Eavesdropping Through Cell Phones
Comments
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Hmm, where is that passage about right to privacy in the Constitution....If you will it, dude, it is no dream.
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bobman1235 wrote: »Hmm, where is that passage about right to privacy in the Constitution....
As for privacy in the Constitution, it's not explicitly stated, just as the right to marriage isn't in the Constitution. Does that mean I'm not allowed to marry someone? As a rule utilitarian government, it's in the greatest interest of society that privacy be protected.
In this case, a warrant for a wiretap is required; this isn't just a matter of them randomly turning on phones on random people. Reasonable cause has been proven and a judge has been signed off on it. I don't see what all the fuss is about.Lovin that music year after year.
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Sorry I got it wrong it's in the Bill of Rights not the Constitution.
Amendment IV
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized. -
Sorry I got it wrong it's in the Bill of Rights not the Constitution.
Amendment IV
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.
That's privacy of property, not of conversations unfortunately.Lovin that music year after year.
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"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." Benjamin Franklin
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candyliquor35m wrote: »"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." Benjamin Franklin
I'll give you credit for posting the actual quote rather than the cherry picked one that usually makes the rounds.
It's worth noting that Franklin was talking about liberty, not privacy. How come nobody will bother quoting Benjamin Franklin when we’re talking about the liberty to choose a school curriculum for your kids or whether or not you can smoke in your car/bar?
Ben Franklin isn't exactly around to give his opinion on a world he likely never could have imagined as it exists today. Applying his words to a topic like this is basically a straw man argument and really adds nothing to this discussion. -
Perfect response Dave: Losing liberty would be the government controlling what topics you can discuss on the phone or teach in a classroom (which is happening and a MUCH bigger issue) and not just allowing them to listen in on a conversation, which they could do with a boom mike or an agent. This is just safer and less obvious for them.
I guess someone could make the argument that the "secure in" from 4 could include private telephone calls, however IMHO, if you are in public, you would lose that as it is "public" ground and not private.There is no genuine justice in any scheme of feeding and coddling the loafer whose only ponderable energies are devoted wholly to reproduction. Nine-tenths of the rights he bellows for are really privileges and he does nothing to deserve them. We not only acquired a vast population of morons, we have inculcated all morons, old or young, with the doctrine that the decent and industrious people of the country are bound to support them for all time.-Menkin -
That's privacy of property, not of conversations unfortunately.
I understand that the laws state that my emails and converstaions are my property. Anyway I'm not a lawyer but I do know that it is not legal to record a phone call with out a warrent. It's been that way for many years.
This is why Bush wants a bill passed that will exonerate the government and the phone companies who broke the law by recording or what ever they did to our emails and phone conversations. Problem is that Bush will not tell the American people what they did regarding these recordings. It's is a secret for now.
Look, we all want a safe America.
Ask yourself this question, are we a nation of laws?
Or do we change/ignore these laws any time the president wants.
I ask the people on this gruop that support any type and number of phone and email recordings by the government and phone companies:
Where do you draw the line?
Can they come into your home with your family there guns drawn for any reason without a warrent at any time?
Where do you draw the line? -
Franklin also spent most of his later years in France banging hookers and getting syphilis.
The "founding fathers" weren't exactly perfect, we just like to assign viewpoints to them when it's convenient.If you will it, dude, it is no dream. -
I understand that the laws state that my emails and converstaions are my property. Anyway I'm not a lawyer but I do know that it is not legal to record a phone call with out a warrent. It's been that way for many years.
I agree with that statement, yet concerning this topic of Cell phone ease dropping, a warrant is still required. I myself would be up in arms if that weren't the case.Lovin that music year after year.
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BTW, this isn't eaving dropping in on a phone call, this is using your phones mic to hear the conversations of the area around you.There is no genuine justice in any scheme of feeding and coddling the loafer whose only ponderable energies are devoted wholly to reproduction. Nine-tenths of the rights he bellows for are really privileges and he does nothing to deserve them. We not only acquired a vast population of morons, we have inculcated all morons, old or young, with the doctrine that the decent and industrious people of the country are bound to support them for all time.-Menkin
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bobman1235 wrote: »Franklin also spent most of his later years in France banging hookers and getting syphilis.
So is he Client #1?
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How many people do you know? Are you the slightest bit interested to listen in on their phone conversations, or to read that they got their appendix out at age 9, or lost their virginity at age 12, or got married at age 23, has 3 kids, 4 dogs 1 cat, & a pet monkey?
I know I sure as hell have no interest in it, so what makes you think that the government does?
I have access to a lot of private information on THOUSANDS of people, do I go looking for any of it outside of what's required for my job? NO I DON'T HAVE THE FRIGGIN TIME! Nor do I care, since it has NO effect, impact whatever on MY life. And even if I did, what the hell would I do with it???
The vast majority of people in this country couldn't give a damn about anyone else's business unless it impacts them. The government is trying to do the best it can to keep us safe.
Since they went & got the proper, LEGAL authorizations to get the wire taps on these cell phones on the suspects of ILLEGAL activity I don't see what the fuss is all about.Marantz AV-7705 PrePro, Classé 5 channel 200wpc Amp, Oppo 103 BluRay, Rotel RCD-1072 CDP, Sony XBR-49X800E TV, Polk S60 Main Speakers, Polk ES30 Center Channel, Polk S15 Surround Speakers SVS SB12-NSD x2 -
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I know I sure as hell have no interest in it, so what makes you think that the government does?
If they have a vested in it, say, politics? It would be very convenient for the party in power to be able to eavesdrop on rival parties... The Watergate Scandal certainly pissed off enough people, and with good cause.
Warrants are absolutely required. Without it, the government has too much power in deciding who they are allowed to listen in on. There is already a perfectly good system in place for checking this power and I have no problem with suspected criminals, with sufficient enough evidence to get a warrant, being listened in on until such a time where their guilt can be determined.Lovin that music year after year.
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candyliquor35m wrote: »
Nice...but why does anyone not say the reason.Telecommunication companies helped out during 9-11 to track any conversations going to or from extremist to see who was involved.To punish them for helping in a time of an attack on us is just wrong.I can tell you sraight up,if some moron stole a kid,and was seen talking on a cell phone,the time wasted to try and get a warrant means that kid is long gone.Now if it was your kid,you might feel differently about it.HT SYSTEM-
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Big brother is always watching...powah to the people! Source: Bluesound Node 2i - Preamp/DAC: Benchmark DAC2 DX - Amp: Parasound Halo A21 - Speakers: MartinLogan Motion 60XTi - Shop Rig: Yamaha A-S501 Integrated - Shop Spkrs: Elac Debut 2.0 B5.2
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Nice...but why does anyone not say the reason.Telecommunication companies helped out during 9-11 to track any conversations going to or from extremist to see who was involved.To punish them for helping in a time of an attack on us is just wrong.I can tell you sraight up,if some moron stole a kid,and was seen talking on a cell phone,the time wasted to try and get a warrant means that kid is long gone.Now if it was your kid,you might feel differently about it.
Tony, I agree with everything you say. The telecommunicantion companies may have helped but they also broke the law. Bush didn't even need a warrent to tap key people's emails or phone converstaions. According to the current law he had up to 48 hours to get the warrant after the recording started. So nothing was holding him back to record any one he thought may be a terrorist or kid naping a kid.
My issue is to make the government and the telecommunication companies accountable for recording Americans emails and phone converstaions.
Who did they tap and how many and why?
Why won't they explain this?
My fear is that they may have recorded anyone they wanted for any reason they wanted.
And that is against the law.
And I hope we are still a nation of laws. -
Wow, it took 2 pages. I am amazed at your restraint. Good going.
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LOL they'll patent your DNA because it contains cures for disease? OH NO!!! Don't ever give blood or sperm it might cure AIDS and you want to make sure you get paid for that.
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The same reason they don't discuss when there is going to be a secret raid performed by the military! You don't want to let the enemy know what you are doing.
Do you remember the fallout when some troops touched down somewhere & there were tv cameras there to greet them???:eek: That was unconcienable!
If they tapped the phones, it's a pretty good bet that these people were already on some suspect list. They are not going to just open up a phonebook, throw a dart on it & whatever name the dart lands on they will tap their phone.
Your fear is just that, an irrational, paranoid fear that has more to do with watching too many spy movies rather than seeing that the government has much better things to do with their time than spy on non suspect people.Who did they tap and how many and why?
Why won't they explain this?
My fear is that they may have recorded anyone they wanted for any reason they wanted.
And that is against the law.
And I hope we are still a nation of laws.Marantz AV-7705 PrePro, Classé 5 channel 200wpc Amp, Oppo 103 BluRay, Rotel RCD-1072 CDP, Sony XBR-49X800E TV, Polk S60 Main Speakers, Polk ES30 Center Channel, Polk S15 Surround Speakers SVS SB12-NSD x2 -
ROTFLMAO!!!!:D That's right because getting big bucks is certainly more important than wiping out a deadly disiese!:eek:Airplay355 wrote: »LOL they'll patent your DNA because it contains cures for disease? OH NO!!! Don't ever give blood or sperm it might cure AIDS and you want to make sure you get paid for that.Marantz AV-7705 PrePro, Classé 5 channel 200wpc Amp, Oppo 103 BluRay, Rotel RCD-1072 CDP, Sony XBR-49X800E TV, Polk S60 Main Speakers, Polk ES30 Center Channel, Polk S15 Surround Speakers SVS SB12-NSD x2
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Your fear is just that, an irrational, paranoid fear that has more to do with watching too many spy movies rather than seeing that the government has much better things to do with their time than spy on non suspect people.
You know, Communism is great in theory as well...
...and then reality came along and kicked its ****. You give anybody power, and if it's not properly checked, they will abuse it. History has shown that time and time again and I have no reason to believe this time would be any different.Lovin that music year after year.
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The whole thing is scary but you can accomplish the same thing 10 years ago with a parabolic microphone; which was defeated by counter surveillance. This too, will be defeated.
Look they have to have a warrant. That means a Federal Judge has to say its okay first, and if someone else over rules that judges warrant the information is out. Warrants really count.My Main Gear
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My issue is to make the government and the telecommunication companies accountable for recording Americans emails and phone converstaions.
Who did they tap and how many and why?
Why won't they explain this?
My fear is that they may have recorded anyone they wanted for any reason they wanted.
.
(being typed from the bomb shelter under his house that was dug for Y2K.) -
Your fear is just that, an irrational, paranoid fear that has more to do with watching too many spy movies rather than seeing that the government has much better things to do with their time than spy on non suspect people.
I remember Watergate and the Republicans in New Hampshire jaming the phones of the Democratic parety trying to get out the vote during the presidental election. And many other dirty tricks.
And you think I'm paranoid and irrational.
And now this administration can tap any phone or email.
They are here to help us.
Check it out again. -
AdamRagland wrote: »(being typed from the bomb shelter under his house that was dug for Y2K.)
I was quoting president Bush " We are a nation of laws".
It appears they are his laws for the republican party.
Throw out the Bill Of Rights. They don't apply anymore because we can't fight terrortism with these inconvient laws. What a crock. Eat some more.
Taste good? -
i have an idea. go live in ethiopia, somalia or somewhere in the same vicinity and then give me a call in about 2 months. we can then rediscuss your position on how messed up our country is.
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AdamRagland wrote: »i have an idea. go live in ethiopia, somalia or somewhere in the same vicinity and then give me a call in about 2 months. we can then rediscuss your position on how messed up our country is.
They had a much cuter expressions in the 60s and 70s.
Love it or leave it.
Get your hair cut.
60,000 solders died, did you know any of them?
Great data. F the Bill of Rights
Do you get paid to ridicule me because we disagree?
