi7s, the lsi9s are by far my favorite now. the cost of the upgrade was $196.05 including shipping from sonicraft. i would like to hear the totems to compare but i doubt i ever will because i am very happy with the 9s and cant see paying $700 for something that may or may not sound better. if you have the 9s i say go for it.
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  • mantis
    mantis Posts: 17,200
    edited April 2010
    jjwm27 wrote: »
    i have never heard the totems so i cant say, i cant imagine them sounding better than my upgraded Lsi9s. it sounds like i took the muffler of the tweeters and the bass is much tighter. i have mostly polk speakers, monitor 12s that are also modded and sound great, a pair of sda crs unmodded, and a pair of Lsi7s, the lsi9s are by far my favorite now. the cost of the upgrade was $196.05 including shipping from sonicraft. i would like to hear the totems to compare but i doubt i ever will because i am very happy with the 9s and cant see paying $700 for something that may or may not sound better. if you have the 9s i say go for it.

    Send them to me and I'll conduct the shootout. I'd love to hear the Modded 9's as the factory 9's didn't do so well. I didn't like anything about them really. They fell on their face and never got back up.

    The Rainmakers are going to be extremely hard to beat but if they do or even just come close I will have a new respect of the Lsi series with this upgrade. I'm so wanting to hear.
    Dan
    My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time.
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  • maximillian
    maximillian Posts: 2,144
    edited April 2010
    So if I want to save money, what are my options....
    1) use the Dayton 18uF caps from Parts Express instead of Sonic caps. Do you think the SQ will be considerably different?

    2) Do not do the 260uF caps. I use a HSU sub for music and it sounds pretty good.

    3) Do not do the resistor changes. These don't cost that much so it may be worth it to just do it.

    So it looks like a minimum cost is (from DK's post #98):
    Mills 3 ohm 12 watt (MRA-12) 2 @ $3.50 $7.00
    Mills 1 ohm 12 watt (MRA-12) 2 @ $3.50 $7.00

    Sonicap 1 uF 200v 2 @ $5.80 $11.60 (this is C1, correct?)
    Dayton 18 uF 200v 4 @ $5.65 $22.60
    Sonicap 12 uF 200v 2 @ $19.60 $39.20

    Total: $87.40 + SH

    That's pretty inexpensive. Will this result in a noticeable improvement? Any other recommendations?
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  • Face
    Face Posts: 14,340
    edited April 2010
    I wouldn't skimp on the 18uf. As for the 260uf, you could bypass it with a small value Dayton film cap.
    "He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." Friedrich Nietzsche
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  • maximillian
    maximillian Posts: 2,144
    edited April 2010
    Edited...

    I just read posts 107-111. Dayton could maybe be used for the bass 18uF caps, but Sonicaps preferred on the high side. So it looks like the minimum is pretty much what mmadden28 described in #71 but you can save a few dollars if you order custom 18uF Sonicaps. Also see post #98 summary.
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  • jjwm27
    jjwm27 Posts: 123
    edited April 2010
    mantis wrote: »
    Send them to me and I'll conduct the shootout. I'd love to hear the Modded 9's as the factory 9's didn't do so well. I didn't like anything about them really. They fell on their face and never got back up.

    The Rainmakers are going to be extremely hard to beat but if they do or even just come close I will have a new respect of the Lsi series with this upgrade. I'm so wanting to hear.
    now your making me want to get the Rainmakers so i will know for sure, damn club polk is hard on the wallet.
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  • mmadden28
    mmadden28 Posts: 4,283
    edited April 2010
    mantis wrote: »
    Send them to me and I'll conduct the shootout. I'd love to hear the Modded 9's as the factory 9's didn't do so well. I didn't like anything about them really. They fell on their face and never got back up.

    The Rainmakers are going to be extremely hard to beat but if they do or even just come close I will have a new respect of the Lsi series with this upgrade. I'm so wanting to hear.

    Hey Dan, if I ever get around to actually finishing my LSi9 mod (adding the low end cap replacements), I'll get my set up to you to try for awhile. I've had my ears abducted by my SDAs for some time now and haven't given my 9's much of a workout. And your fairly close (actually probably within a mile or two from where I used to live) so I won't have to worry about shipping them.

    So I'll get started on that in the next week or two and give them a bit of a burn-in, although they may still need some more burning in when you get them (I just can't bring myself to leave my stereo on for 500+ hours :o)

    I have several sets of 9's so if you wanted to side by side the stock vs. modded as well, I can bring both sets.
    ____________________
    This post is a natural product. The slight variations in spelling and grammar enhance its individual character and beauty and in no way are to be considered flaws or defects.

    HT:Onkyo 805, Emotiva XPA-5, Mitsu 52" 1080p DLP / polkaudio RTi12, CSIa6, FXi3, uPro4K
    2-chnl : Pio DV-46AV (SACD), Dodd ELP, Emotiva XPA-1s, XPA-2, Odyssey Khartago, LSi9, SDA-SRS 2 :cool:, SB Duet, MSB & Monarchy DACs, Yamaha PX3 TT, SAE Tuner...
    Pool: Atrium 60's/45's
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  • mmadden28
    mmadden28 Posts: 4,283
    edited April 2010
    jjwm27 wrote: »
    .... damn club polk is hard on the wallet.

    AIN'T IT THE TRUTH!!!! :rolleyes:;):cool:

    (should there be an apostrophe in ain't???)
    ____________________
    This post is a natural product. The slight variations in spelling and grammar enhance its individual character and beauty and in no way are to be considered flaws or defects.

    HT:Onkyo 805, Emotiva XPA-5, Mitsu 52" 1080p DLP / polkaudio RTi12, CSIa6, FXi3, uPro4K
    2-chnl : Pio DV-46AV (SACD), Dodd ELP, Emotiva XPA-1s, XPA-2, Odyssey Khartago, LSi9, SDA-SRS 2 :cool:, SB Duet, MSB & Monarchy DACs, Yamaha PX3 TT, SAE Tuner...
    Pool: Atrium 60's/45's
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  • McLoki
    McLoki Posts: 5,231
    edited April 2010
    gwh wrote: »
    My LSIC does suck, at times, in my opinion. Will I need to do the upgrades on the left & right channels also to blend the front stage properly?
    G

    No, you will be fine. After hearing the sound quality upgrade though - you will want to upgrade your fronts.

    They still sound like LSi's, just better. (same tone, just more bass, clarity, SQ, etc.)
    Mains.............Polk LSi15 (Cherry)
    Center............Polk LSiC (Crossover upgraded)
    Surrounds.......Polk LSi7 (Gloss Black - wood sides removed and crossovers upgraded)
    Subwoofers.....SVS 25-31 CS+ and PC+ (both 20hz tune)
    Pre\Pro...........NAD T163 (Modded with LM4562 opamps)
    Amplifier.........Cinepro 3k6 (6-channel, 500wpc@4ohms)
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  • McLoki
    McLoki Posts: 5,231
    edited April 2010
    maximillian wrote: »
    So if I want to save money, what are my options....
    1) use the Dayton 18uF caps from Parts Express instead of Sonic caps. Do you think the SQ will be considerably different?

    2) Do not do the 260uF caps. I use a HSU sub for music and it sounds pretty good.

    3) Do not do the resistor changes. These don't cost that much so it may be worth it to just do it.

    So it looks like a minimum cost is (from DK's post #98):
    Mills 3 ohm 12 watt (MRA-12) 2 @ $3.50 $7.00
    Mills 1 ohm 12 watt (MRA-12) 2 @ $3.50 $7.00

    Sonicap 1 uF 200v 2 @ $5.80 $11.60 (this is C1, correct?)
    Dayton 18 uF 200v 4 @ $5.65 $22.60
    Sonicap 12 uF 200v 2 @ $19.60 $39.20

    Total: $87.40 + SH

    That's pretty inexpensive. Will this result in a noticeable improvement? Any other recommendations?

    1) Considerable is in the ear of the beholder, but I am sure either will be considerably better than stock....

    2) there is such a bass improvement, I really think skipping the 260uf would be a mistake. Get a couple of 130uf's and replace them. (I think this is important enough that if money was an overall concern - I would drop the sonicap caps down to Daytons in the tweeter before I left the stock 260uf cap in the crossover)

    3) I am really not sure how much of an improvement the resistors give you, but they are such a cheap part that you would be foolish to not replace them while you are in there. (the resistor in the tweeter circuit is a weak point in the LSi's anyway, so you should replace that with a 12watter anyway)

    Michael
    Mains.............Polk LSi15 (Cherry)
    Center............Polk LSiC (Crossover upgraded)
    Surrounds.......Polk LSi7 (Gloss Black - wood sides removed and crossovers upgraded)
    Subwoofers.....SVS 25-31 CS+ and PC+ (both 20hz tune)
    Pre\Pro...........NAD T163 (Modded with LM4562 opamps)
    Amplifier.........Cinepro 3k6 (6-channel, 500wpc@4ohms)
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  • gwh
    gwh Posts: 1,451
    edited April 2010
    No, you will be fine. After hearing the sound quality upgrade though - you will want to upgrade your fronts.

    They still sound like LSi's, just better. (same tone, just more bass, clarity, SQ, etc.)


    I might just give it a try then.
    Thanks,




    G
    HT:
    Martin Logan Motion 40
    Martin Logan Motion 50XT
    Emotiva Airmotiv E2
    SVS SB16 Ultra
    Def Tech Reference Sub
    Yamaha RX-A3070

    Signal Cable speaker wires & interconnects.
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  • bklynNupe
    bklynNupe Posts: 728
    edited April 2010
    Can anyone recommend someone in the NYC metro area to do this mod? I just got my 9’s earlier this week and would like to get this before I hook them up.

    emotiva xpa-2
    emotiva xpa-3
    Denon 3312ci
    Rtia9 /csia6 / FXi A6
    Samsung LN46A650
    SVS PB-12-NSD sub

    Audio Research SP-9 MKIII (GNSC mods)
    W4S ST250
    Lsi 9 (mods)
    W4S DAC-2
    Mac Mini
    Audio Aero Prima CD player
    Pro-Ject debut
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  • zingo
    zingo Posts: 11,258
    edited April 2010
    I know Ben used to do them for members if you mail them to him and foot the bill. Send him a PM and he may be up to it.
    Jake
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  • McLoki
    McLoki Posts: 5,231
    edited April 2010
    zingo wrote: »
    I know Ben used to do them for members if you mail them to him and foot the bill. Send him a PM and he may be up to it.

    You can just mail him the crossovers, you do not have to send the entire speaker. (just so you know)
    Mains.............Polk LSi15 (Cherry)
    Center............Polk LSiC (Crossover upgraded)
    Surrounds.......Polk LSi7 (Gloss Black - wood sides removed and crossovers upgraded)
    Subwoofers.....SVS 25-31 CS+ and PC+ (both 20hz tune)
    Pre\Pro...........NAD T163 (Modded with LM4562 opamps)
    Amplifier.........Cinepro 3k6 (6-channel, 500wpc@4ohms)
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  • dtowntke
    dtowntke Posts: 21
    edited April 2010
    hi, i am new to the forum and i just purchased a pair of lsi 15's. i am a person always looking for better sound. i never moded speakers before so i would like some one to do this for me if all possible?
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  • zingo
    zingo Posts: 11,258
    edited April 2010
    McLoki wrote: »
    You can just mail him the crossovers, you do not have to send the entire speaker. (just so you know)

    That's probably an important piece that could be misinterpreted... :p
    Jake
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  • dtowntke
    dtowntke Posts: 21
    edited April 2010
    Ben hi names jason i am to new to pm so if you could contact me about changing my crossover that would be great, if your still doing it
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