This System may last a while . . .
Comments
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One hell of a system there Mike. Tough life as a student I guess.
Ahhh yes indeed . . . I do work as well and I was an incredibly diligent saver when I had a job after college and before law school. -
chargerman426 wrote: »Thats a nice set up. Why did you sell the monster power conditioner? btw it work great. just asking if you think the ps stuff is better.
The PPP is in a whole other league in my opinion. I've heard from others but never with my own ears that the lesser power conditioners PS makes may not have much better conditioning then equivalent Monster models. For me, the PPP made a very noticeable change.
If you do ever decide to buy a PS Conditioner. Steer clear of the Quintessence. A friend very close to the industry told me that PS says they stopped making them because the price point was too close to the Premier and production costs were too high. He told me the real truth is that the Quintessence was flawed and thats why you can find them for less than half value. PS apparently broke their backs just trying to get one reviewed before it broke on the reviewer. -
These do have a lot more in common with single drivers speakers than you might think: nothing between the amp and the driver; both 15" drivers and the horn tweeters cover a broader range than you typically see.
Good point. -
Solid Squal,
At that kind of efficiency, forget active pre amps. Check out some passives. Not the ones that use potentiometers but the ones that adjust voltage by autoformers. My dealer recommended this type of set up for my rig (104db/w/wm) and I'm NEVER going back to an active pre amp again. It was only when I went passive when I realised how much noise active pre amps add. I thought I was going to lose bass and dynamics by going passive but they actually improved.
Try looking for a used one, so if you don't like it you can sell it and make your $ back.
With 100db/w/m, a passive pre and low powered SET will kick some serious musical ****.
I'm going to be hard pressed to find a more quiet preamp than my Pre3. At 100dB it is dead quiet.
That being said, do you think these speakers really are 100dB given that Clayton (the designer) recommends at least 150 watts for amping the woofers? I think maybe only the tweeters are 100db. -
venomclan,
Sorry, I'm not farmiliar with that model. But if they're the autoformer type, the speaker's eff, won't matter too much. My passive can drive a pair of LSi9 through a SS amp as good as any active pre. It's the resistive circuits that have imp. and phase issues. But like you mentioned, the source output is important as well.
The reason passives fit better in an efficient system is because the speakers need very little drive to play loud. They don't need much gain. So getting rid of the gain circuit is the goal.
Let us know what you think of the pre if you decide to get it. Hope you enjoy passives as much as I do. The ghost images become spooky real.
SS,
By noise, I didn't mean hiss or hum. What I noticed was all my active pres sound dirty compared to the passive. Almost like a haze that follow the sound and all the actives sound thinner than the passive. That's just what I noticed from the stuff I own.
I just took a look at the specs sheet for your speakers again and noticed the rating was for 1Khz. So my guess is that it would be +/- several dbs throughout the freq range. All speakers are like this. The reason why a SET amp may work very well is your eff and especially the imp curve. min of 4 ohms and max of 9 is a dream for set owners. Some drivers can be very efficient even at their size. My biggest pair of speakers are the Cornwalls and La Scala. Both models use a 15" woofer, one being 98db sen. and the other at 104. Both sound best with my 3w/ch amp. I get all the volume I want with more to spare.
I'm not sure exactly how your speakers are crossed over. The specs mentioned crossing at 1KHz but I'm not sure how its done. Some x-over designs just won't work well with tubes. You can check out some forums to see if other people power those speakers with tubes. You could borrow a tube amp from someone in the area and check it out. If your speakers need a lot of damping, then SS would work best.
I can only imagine what kind of sound you get with four 15" drivers. I only use a pair and the low end is incredible.
The reason I suggested the passive pre is because you were looking for a new pre amp and your speakers are very sensitive. With a an efficient system, I find the KISS rule works out best. So just something to add to the list. -
organ, the speaker system has a active crossover."He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." Friedrich Nietzsche
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Thanks Face. If it's active, it's even easier to drive than a passive x-over. Damn, I bet they sound amazing.
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V, If you pick one up let me know, I would be interested to hear your impressions. Passive pres excel in a environment where the source has a high output w/ low output impedance, amp has a low input sensitivity and high input impedance, and speakers are efficient or listening levels are low. Speaker efficiency comes into play like Early said, and because certain passives work better in certain volume ranges, like TVCs excel in the lower half of the volume control, and actually (IMO) sound worse then resistor based ones at higher levels.
SS, as AG covered even though your pre is quite it still has gain. You are amplifying the signal+noise from the source with a active pre, not so with a passive. The signal is also passing thorough another piece of electronics that it doesn't have to be. Going passive is the purest way to get the signal from source to your amp, the only issue being a true passive won't have remote volume control, which could be problematic for some, especially with your setup.
Organ, what passive do you have? I use 2 Promitheus Audio TVCs, and a pair of Endler Attenuators.I have my Lsi7s on a HK 3480 ($185) with a budget SVS sub, and Toshiba HD-A3 currently running through a Theta Pro Progeny DAC. Sounds really good.
Very nice, the HK is a very capble integrated, I just got one for another rig and love it. My 2ch system w/7s is a modded squeezebox w/ stepped attenuators as the pre, and the amp is a Rawsonte gainclone of the LM3886 variety.chargerman426 wrote: »Thats a nice set up. Why did you sell the monster power conditioner? btw it work great. just asking if you think the ps stuff is better.
I went from a Monster 3500 to a PS Audio Duet and it was a nice improvement. In the main rig I had a 3500 and upgraded to the 7000-SS, which was a small improvement. I then upgraded to a BPT BP-2.5, decent improvement there. The guy I bought it from just got a PS Audio PPP, said it was a decent improvement over the BPT.venomclan,
Sorry, I'm not farmiliar with that model. But if they're the autoformer type, the speaker's eff, won't matter too much.
I looked at the same unit for a long while. It is a resistor based pre with lots of very small steps. I prefer TVCs to resistor based pres as well, but mainly because I listen at lower levels where TVCs excel. -
SolidSqual wrote: »I'm going to be hard pressed to find a more quiet preamp than my Pre3. At 100dB it is dead quiet.
That being said, do you think these speakers really are 100dB given that Clayton (the designer) recommends at least 150 watts for amping the woofers? I think maybe only the tweeters are 100db.
I believe that the woofers are Eminence Alpha 15a's at about 97db, but starting under 100hz the active crossover boosts the signal to the amp to account for the roll off. Thus the need for high wattage and the efficiency down there is not particularly good.
A passive pre is certainly do-able here, but I suspect you'll not be terribly impressed. After the pre- everything is converted to digital, then back to analog, so the simple source-to-amp signal path has already been broken up. Incidentally, if you do use one, gain is not going to be a problem- you can just bump up the gain in the digital crossover.Gallo Ref 3.1 : Bryston 4b SST : Musical fidelity CD Pre : VPI HW-19
Gallo Ref AV, Frankengallo Ref 3, LC60i : Bryston 9b SST : Meridian 565
Jordan JX92s : MF X-T100 : Xray v8
Backburner:Krell KAV-300i -
I like the setup. Those are some unique looking speakers. How do they sound?
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Solid
Very nice system. You put much thought into the set-up.
Do you listen in the dark?
Also what tunes would you demonstrate the system with?
I could sit there with some good single malt with the light very dim and have a blast. -
Gaara,
Excellent explanation. Good to hear you're enjoying them. I don't think I'll go back to active again for my main system.
I'm using a model from Antique Sound Lab right now. Saving up for the newer version with remote and better quality autoformers.
Here's a pic. Sorry for the bad quality. -
I listen in the dark whenever I can.
I would demonstrate the system first with some Keb Mo or Norah Jones just to prove the utter clarity and realism of these speakers. They sound like the singer is on a stool in front of you just singing to you alone!
Then I would throw on some Kodo and let the listener believe the sub was operating, then showing them it's unplugged and that the deep clean bass is actually coming from the two speakers themselves.
Then I would throw on Tool Undertow to show off the pure SPL and lack of harshness these speakers achieve at high volumes.
After this, I would throw in Marc Cohn's greatest hits and play a few favorites tracks.Solid
Very nice system. You put much thought into the set-up.
Do you listen in the dark?
Also what tunes would you demonstrate the system with?
I could sit there with some good single malt with the light very dim and have a blast. -
SS,
I just got my latest issue of Absolute sound in the mail today and saw you speakers won a 2008 Golden Ear Award! I would love to hear those speakers. Reasonable price too. -
Very impressive system! I love how you have it laid out as well. :cool:
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SS,
I just got my latest issue of Absolute sound in the mail today and saw you speakers won a 2008 Golden Ear Award! I would love to hear those speakers. Reasonable price too.
Ahh Hell Yeah . . . Clayton told me a few weeks ago that there was a high likelihood that they won one! I hope I get mine in the mail today as well. I've been dying for it. -
SolidSqual wrote: »Ahh Hell Yeah . . . Clayton told me a few weeks ago that there was a high likelihood that they won one! I hope I get mine in the mail today as well. I've been dying for it.
Got mine yesterday and saw the award. Way to go. Not as good as being on the cover of The Absolute Sound as product of the year, like say, I don't know, the Gallos were in 2004, but still, way to go man.
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Got mine yesterday and saw the award. Way to go. Not as good as being on the cover of The Absolute Sound as product of the year, like say, I don't know, the Gallos were in 2004, but still, way to go man.
Give it time pal. The product is still young. We'll see what else it may win. -
SolidSqual wrote: »Give it time pal. The product is still young. We'll see what else it may win.
I saw a Honda Civic with 8 of them, it won a Sound Off competition... -
Solid
Could you recommend a cd by Keb Mo, Kodo and Mark Cohn? They all sound interesting.
Thanks
Peter -
I own all of Keb Mo's CDs. All of them are Excellent. That being said, I started off with the CD below and believe it is one of his best.
I own many Marc Cohn albums as well. This one is a good recording and has many of his greatest songs.
This CD blew my mind. I think I first heard of Kodo recently after reading a thread started by EarlyB looking for some good drum music. This is the only CD I own and have heard of Kodo, but it is really good.
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I saw a Honda Civic with 8 of them, it won a Sound Off competition...
Jeezus . . . such a hater. You're an example of why appeasement doesn't work. I told you the Gallos were better than the Adagios and hoped you would be happy. But, now you're trying to take your fish bowls and conquer new territory. Haven't you taken enough of my polish pride? . . . still looking for more?
Hehe. That being said, once I can find a good used pair of Gallos I definitely want to own a pair. They are fun speakers and have many good attributes, but they don't have the mid range or low end capability of my CS2s. They just don't. -
Thanks for the CD list Solid.
Peter -
Here's how my system looks at night listening to Tool, 10,000 Days!
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Very cool!"He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." Friedrich Nietzsche
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"He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." Friedrich Nietzsche
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Ya know . . . another guy here in Indy has a modded Behringer and I really don't think it sounds any better. In fact, I think it made the sound less warm and a little more bright.
Walter of Unedrwood HiFi doesn't offer any modded Behringers yet. When he does I will consider it. He and Clayton seem to agree that the modded Behringers do not improve the sound as it stands now. I have to agree with them.
The modded Behringers is really kind of a moot point any way because Clayton is coming out with his own custom crossover that will be competitively priced. Current owners will also be able to trade in their Behringers. In the end, I will spend less on a new custom crossover than a modded Behringer that may not improve the sound anyway.
Mike -
. . . how long is a while?
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SolidSqual wrote: ». . . how long is a while?
Apparently not very long -
. . . that's the problem with kid's these days . . . short attention span and never happy with what they have . . .
