LSI owners your speakers suck!

mmadden28

Holy mackeral-felt like forever waiting for these parts to arrive from Sonicraft-they finally arrived today-Now to start modding .......

mmadden28

Ben how can you not be online? Its only 1am

ben62670

Well I tried to sleep. Take pics!

mmadden28

ben62670 wrote: »

Well I tried to sleep. Take pics!

I will-didn't get started yet-hopefully tomorrow.
so much to do, so much to listen to, so little time. I can't stay awake.

ben62670

mmadden28 wrote: »

.....I can't stay awake.

That is so much better than I can't sleep!
GN MM
Don't let the upgradis bug bite:D

Early B.

mmadden28 wrote: »

Holy mackeral-felt like forever waiting for these parts to arrive from Sonicraft-they finally arrived today-Now to start modding .......

Yeah, Soniccraft's distributuion center in Arkansas got hit hard by Gustav, so it took them a few days to regroup.

mmadden28

Early B. wrote: »

Yeah, Soniccraft's distributuion center in Arkansas got hit hard by Gustav, so it took them a few days to regroup.

Picked up on 9/2 delivered on 9/8---6 days-its likely normal for UPS Ground-it just felt like forever-like waiting for christmas or suimmer vacation or a pot of water to boil, or,.....;). Maybe my package just squeeked out in time?


WEST CHESTER, PA, US 09/08/2008 1:27 P.M. DELIVERY
09/08/2008 4:26 A.M. OUT FOR DELIVERY
WEST CHESTER, PA, US 09/05/2008 8:51 A.M. ARRIVAL SCAN
NEW STANTON, PA, US 09/05/2008 4:11 A.M. DEPARTURE SCAN
NEW STANTON, PA, US 09/04/2008 7:19 P.M. ARRIVAL SCAN
COLUMBUS, OH, US 09/04/2008 2:46 P.M. DEPARTURE SCAN
09/04/2008 2:32 P.M. ARRIVAL SCAN
LEXINGTON, KY, US 09/04/2008 10:51 A.M. DEPARTURE SCAN
09/04/2008 6:18 A.M. ARRIVAL SCAN
KNOXVILLE, TN, US 09/04/2008 3:13 A.M. DEPARTURE SCAN
KNOXVILLE, TN, US 09/03/2008 10:17 P.M. ARRIVAL SCAN
LITTLE ROCK, AR, US 09/03/2008 3:18 P.M. DEPARTURE SCAN
LITTLE ROCK, AR, US 09/02/2008 9:58 P.M. ARRIVAL SCAN
HOT SPRINGS, AR, US 09/02/2008 8:35 P.M. DEPARTURE SCAN
09/02/2008 7:11 P.M. ORIGIN SCAN

mmadden28

ben62670 wrote: »

That is so much better than I can't sleep!
GN MM
Don't let the upgradis bug bite:D

I......Neeeddd....toooooo.....taaassste.......solder......
Ouch--:eek: something bit me.

Hey who took my debit and CCards out of my wallet??

jimiles

Ben, that's awesome work. :cool: The press raved so much about those speakers that I wondered how much room there was for improvement. Plenty of room, of course! The only place we have to listen to them around here is Frys Electronics, which is not exactly an audiophile haven!

ben62670

jimiles wrote: »

Ben, that's awesome work. :cool: The press raved so much about those speakers that I wondered how much room there was for improvement. Plenty of room, of course! The only place we have to listen to them around here is Frys Electronics, which is not exactly an audiophile haven!

Thanks. When my buddy blew his up I was just going to fix them for him. I noticed they used the same type of cap as the vintage speakers. All I have to say is it is as close to an active XO I have heard yet.


Edit: BTW Teflon Silver plated hookup wire on the extensions;)

nikolas812

mmadden28 wrote: »

I will-didn't get started yet-hopefully tomorrow.
so much to do, so much to listen to, so little time. I can't stay awake.

Well... Hows it going?



Nick

mmadden28

nikolas812 wrote: »

Well... Hows it going?

Nick

Its funny you should ask, I am just about to update with my progress...I finally finished the right channel-its burning in now as we speak. I'm going to post some of the progress pics.

I saw your updated post indicating that you were going to attempt it. Its really not that difficult. As Ben said the toughest part is getting through some of the glue.
The toughest part I encountered was simply trying to figure out where to put the new caps.
I did all but the 260uF and I didn't have to put any off the XO (in the bottom of the speaker cabinet. It would be even better if I went with the 18uF in a single cap instead of two but I still made it work.

I really can't comment yet on SQ as I don't have the ability to listen in mono. I have to rip some CDs in mono or something. I only did one channel so I can do some comparitive listening. I'll do the other later.

I'll get those pics up tonight or early tomorrow. The wife is calling me to watch a movie

---

be back later....

mmadden28

OK finally got around to it and also finally got around to posting some pics.

Pretty much followed Ben's example (although with a different XO), as well as DarqueKnights mod.

I only did the right channel so far-I want to do some listening comparisons before I do them both.
I also decided that I was not doing the 260uF at this time. Although I may still later. Besides that'll give me a chance to see if I hear a difference there as well.

I ordered the 10uF and the 8.2uF to replace the high side 18uF. Unfortunately I did not know you could order custom vlaues from Soniccraft, and my order shipped before I could change it-So I had to deal with two caps instead of one for that replacement.

First I took the drivers and tweeter out and disconnected them to ease working with the XO on my workbench.


Then I removed the circuit board from the binding post frame. I disconnected the low side wires from the binding posts and desoldered the hi side wires from the board-so I could have more wiggle room while I tried to figure out Cap placement. I may not disconnect those wires when I do the Left channel-twas a bit of a pain, esp getting back on.

Next I did the resistors:
As DK mentioned in post #82 and did in his own, I left the existing resistors in place. The Glue Polk uses is some serious stuff.
What I did differently (although also suggested by DK) was I added a bead of Heat Sink compound between the odl and new resistors. I used some Artic Silver 5, the same highly rated stuff used for CPU Heatsinks. While air and the 12W Mills would be enough, I figured why not-the old one is there anyway and I had some compound leftover from my PC build.




Here is a better shot with the heat sink compound



I put some tape over the resistors for the rest of the mod to prevent any smearing of the compound (its sticky messy stuff) but I removed the tape when I was done the mod. Warning: Don't use heat sink compound remover on the Mills!! It takes the outer layer off. You may notice some of the label missing on later shots on the 1ohm.

I had a bit of trouble trying to figure out exactly how to best do the layout.
I ended with all the caps on the XO board and none offboard, although when I do the 260uF, the two 130uFs will be offboard.

I started with the 1uF. I removed the old and as much of the glue as I could. There is a lot of real estate where that 1uF is. I considered putting one of the other biggies there, but no matter which config I tried, it was just too big to fit and still allow the XO to screw back on to the mount. If I could have only moved that 260uF over just 1/8" thinkgs would be different. If I were to offmount a replcement 260uF I would have also had enough room. Oh well, maybe next time. The damn glue is plentiful. Maybe next time I'll try a hot glue knife. :rolleyes:

IIRC, this was the one (1uF) that I had to temporarily remove one of the inductors to be able to desolder it.

Then I removed the old high side 12uF and 18uF. Again, that glue is a beast.
Here is a shot before removal:

.
.


Because the 12 and 18 both shared a trace no one side and because of the large cap needing real estate, I decided to move the 10/8.2uF caps to the other side. I put the 12uF there alone, but I used the shared lead hole of the original 18uF cap.

Note the Arrows:


.
.
Here is the other side. This lead is in the appropriate 12uF location.


.
.

OK this side is finished (except for the removal of the old lowside 18uF):
Note the dangling high and low side signal input wires


to be cont'.

mmadden28

OK now the other side:
I soldered the leads of the 10 and 8.2uF together. I did this in such a way to allow use of as much of thier own leads as possible to make the connection with the circuit board. I figure that would add some strength and not require dangling on a wire. Although I'm not sure if its necessary, where possible I covered long exposed leads with some heat shrink tubing.

Note my temp tape covering the resistors
One side:

.
.

And the other:

.
.

Then I did the low side Dayton 18uF. I had to use an extension lead on one side to make it reach from where I have it positioned.

.
.

and (note the missing label from the Mills)
Look close enough and you can see the black wire just behind the blue heat shrunk lead-that's the extension lead.


I hot glued the 10 and 8.2uF set together with the Dayton 18uF. I think if I had the 18uF Sonicap, and had the room on the other side for it, I would only have the Dayton and the 1uF on this side.
Shot with the Hot Glue:

.
.

I added some more hot glue and added some electrical tape just to provide a little extra support to each other.

.
.


IIRC the completed XO assy, weighed about 16.6 oz. I'll weigh the other channel before I start the mod to figure the difference.
Here's a side shot of the comleted mod. Look at all those juicy caps :cool:

.
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An a shot installed through the front driver hole. Note there is plenty of clearance here. No worries about the extra caps hitting the driver.
The rst of this space is filled with fiber fill.


I'm not setup yet to provide any SQ opinions, but I have the caps burning in for now. As soon as I figure out an easy way for me to switch between the two with the same cahnnel source, so that I can do some comparison. I have like a 1/2 millisecond of hearing memory so my comparisons have to be at the flip of a switch--Perhaps a speaker switch?? Or maybe a DPDT toggle?

Oh by the way I used RS silver bearing solder and some silver plated hookup wire (Thanks Ben!). When I do the 260uF, I'll use the Silver plated hookup wire there as well.

Its funny--because I had so little time at home-I brought the XO into work to work on it. You should have seen the faces of those that saw this thing. With all the wires and caps and inductors, and me soldering in this small compact thing....you'd think that they thought I was building some kind of detonation device.:eek::eek: . They see Sonicaps and they're thinking blasting caps...I never did tell them what it really was. :D

nikolas812

Looking good!!


Can't wait to hear your thoughts regarding the SQ between the two....




Nikolas

mmadden28

Early B. wrote: »

Hey Ben -- how about an A/B test at the next Polkfest?

What is the best way to do an A/B comparison?

mmadden28

mmadden28 wrote: »

...

Note the Arrows:

Oops I just noted an error--In the text in the arrows in the pic above (from post #137) I erroneously stated that the hole was the ground side hole. It is in fact not ground, but simply a common connection point with the 12uf (and actually one of the inductors as well).
It doesn't change anything in the way I modified it, I'm just correcting an error in what I stated.


Heres a shot of the high side scematic.


Now Let me see if I can somehow edit the original pic....

mmadden28

mmadden28 wrote: »

Now Let me see if I can somehow edit the original pic....

All fixed--:cool:

Face

Disregard.

Nice work. I should be doing the same thing shortly.

McLoki

MMadden - ok, its been days - how does it sound???

Ben - How was the LSiC upgrade? Did you get good benefits from it as well? Have time for a quick review? (not that it really matters, my parts are already ordered )

Michael

ben62670

I think DK has a review somewhere;)
I totally agree with his results even using the Dayton's:)

McLoki

The DK review was for a pair of LSi9's being used as a center (although the review was based on music reproduction) - not a single LSiC.

Either way - I take it you had similar results with your upgrade of the LSiC? (even without doing the 260uf cap)

nikolas812

McLoki wrote: »

MMadden - ok, its been days - how does it sound???


Michael

+1


So... Hows it sound??






Nick

mmadden28

Had a bit of a cold or something the past few days-kinda stuffy and my right ear is a bit clogged up so I haven't rushed in to do any serious listening-I have been trying to keep the tunes pumping though, to burn the caps in, at least while at work since she won't 'have it' while she is home. That and when I actually am at home-the wife and kids have me doing other stuff.

I considered splitting one of the channels with a Y-slpitter, but I was concerned about putting a cheap cable int he mix--Then I realized that the Dodd ELP has two sets of outputs, I simply ran from the same preout channel to the left and right channel of the amp. I really haven't figured out how to do a one on one comparison as you would do with a balance (since I don't have one). I really need a speaker switch or something. Any recomendations? Or best way to output a mono signal or combine the existing Left and Right?

When I did do some quick stereo listening, I noticed the sounds stage shifted a bit to the left (new caps on the right channel), but then that could be related to my clogged ear. I am pretty sure I hear more clarity from the upgraded speaker, but again hard to tell with the other channel still on.

Its just my boys and me at home this weekend, the wife is down the shore (craft show :rolleyes:) , so hopefully I'll get the chance to zone out with it :cool:.

mmadden28

ben62670 wrote: »

I think DK has a review somewhere;)
I totally agree with his results even using the Dayton's:)

http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?t=72273

Face

I know they're not pretty, but they work.

ben62670

They are to pretty:)
Well I forgot who recommended using a heat gun to remove the glued in parts, but it worked great! I still trimmed the leads off the components to be removed to be safe. Then all you have to do is get the tiny piece of lead tickled out of the hole.
Ben

Face

Just use your hands, wimp.

ben62670

I did and almost lost a trace!

Conradicles

The Vifa tweeter in the LSi's, can you buy one similar at Parts Express? Which part #?