Buying a GM, what will happen.....

bigaudiofanatic

LOL okay good

merrylander

Bought my wife a 2000 Impala LS with everything. Borrowed it when my Probe was in the garage for a week checking the A/C. Bought myself another 2000 Impala LS loaded. No problems, great gas mileage and the comfort of a full size car. The police around here are buying them - if you see an Impala with small blue and red lights on the rear shelf don't do anything stupid because you won't outrun him.

My wife taught for a number of years in Japan, if I came home with a rice burner she would set fire to it in the driveway.

hockeyboy

There has been a lot of talk on CNBC about GM going bankrupt. Here is an interesting article. The stock has gone from $43 to $10 in the last 9 months, although that is far from bankrupt. There has been a deathwatch on GM for years in a flawed American car business model.

http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/general-motors-death-watch-181-bankruptcy/

bobman1235

merrylander wrote: »

BBought myself another 2000 Impala LS loaded. No problems, great gas mileage and the comfort of a full size car.

17/21 is great gas mileage? For a car? Really? Maybe for a pickup.

Face

bobman1235 wrote: »

17/21 is great gas mileage? For a car? Really? Maybe for a pickup.

Where did you get that from? They average 17 local and 27-29 highway, depending on the choice of motor. I've had a few 3800 powered vehicles in the last 10 years and can say that's close to what I've gotten.

bobman1235

EPA estimates. 27-29 is reasonable.

bigaudiofanatic

I get 42-46 :Dwith my honda

sucks2beme

Nevermind.
I think I'll brush up on my horse riding skills.

mantis

I'd like to add a few experiences with GM cars and Japanese.

I grew up on GM. Olds, Buick , Pontiac , Chevy GMC trucks, etc. My grandfather got a new car every 2 years. He kept them in the garage and took top notch car of them. You could eat off the engine. My Aunt took over a 1979 Olds cutlas in 1982 which My grandfather moved on his first Ford Bronco II. He hated it with a passion and went back to GM. The Olds failed with 59k on it with the transmission, exhaust, Ball Joints, and every other thing you could think of over the next 4 years.

My Grandfather Purchased a brand new Pontiac Bonneville which was really nice. Again It lived in the garage and he decided to keep it a few years more then normal. Well at about 60k the engine would just turn itself off. The fuel system went bad including the pump. He had mad electrical problems. This car was a piece of junk and my Grandfather traded it in on a Olds Cutlas . He loved the cars but had so many problems.

I had a fw GM cars one which I miss to this day. I had a 1987 Buick Gran National. It was the fastest car I have ever owned stock and modified. But it was a piece of ****. It broke all the time. I had to replace almost the entire electrical system including window motors and switches.

I had a Firebird and basically had to rebuild the entire car.

I moved on to Nissan and had my First Maxima. Nothing broke. Nothing went wrong. We just changed the oil, brakes, belts ,etc when it was time. Strange we traded that car in for a Xterra and since 2001, we have had no problems. the Xterra has 95 k on it and it runs and works just like it did brand new.

I currently own a 2005 Pathfinder se which also had nothing go wrong. What really shocks me is it was the first year of the new body style and Nissan got it right the first time. The truck now is 3 years old with 28k on it and it runs and looks brand new.

I have several Toyota owner friends , many GM and ford friends and the GM and Ford friends have more problems then ever. My Toyota friends like me ust love there cars and trucks and don't worry about whats going to break. They worry about the new wax they wanna buy to keep there baby shinning like new.

If you want my advise, Nissan and Toyota are far superior to all americian cars. I hate to say it but they do a much better job. It's a shame this country can't build cars that can last years. Or are built right the first time. I'm sad about that as I once loved GM and most of the cars the built. The Corvette, the Camaro, My Loved Buick GN and the beautiful Firebird. But damn man I don't miss a day of breaking down on the turnpike or waking up only to find my car will not start.

Dan

Gaara

When I see a going concern paragraph issues by Deloitte then I will start to worry about GM.

Jstas

merrylander wrote: »

B... if you see an Impala with small blue and red lights on the rear shelf don't do anything stupid because you won't outrun him...

Yes I will.

Won't outrun his radio though.

BeRad

The Colorado/Canyon aren't the greatest built vehicles. I'd say go ahead and lease one if you have test driven it and like it, but if you plan to own; You'd be much better off with a Frontier or a Tacoma (worth the extra money). Again, you are definitely in a pickle having only domestic dealerships near you. Just stay away from Fords at all costs.

exalted512

Jstas wrote: »

Yes I will.

Won't outrun his radio though.

Agreed, the impala's are fast, but theyre still almost a full second slower in the quarter mile than a stock lightning
-Cody

WilliamM2

exalted512 wrote: »

Agreed, the impala's are fast, but theyre still almost a full second slower in the quarter mile than a stock lightning
-Cody

Not to mention a full 5 seconds slower in the quarter than my 15 year
old motorcycle, and 50mph down on top speed as well. Too bad about those radios...

bigaudiofanatic

mantis wrote: »

I'd like to add a few experiences with GM cars and Japanese.

I grew up on GM. Olds, Buick , Pontiac , Chevy GMC trucks, etc. My grandfather got a new car every 2 years. He kept them in the garage and took top notch car of them. You could eat off the engine. My Aunt took over a 1979 Olds cutlas in 1982 which My grandfather moved on his first Ford Bronco II. He hated it with a passion and went back to GM. The Olds failed with 59k on it with the transmission, exhaust, Ball Joints, and every other thing you could think of over the next 4 years.

My Grandfather Purchased a brand new Pontiac Bonneville which was really nice. Again It lived in the garage and he decided to keep it a few years more then normal. Well at about 60k the engine would just turn itself off. The fuel system went bad including the pump. He had mad electrical problems. This car was a piece of junk and my Grandfather traded it in on a Olds Cutlas . He loved the cars but had so many problems.

I had a fw GM cars one which I miss to this day. I had a 1987 Buick Gran National. It was the fastest car I have ever owned stock and modified. But it was a piece of ****. It broke all the time. I had to replace almost the entire electrical system including window motors and switches.

I had a Firebird and basically had to rebuild the entire car.

I moved on to Nissan and had my First Maxima. Nothing broke. Nothing went wrong. We just changed the oil, brakes, belts ,etc when it was time. Strange we traded that car in for a Xterra and since 2001, we have had no problems. the Xterra has 95 k on it and it runs and works just like it did brand new.

I currently own a 2005 Pathfinder se which also had nothing go wrong. What really shocks me is it was the first year of the new body style and Nissan got it right the first time. The truck now is 3 years old with 28k on it and it runs and looks brand new.

I have several Toyota owner friends , many GM and ford friends and the GM and Ford friends have more problems then ever. My Toyota friends like me ust love there cars and trucks and don't worry about whats going to break. They worry about the new wax they wanna buy to keep there baby shinning like new.

If you want my advise, Nissan and Toyota are far superior to all americian cars. I hate to say it but they do a much better job. It's a shame this country can't build cars that can last years. Or are built right the first time. I'm sad about that as I once loved GM and most of the cars the built. The Corvette, the Camaro, My Loved Buick GN and the beautiful Firebird. But damn man I don't miss a day of breaking down on the turnpike or waking up only to find my car will not start.

Dan

I have to agree with him.He is wright get japan cars they are better built period

Face

bigaudiofanatic wrote: »

I have to agree with him.He is wright get japan cars they are better built period

Yes, probably due to a better education system. :rolleyes:

petrym

bigaudiofanatic wrote: »

I have to agree with him.He is wright get japan cars they are better built period

I had friends in the Air Force that came from Detroit. They told me about these union guys that worked anywhere from 10-45 minutes of every hour - making $23-$27 an hour - and complaining all the time about how they were "so abused." Most of them could care less about the quality of what they're doing... they had a contract.

The unions and management blame each other, it's going to take a miracle to fix GM.

mantis

petrym wrote: »

I had friends in the Air Force that came from Detroit. They told me about these union guys that worked anywhere from 10-45 minutes of every hour - making $23-$27 an hour - and complaining all the time about how they were "so abused." Most of them could care less about the quality of what they're doing... they had a contract.

The unions and management blame each other, it's going to take a miracle to fix GM.

One of the biggest problems I see with the world or America for that matter. For the most part are some lazy **** complaining butt holes. Why don't people take pride in there work is behond me.

madmax

I think it is more about design than execution. If you look at Japanese cars they leave no way for parts to fail. Its as if all the components were designed as a whole to work with each other rather than designing each part around the last one.
madmax

sucks2beme

madmax wrote: »

I think it is more about design than execution. If you look at Japanese cars they leave no way for parts to fail. Its as if all the components were designed as a whole to work with each other rather than designing each part around the last one.
madmax

Ding. We have a match. What drives me crazy is when a technical service
bulletin details how to fix something, but the factory keeps making them wrong. Once the problem is identified, change it! Here's an example. Heater cores in Ford trucks. TSB's tell you to ground the heater core after changeout to prevent repeat problems. Last time I checked,
THEY STILL DON"T DO IT AT THE FACTORY! WTF.

Toyota has it's design screw ups, too. But 6 months later, it's no longer a problem. The factory fixes the problem. Ford and Chevy will leave the crappy part in production until the next re-tool for the vehicle. Union help is a problem. But to leave design flaws unchanged? In the 60's, racing helped improve drivetrain design. Now, only aftermarket uses it.

concealer404

bigaudiofanatic wrote: »

LMAO good luck with GM. My neighbor owns a safari van and he hates it. Broke pplenty of times. Get a chevy.

Such as a Chevy Astro?

Lolz.

hockeyboy

Gaara wrote: »

When I see a going concern paragraph issues by Deloitte then I will start to worry about GM.

I would worry about any company that relies on their stock value to fuel their infrastructure, especially when that stock value has been hammered by 75% in the last year.

bigaudiofanatic

the chevy astros are a little better than gm and i enjoy OLDer chevy's but get urself SOMETHING EVEN BETTER get a pilot or a odyssey from honda right now with the gas prices you can pice one up pretty cheap. Or even a toyota sienna.

MikeC78

You do realize that a Chevy is a GM product, right? Just making that clear...

shack

bigaudiofanatic wrote:

the chevy astros are a little better than gm and i enjoy OLDer chevy's

Interesting....since BOTH the Chevrolet Astro and the GM Safari were made at the same Baltimore assembly plant, using the same drivetrain, body parts, etc...with only different badging and minor cosmetic differences. :rolleyes:

GM will be around. They have enough cash to survive for a couple of years, have a good reputaion in Europe and several Asian partners that can help get them through this mess. What they need to do is quickly retool their plants to bring their European and Asian brands which are very economical fuel wise and start selling them here in the US. If they get their head out of their **** and recognize the new realities of $4 + gas they should survive and do well.

Norm Apter

As I read this just heard that GM is considering selling all of its lines except for Cadillac and Chevrolet.

When I was growing up (70's through early 90s) my parents always owned American cars such as Oldsmobile and Buick. When I once asked my dad, he just said that he liked to buy American. My parents now own a Honda.

I've been shopping for my first car in a while and am not even considering anything outside of Honda, Toyota or Hyundai. Reliability and fuel efficiency are my two top concerns. Someone above made fun of Honda. Go ahead and make fun but from my research it seems that they have the one of the highest resale values of all cars. That says something.

As for Japan's success, I think there is a cultural factor at work. On one hand, ever since the late 19th century they have been most adept at improving and "perfecting" upon existing technologies from the West. This is one of the reasons why their post WWII recovery was so smooth and their economy was so robust from the 1950s to the 1980s, before the bubble. In addition, the service industry and devotion to company are perhaps unparalleled in the modern world (My personal experience flying on Japan Airlines or ANA vs. say United or American bears this out. Its like night and day, in Japan's favor. All of the staff, from the guy and gal in the lowest position, do seem to care). I do think each of these factors translate into better quality vehicles.

Jstas

shack wrote: »

Interesting....since BOTH the Chevrolet Astro and the GM Safari were made at the same Baltimore assembly plant, using the same drivetrain, body parts, etc...with only different badging and minor cosmetic differences. :rolleyes:

Badging and grilles. A friend had an Astro van and two GMC Safaris with 4 more (2 Chevies, 2 GMC's) lined up in his yard for parts. As for differences, almost none. Those two I mentioned are the only differences. The other differences are in trim levels. Although I think some early years, the GMC came with AWD and the Astro did not. GM has always done that with trucks and vans. GMC comes better appointed in base model forms for each trim level but the Chevy can be just as decked out. The Chevy also starts lower in price.

schwarcw

One of the biggest problems GM and Ford face is their legacy costs for healthcare and pensions. I read somewhere where Ford is the 8th largest healthcare company in the US. All the retirees from these companies, and future retirees are given healthcare and pensions that are very good. In Japan and other countries, these costs are covered by national healthcare and social services. Therefore, US automakers must put these legacy costs into the price of their automobiles. US automakers find it difficult to compete. Additionally, monies spent for research and development and reduced so their product becomes technically inferior and the quality suffers. This is a death spiral that has become a matter of when and not if companies like GM become insolvent. US automakers will be forced to either renegotiate or default on their union agreements. None of this is very pretty or does it leave me optimistic for the future of GM. GM as we know it will be a very different company in 25 years.

madmax

GM offers a decent living to their employees. Take away the incentives and there really wouldn't be much reason to work a line type job like that. There are easier ways to make a living.
madmax

shack

madmax wrote: »

GM offers a decent living to their employees. Take away the incentives and there really wouldn't be much reason to work a line type job like that. There are easier ways to make a living.
madmax

GM, Ford and Chrysler offer wages that are on par with what the Japanese and European US plants pay. The base pay for all is around $28 an hour. When you add all of the benefits (including retiree benefits) the Big 3 jumps up to around $74 per hour vs $43 for the others.

As Carl has stated, their big problem is the lifetime medical (and other) benefits offered to the retirees. For the Big 3 US car makers that totals about $100 BILLION in liabilites. There is appx $1,500 added to the cost of each car made by those companies to cover that cost. Foreign makers do not have the high cost of medical care for their retired employees. The reasons vary ranging from they did not offer it to their employees outside of the US, many of the countries have socialized medicine and their cost and level of medical care are significantly lower than the US. Currently there are around 80,000 UAW workers employeed by GM....but there are around 350,000 GM/UAW retired workers drawing benefits. The US makers can weather down markets and restructure to meet changing demand...but if they don't find a soulution for the medical benefits...they will crumble under the weight of the problem.