SL2000 response charts in sda compendium show no spikes

spaceman

Just having gotten a pair of sda-2s I can affirm that they are bright and fatiguing. My intention is to replace them asap. I can't live with them. Anyone wants them please do holler.

michaeljhsda2

If the tweeter was so bad why did alot of people buy Polk speakers with the SL 2000 tweeter 20+ years ago? Guess their ears hadn't turned to gold yet.

F1nut

michaeljhsda2 wrote: »

If the tweeter was so bad why did alot of people buy Polk speakers with the SL 2000 tweeter 20+ years ago? Guess their ears hadn't turned to gold yet.

Because they are SDA's.......duh!

spaceman

The rest of the speaker is superb still. Just those damn gummy tweets are too much is all. I had similar tweets on some old ads speakers and loved them for low level but turn it up and ouchie.

michaeljhsda2

People are criticizing these tweeters, yet they bought them knowing the tweeters are inferior? That's stupid. Or maybe they only discovered they were crappy tweeters after reading about it in magazine reviews and in this forum.

mudslinger

I listened to them for + - 20 yrs.
They are not crappy, just a little harsh on some material. The RDOs are sweeter, so if one is into the music, why not. Hell its only a c note.
I've spent that much over the wood more times than I care to remember

spaceman

No not crappy lol. Never said that. I just prefer a tad less strident sound. The RDO is available where? Polk?

F1nut

michaeljhsda2 wrote: »

People are criticizing these tweeters, yet they bought them knowing the tweeters are inferior? That's stupid. Or maybe they only discovered they were crappy tweeters after reading about it in magazine reviews and in this forum.

You don't know much about speakers, I take it. Every speaker has a fault somewhere, some less than others or in a different area. For example, Maggies don't do bass very well, yet people buy them all the time knowing that if they want solid bass they will have to run a sub. In the case of the SL2000 equipped Polk's, folks have run tubes and made careful cable selections in an effort to combat the inherent tweeter flaw in order to enjoy what the SDA brings to the table. Now that a much better tweeter is available, well it's a no brainer.

So, what speakers are you running?

michaeljhsda2

I'll bet every critic of the tweeter was hoping and praying when Polk came out with the replacement tweeter that it would be better than the SL 2000. Of course it took many hours of "break in" time to figure out that the RDO was vastly superior to the dreaded SL2000. Before you can enjoy those RDO tweeters first you gotta listen to them for at least 50 to 200 hours (opinions vary of course) But then Polk did it again. They came out with the SL 3000 and damned if it doesn't sound like ****. But wait, don't dispair, another RDO is coming soon. Repeat same procedure as with the SL 2000. No, I don't know who CL is.

michaeljhsda2

1.2 TL's

michaeljhsda2

Your take is wrong.

F1nut

No, my take is right on and you proved it by posting this,

I'll bet every critic of the tweeter was hoping and praying when Polk came out with the replacement tweeter that it would be better than the SL 2000. Of course it took many hours of "break in" time to figure out that the RDO was vastly superior to the dreaded SL2000. Before you can enjoy those RDO tweeters first you gotta listen to them for at least 50 to 200 hours (opinions vary of course) But then Polk did it again. They came out with the SL 3000 and damned if it doesn't sound like ****. But wait, don't dispair, another RDO is coming soon. Repeat same procedure as with the SL 2000.

madmax

I listened to the old tweets and thought they were fine. My ears turned to gold I guess. After hearing the replacements I couldn't stand the old ones so I replaced all 68 of them in all the different models I had. I still remember talking to Ken when I ordered them. "you want how many? I don't think we have that many..."
madmax

candyliquor35m

Maybe we can get raife to post the charts here so everyone can make up their own mind.

mudslinger

Charts are hard to listen to.

candyliquor35m

madmax wrote: »

I listened to the old tweets and thought they were fine. My ears turned to gold I guess. After hearing the replacements I couldn't stand the old ones so I replaced all 68 of them in all the different models I had. I still remember talking to Ken when I ordered them. "you want how many? I don't think we have that many..."
madmax

can I have 5 or 10 of your sl2000's. I can't pay you for them but I'll pay for shipping.

F1nut

candyliquor35m wrote:

Maybe we can get raife to post the charts here so everyone can make up their own mind.

candyliquor35m wrote:

It does seem odd that all of a sudden the charts are more important than what our ears tell us. It makes me wonder if charts are so important

Hello!

candyliquor35m

F1nut wrote: »

Hello!

That was before I saw the charts. I assumed you guys were telling the truth about the spike on the charts but if you look at raife's charts, there is no spike. My ears were telling me all along that there is no spike but I trusted and respected you guys not to spread false rumors.

Maybe you can debate this with raife.

F1nut

Like I said before, if you knew how to read a graph chart, you'd know that the spike is clearly shown in Raife's chart.

You've been owned so many times in the last couple of days, on more than one forum, that it's not even funny anymore. Have you no shame?

I'm done here.

DarqueKnight

candyliquor35m wrote: »

Maybe we can get raife to post the charts here so everyone can make up their own mind.

Carl,

I think that everyone posting here, including yourself, has already made up their own mind.

For future reference, the charts you reference were published on the forum in August of 2004 in this thread:

SDS-SRS Crossover Points

Specifically, the charts published in the Compendium 2nd Edition are the same ones published in posts 10, 11, 13, 19 and 20 of the above thread.

In post 13 of the above thread, I stated:

DarqueKnight wrote: »

I was surprised to find a peak in the response at 13 kHz. It is well known that SDAs from generation 1 through 4 had a tweeter resonance at 13 kHz. I always assumed that this was a solely due to the properties of the SL2000 tweeter. This simulation result implies that the rise in response at 13 kHz was a characteristic of the high frequency crossover circuit. The performance parameters of the SL2000 tweeter probably just enhanced the crossover circuit's emphasis at 13 kHz.

On page 41 paragraph 1 of the Compendium 2nd Edition, I stated:

"I had always thought that the SL2000 resonance was due solely to the tweeter. I did some circuit simulations in August of 2004 that showed that the 13,000 Hz prominence in the frequency response may have been due largely to the design of the crossover and subsequently aggravated by the SL2000 resonance."

In neither of my published statements quoted above do I mention a "spike" in the response, as if there was an upright dagger in the SL2000 response characteristic at 13,000 Hz.

It is not clear to me why you continue to obsess over SDA tweeters. Apparently, for your ears, the SL2000 is too harsh and the RD0194 is to dull, lifeless, laid back and boring. If SDA tweeters are causing you this much anguish and significant detraction from musical enjoyment, then perhaps you would be better served by another speaker series.

You might also want to have your hearing checked in order to rule out any anomalies in your auditory system. Due to your personal auditory response characteristics, your ears may be overly sensitive or overly desensitized at certain frequencies.

I have my hearing checked once a year to make sure everything is working properly. Since I am an active musician and avid music enthusiast who occasionally posts reviews of audio equipment, it is important that I have an understanding of how my ears perceive sound.

DarqueKnight

candyliquor35m wrote: »

That was before I saw the charts. I assumed you guys were telling the truth about the spike on the charts but if you look at raife's charts, there is no spike. My ears were telling me all along that there is no spike but I trusted and respected you guys not to spread false rumors.

Carl,

These types of things are difficult, and perhaps even impossible, to understand for someone, such as yourself, who has little to no technical knowledge of basic electronics and who has an inability to properly read response charts.

I did not refer to the SL2000 response anomaly at 13,000 Hz as a "spike", but as Heiny9 so eloquently pointed out, it would not be incorrect to refer to it as such. So, whether you call it a spike, mountain top, peak, prominence, tip top, hill top, or elevated response, the charts clearly show a response anomaly in the reqion of 13,000 Hz.

If, in the far reaches of your imagination, you feel that there was some grand conspiricy to unjustifiably tarnish the reputation of a tweeter you apparently hold in highest esteem, then you are entitled to your opinion. However, your recent requests for technical advice on the Audiokarma forum strongly suggest that you do not really enjoy the sound of the SL2000 as much as your posts here would lead one to believe. After all your talk of "inproving" the sound of the SL2000 with capacitors, you demonstrated on Audiokarma that you didn't even know the difference between series and parallel capacitance.

DarqueKnight

F1nut wrote: »

I'm done here.

Amen.

Ricardo

I won't even start.

heiney9

michaeljhsda2 wrote: »

People are criticizing these tweeters, yet they bought them knowing the tweeters are inferior? That's stupid. Or maybe they only discovered they were crappy tweeters after reading about it in magazine reviews and in this forum.

Do you own anything with sl2000's if so have you ever spent extensive listening time with the RD0 replacement? If not, you really shouldn't comment.

When the sl2000 was introduced and was brand new it sounded pretty good compared to other designs of the day. As with all things as time moves forward and technology not only becomes available but more cost effective there are better things introduced like the sl3000 tweeter and then the RD0's. It's a natural progression and when you compare the (3) the RD0 wins hands down.

Stop being a troll, do some research before you stick your foot in your mouth. :rolleyes:

H9

heiney9

candyliquor35m wrote: »

Maybe we can get raife to post the charts here so everyone can make up their own mind.

I make up my mind by listening not by charts and plots and specs. Those are helpful but if my ears likes something that measures poorly or visa versa, so what, I'm going to pick what I hear.

Read my sig.

H9

DarqueKnight

heiney9 wrote: »

Stop being a troll, do some research before you stick your foot in your mouth. :rolleyes:

I don't think he was trolling. I think he was (sarcastically) pointing out the fact that some people only became dissatisfied with the SL2000 after other people pointed out its deficiencies. His screen name seems to indicate that he owns SDA 2's.

mudslinger

Interestingly, I was quite happy with my stock 11ts.
I happened upon the site, and found there was a replacement/upgrade to the tweeter available.
At 100 bucks, and a probable resale value on the RDOs at 75 bucks, and a majority of recommendations, why not take the chance on a new complexion. A new turntable cartridge was needed also, so an AT400MLa (also recommended), was ordered also.

These two parts proved an incredible upgrade to my system, for basically peanuts.
I believe a good amount of SL2000 owners have found their way in the same manner, and not necessarily out of dissatisfaction.

appreciate the good advice

also, Polk customer service was excellent. For a 12 dollar upcharge i took express shipping. The call was made to the Polk offices Monday, who then said the RDOs would ship from Cali (im in NY). The speakers arrived Wednesday, A day earlier than the LP gear shipment (express) which was placed at the same time. Cheers to Polk.

candyliquor35m

DarqueKnight wrote: »

Carl,

I think that everyone posting here, including yourself, has already made up their own mind.

For future reference, the charts you reference were published on the forum in August of 2004 in this thread:

SDS-SRS Crossover Points

Raife,

Thanks for the charts. Someone on here has been asking for them for weeks now. They are everything I had hoped for and more.

We can finally put this debate to rest. There is and has never been a nasty spike at 13khz. As you say and all the reviews that have been written also confirm that there is a resonance at 13khz. A spike and resonance are completely two unrelated and different things.

"Resonance: 1. the state of being resonant. 2. a prolonged response or increase of sound in one body reacting to sound waves from another body that is vibrating."

To interpret the resonance at 13khz as a nasty spike would be completely false and completely misleading.

I will continue tweaking my polks as others are doing with x-over cap upgrades, internal wiring upgrades, binding post upgrades, etc. Just this week when I put on Celine Dion on my SRS's, she sounded a bit harsh and bright so I changed the single 1.0 uf cap on each of the 2 middle tweeters to 1 single .47 uf cap. It accomplished the reduction of the harshness and brightness but I lost too much of the soundstage for my taste. Eventually I might try a .68 uf cap on the 2 middle sl2000's.

Thanks for the charts and keep up the good reviews and such.

Maybe someday, Polk will let you publish charts for the rd0's.

jakelm

Ha.. The Peerless used in the Monitor series were perfect....:D

That should have been Polk's all around tweeter..and solved all the world's problems....:p

heiney9

DarqueKnight wrote: »

I don't think he was trolling. I think he was (sarcastically) pointing out the fact that some people only became dissatisfied with the SL2000 after other people pointed out its deficiencies. His screen name seems to indicate that he owns SDA 2's.

OK, I'll go with that. But three antagonistic replies seemed to be trolling. It's hard to convey and decipher things in written text, so I'll go with it being sarcasm.

I'll also add for his benefit that I waited over a year after I joined this forum to buy into the whole RD0 tweeter being so much better (actually back then it was called an sl2000T). I never thought back then a single tweeter could make such a positive difference in a speaker. Guess what, it did and I wasted a over a year with RTA 11's which I eventually sold w/o trying the RD0's. I might still have those today had I installed the RD0's. Now a forum member has them.

So I was very skeptical when I first joined and now after using them for quite sometime I can endorse their characteristics 100%.

H9