Eavesdropping Through Cell Phones
trubluluc
Posts: 2,067
You may not want to know this, but you had better watch this video.
Privacy....is a thing of the past. Big Brother really is watching and listening.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3427979054974940808&q=cell+phone+listening&total=956&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=0
The FBI appears to have begun using a novel form of electronic surveillance in criminal investigations: remotely activating a mobile phone's microphone and using it to eavesdrop on nearby conversations.
The technique is called a "roving bug," and was approved by top U.S. Department of Justice officials for use against members of a New York organized crime family who were wary of conventional surveillance techniques such as tailing a suspect or wiretapping him.
Nextel cell phones owned by two alleged mobsters, John Ardito and his attorney Peter Peluso, were used by the FBI to listen in on nearby conversations. The FBI views Ardito as one of the most powerful men in the Genovese family, a major part of the national Mafia.
The surveillance technique came to light in an opinion published this week by U.S. District Judge Lewis Kaplan. He ruled that the "roving bug" was legal because federal wiretapping law is broad enough to permit eavesdropping even of conversations that take place near a suspect's cell phone.
Kaplan's opinion said that the eavesdropping technique "functioned whether the phone was powered on or off." Some handsets can't be fully powered down without removing the battery; for instance, some Nokia models will wake up when turned off if an alarm is set.
While the Genovese crime family prosecution appears to be the first time a remote-eavesdropping mechanism has been used in a criminal case, the technique has been discussed in security circles for years.
The U.S. Commerce Department's security office warns that "a cellular telephone can be turned into a microphone and transmitter for the purpose of listening to conversations in the vicinity of the phone." An article in the Financial Times last year said mobile providers can "remotely install a piece of software on to any handset, without the owner's knowledge, which will activate the microphone even when its owner is not making a call."
Nextel and Samsung handsets and the Motorola Razr are especially vulnerable to software downloads that activate their microphones, said James Atkinson, a counter-surveillance consultant who has worked closely with government agencies. "They can be remotely accessed and made to transmit room audio all the time," he said. "You can do that without having physical access to the phone."
Because modern handsets are miniature computers, downloaded software could modify the usual interface that always displays when a call is in progress. The spyware could then place a call to the FBI and activate the microphone--all without the owner knowing it happened. (The FBI declined to comment on Friday.)
"If a phone has in fact been modified to act as a bug, the only way to counteract that is to either have a bugsweeper follow you around 24-7, which is not practical, or to peel the battery off the phone," Atkinson said. Security-conscious corporate executives routinely remove the batteries from their cell phones, he added.
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Of course you realize that this same technology exists for anyone using a home phone with a portable handset, and or speaker phone, which is about 90% of all home phones.
To those that say: "this doesn't affect me" I will add the word "yet" to the sentence.
If you think that someone is sitting in a chair listening in all of the millions conversations that occur each day you're not appreciating technology.
That is what computers are for. They work 24 hours a day 7 days a week without getting bored or tired.
By Simply implementing "buzz word lists" they can filter and scan conversations and flag any that contain the words deemed important or suspicious.
Have you ever said "gun? in conversation? even if your talking about hunting? Gun is a buzz word. How about President...even if your talking about the president of your stereo club.
The technology is not the concern. As with any technology it can be used for good or bad. The fact that no one has to sign off on the proper use of the technology is the problem.
If the FBI or local law enforcement community suspects criminal activity they can get a wire tap or search warrant by getting a judge to order it.
My father inlaw is a superior court judge, and he says someone is available 24 hours a day 7 days a week. Even if they have to reach him at home.
A judge looks at the "probable cause" and decides whether or not to issue the warrant. He puts his name and reputation on the line. So he does it with care.
To have no one over seeing the constitutional (4th amendment) use of wire taps or surveillance opens it up to abuse.
When they get around to including a camera inside of every television set, "to further enhance your interactive experience with the media"
and we are essentially all on a 24hr webcam, I don't know about you, but that will bother me.
You can tell yourself that this doesn't affect you, fine, but don't say you didn't see it coming.
Privacy....is a thing of the past. Big Brother really is watching and listening.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3427979054974940808&q=cell+phone+listening&total=956&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=0
The FBI appears to have begun using a novel form of electronic surveillance in criminal investigations: remotely activating a mobile phone's microphone and using it to eavesdrop on nearby conversations.
The technique is called a "roving bug," and was approved by top U.S. Department of Justice officials for use against members of a New York organized crime family who were wary of conventional surveillance techniques such as tailing a suspect or wiretapping him.
Nextel cell phones owned by two alleged mobsters, John Ardito and his attorney Peter Peluso, were used by the FBI to listen in on nearby conversations. The FBI views Ardito as one of the most powerful men in the Genovese family, a major part of the national Mafia.
The surveillance technique came to light in an opinion published this week by U.S. District Judge Lewis Kaplan. He ruled that the "roving bug" was legal because federal wiretapping law is broad enough to permit eavesdropping even of conversations that take place near a suspect's cell phone.
Kaplan's opinion said that the eavesdropping technique "functioned whether the phone was powered on or off." Some handsets can't be fully powered down without removing the battery; for instance, some Nokia models will wake up when turned off if an alarm is set.
While the Genovese crime family prosecution appears to be the first time a remote-eavesdropping mechanism has been used in a criminal case, the technique has been discussed in security circles for years.
The U.S. Commerce Department's security office warns that "a cellular telephone can be turned into a microphone and transmitter for the purpose of listening to conversations in the vicinity of the phone." An article in the Financial Times last year said mobile providers can "remotely install a piece of software on to any handset, without the owner's knowledge, which will activate the microphone even when its owner is not making a call."
Nextel and Samsung handsets and the Motorola Razr are especially vulnerable to software downloads that activate their microphones, said James Atkinson, a counter-surveillance consultant who has worked closely with government agencies. "They can be remotely accessed and made to transmit room audio all the time," he said. "You can do that without having physical access to the phone."
Because modern handsets are miniature computers, downloaded software could modify the usual interface that always displays when a call is in progress. The spyware could then place a call to the FBI and activate the microphone--all without the owner knowing it happened. (The FBI declined to comment on Friday.)
"If a phone has in fact been modified to act as a bug, the only way to counteract that is to either have a bugsweeper follow you around 24-7, which is not practical, or to peel the battery off the phone," Atkinson said. Security-conscious corporate executives routinely remove the batteries from their cell phones, he added.
***
Of course you realize that this same technology exists for anyone using a home phone with a portable handset, and or speaker phone, which is about 90% of all home phones.
To those that say: "this doesn't affect me" I will add the word "yet" to the sentence.
If you think that someone is sitting in a chair listening in all of the millions conversations that occur each day you're not appreciating technology.
That is what computers are for. They work 24 hours a day 7 days a week without getting bored or tired.
By Simply implementing "buzz word lists" they can filter and scan conversations and flag any that contain the words deemed important or suspicious.
Have you ever said "gun? in conversation? even if your talking about hunting? Gun is a buzz word. How about President...even if your talking about the president of your stereo club.
The technology is not the concern. As with any technology it can be used for good or bad. The fact that no one has to sign off on the proper use of the technology is the problem.
If the FBI or local law enforcement community suspects criminal activity they can get a wire tap or search warrant by getting a judge to order it.
My father inlaw is a superior court judge, and he says someone is available 24 hours a day 7 days a week. Even if they have to reach him at home.
A judge looks at the "probable cause" and decides whether or not to issue the warrant. He puts his name and reputation on the line. So he does it with care.
To have no one over seeing the constitutional (4th amendment) use of wire taps or surveillance opens it up to abuse.
When they get around to including a camera inside of every television set, "to further enhance your interactive experience with the media"
and we are essentially all on a 24hr webcam, I don't know about you, but that will bother me.
You can tell yourself that this doesn't affect you, fine, but don't say you didn't see it coming.
Post edited by trubluluc on
Comments
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More fear-mongering from news. Hooray.
I hate that the gov. or anyone can potentially do this, but let's be realistic, the FBI doesn't give a flying crap about any of our phone conversations.If you will it, dude, it is no dream. -
bobman1235 wrote: »More fear-mongering from news. Hooray.
I hate that the gov. or anyone can potentially do this, but let's be realistic, the FBI doesn't give a flying crap about any of our phone conversations.
It's no wonder the US seems to be in a dowmward spiral. It's own citizens no longer seem to care about their civil rights.:( -
You have to pick and choose your battles, William. I'm a huge civil rights guy, but this is about number 1002 on my list of important things to be worried about.
Funny how in the FUD video, they fail to mention that a wiretapping warrant was obtained for the eavesdropping. It's not like this is a case of spying on normal citizens. This isn't Patriot Act stuff. This is the feds getting a legal warrant to bug someone's phone and using technology to make said warrant more fruitful.If you will it, dude, it is no dream. -
The only way to be truly safe is to live a clean life, don't expect your wrong-doings to be protected, limit the use of technology such as cell phones, blackberry's, and email/internet, and live in a cabin in the woods with tinfoil over the windows. Get off the grid!DKG999
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Yep, and they can also listen in to you by activating the mic in your car if you have on-star / on-star alike system.
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Bingo!bobman1235 wrote: »You have to pick and choose your battles, William. I'm a huge civil rights guy, but this is about number 1002 on my list of important things to be worried about.
Funny how in the FUD video, they fail to mention that a wiretapping warrant was obtained for the eavesdropping. It's not like this is a case of spying on normal citizens. This isn't Patriot Act stuff. This is the feds getting a legal warrant to bug someone's phone and using technology to make said warrant more fruitful.Marantz AV-7705 PrePro, Classé 5 channel 200wpc Amp, Oppo 103 BluRay, Rotel RCD-1072 CDP, Sony XBR-49X800E TV, Polk S60 Main Speakers, Polk ES30 Center Channel, Polk S15 Surround Speakers SVS SB12-NSD x2 -
tinfoil over the windows
Don't forget the tinfoil hat. This keeps the corporations mind control beams from penetrating into your brain.
I know it works. Ever since I started wearing one people look at me weird because I am not being controlled like they are. -
bobman1235 wrote: »but let's be realistic, the FBI doesn't give a flying crap about any of our phone conversations.
You are right they probably don't care.
However, if information can be obtained and processed from 1,000,000,000 phone conversations and emails with out a warrent then you may have obsolute power.
This power now is the information on 1,000,000,000 coversations that can relate to politics, the economy and life styles. That's a lot of information to process.
If this information is out there some one or company or political group will use
it for there own ends not yours.
It's not that you have anything to hid but that some one is getting a lot of free information with no wire tap warrent. This some one or company or political group could have a big advantage over all the rest.
Just consider that maybe not be a such good thing. -
This power now is the information on 1,000,000,000 coversations that can relate to politics, the economy and life styles. That's a lot of information to process.
Which is exactly why it is useless to get it. By the time you data mine all of that information and put it into a usable form, it's obsolete.There is no genuine justice in any scheme of feeding and coddling the loafer whose only ponderable energies are devoted wholly to reproduction. Nine-tenths of the rights he bellows for are really privileges and he does nothing to deserve them. We not only acquired a vast population of morons, we have inculcated all morons, old or young, with the doctrine that the decent and industrious people of the country are bound to support them for all time.-Menkin -
Which is exactly why it is useless to get it. By the time you data mine all of that information and put it into a usable form, it's obsolete.
You maybe right.
But I don't think so. Maybe not now but in the future they will.
You will not process that information on a 1000 PCs but some one has the power to process all that information.
The rewards and power of processing all that information would be incredable. -
They're out to get you. They particularly find people who smoke bongs and lick on acid dipped blotter paper to be really interesting. :rolleyes:
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Maybe they're out to get us all.
Because once they get me they will want to get you.
Maybe they already have.
We are all frogs in the pot and the water's getting hot. -
Do you ever ask yourself why you support the types of politicians who want to expand the control of government, yet you get all bent out of shape over bogus crap like this?
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Dude, the water's been hot.
But seriously, it's easy to get around this: take the damn battery out. These days if you're doing something illegal you'd damn well better make sure you're off the grid. -
who cares? just don't wear down my cell phone battery!:mad:
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http://polkarmy.com/forums/index.phpbobman1235 wrote:I have no facts to back that up, but I never let facts get in the way of my arguments. -
yea i am all for my civil rights but i really dont care if old uncle sam is listening to my phone conversations. i got nothing to hide. and if it means criminals and terrorists are being caught because of it. i really dont care if anyone does have a problem with it.
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AdamRagland wrote: »yea i am all for my civil rights but i really dont care if old uncle sam is listening to my phone conversations. i got nothing to hide. and if it means criminals and terrorists are being caught because of it. i really dont care if anyone does have a problem with it.
It's not just about finding terrorists, it's about some company or group knowing your medical history, your finacial history, your political history, your sons grades and the amount you currently have in your checking account. This information is valuable to people. They can much make money and control many things with this information.
Why would you want to give it up without a debate. Don't you want to know what they do with this information?
And do you really know what information they have been gathering with unlimited wire tapping of phones and email.
I just don't understand why any one would trust the communications companies and the government so quickly without any oversight.
Where do you draw the line? -
if its companies trying to tap my phone to find out what kind of toilet paper i use so they can try and sell me some..that would irritate me. but if this is for internal use for government. i really then do not care. maybe i am grossly less informed than i should be. seeing as how i dont deal drugs via email and i dont call little 12year old boys for sex and then to plot to kill the president with them..i think i'll be alright.
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besides it doesnt say int he video "hey everyone..the government is listening to all your phone conversations" no its saying the FBI now has the ability to turn on the mic of your cell phone to listen in on key mafia players. honestly my first reaction to that story is holy crap that is cool!
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It's not just about finding terrorists, it's about some company or group knowing your medical history, your finacial history, your political history, your sons grades and the amount you currently have in your checking account. This information is valuable to people. They can much make money and control many things with this information.
Why would you want to give it up without a debate. Don't you want to know what they do with this information?
And do you really know what information they have been gathering with unlimited wire tapping of phones and email.
I just don't understand why any one would trust the communications companies and the government so quickly without any oversight.
Where do you draw the line?
Companies doing this is blatantly illegal. Find proof they're doing it and bring it to the press and FBI and it's all over for the telcos or whoever you think is involved in this vast conspiracy. Technology exists out there to do pretty much any horrible "invasive" thing you can imagine, doesn't mean someone is doing it. Imagine what your ISP could find out about you if they were so inclined and it weren't hugely illegal.If you will it, dude, it is no dream. -
I don't think the government gives a crap about my phone conversations either polkaudio RT35 Bookshelves
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I don't think the government gives a crap about my phone conversations either
Maybe not, but the government has catalogued everything you have written on the Polk Forum. Better watch your back...HT/2-channel Rig: Sony 50 LCD TV; Toshiba HD-A2 DVD player; Emotiva LMC-1 pre/pro; Rogue Audio M-120 monoblocks (modded); Placette RVC; Emotiva LPA-1 amp; Bada HD-22 tube CDP (modded); VMPS Tower II SE (fronts); DIY Clearwave Dynamic 4CC (center); Wharfedale Opus Tri-Surrounds (rear); and VMPS 215 sub
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lol...
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You 'street lawyers' make me f*cking LAUGH! If this news is gonna keep you up tonight, then check this out: Your DNA is........NOT yours!
It belongs to whoever/ whatever biotech/ pharm. co. gets hold of it. You give blood, get blood drawn, and that sample finds it's way to a biotech firm, and they discover you've got the cure for????
Then they get the patent, NOT you. You don't see 1 red cent!
If that isn't more upsetting then the cell ph. news, then y'all got your priorities backwards.I refuse to argue with idiots, because people can't tell the DIFFERENCE! -
I'll make it easy for .gov If they're reading this.
I'm 49 and married with kids
I coach girls soccer
I've worked at the same place for almost 30 yrs
I spend a lot on A/V
I do own a "few" guns
I smoke cigars
I have a house
I pay my taxes
I lead a pretty boring life
But, if .gov is reading this, they already know all that.My equipment sig felt inadequate and deleted itself. -
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It's not just about finding terrorists, it's about some company or group knowing your medical history, your finacial history, your political history, your sons grades and the amount you currently have in your checking account. This information is valuable to people. They can much make money and control many things with this information.
Why would you want to give it up without a debate. Don't you want to know what they do with this information?
And do you really know what information they have been gathering with unlimited wire tapping of phones and email.
I just don't understand why any one would trust the communications companies and the government so quickly without any oversight.
Where do you draw the line?
All this info you mentioned is available to them without listening in.You want privacy? Dump your cell,get rid of the computer,pay cash for everything.HT SYSTEM-
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Sorry for the confusion.
I am 100% behind getting a wire tap to listen in on phones or emails to fight crime and terrorists.
The government can also wire tap or record any email without a wire tap warrent for up to 48 hours. After that they must get a warrent. This is legal. Correct me if i am wrong about that.
However, it is now clear that the government and the phone companies wire tapped and recorded emails of people without getting any warrents for 5 years.
This is not legal.
Bush has tried to get a new law pasted that would make the past non legal wire taps legal. This bill from Bush hasn't done very well yet because some people in congress want to know what and how many people the government and phone companies did wire tap. If they wire tapped 1,000,000 people 100 of times that's different from wire tapping 10,000 once or twice.
It's not about the fact that you have nothing to hid it's about your rights under the constitution. It's a right to privacy. Your medical records, tax returns, what food you buy, what tv shows you like, what amplifier you own.....
Is there a need to wire tap everyone to fight terrorism? Maybe. But lets have a debate before we roll over to the phone companies and the government.
Our solders are fighting for these rights in other countries.
It would be strange for them to come home and find them gone with out a debate.
I hope this isn't regarded as politics but rather a topic about our government and the constitution. But if this topic is baned it's their site not mine. -
Freedom is anything but FREE. You can thank the Terrorists of the world for the rising "cost" of Freedom.No excuses!
