Speaker wire does make a difference

theshawn

Thanks for the input y'all, much appreciated.

NJPOLKER

Everything makes a difference.

Poor quality components don't matter if you can't hear a difference

High quality components don't matter if you can't hear a difference

Nothing matters if you can't hear a difference

tonyb

F1nut wrote: »

As long as you're sticking with that kind of standard generic stranded copper cable, they're all going to sound pretty much the same.

Bingo....then the comments of I can't hear a difference follows.

Drenis

FWIW, I had bought some of this Monster speaker wire for subs long ago and guess what? It wasn't copper inside! AT least, not in color.

tonyb

Drenis wrote: »

FWIW, I had bought some of this Monster speaker wire for subs long ago and guess what? It wasn't copper inside! AT least, not in color.

Same experience here in my youth of course. Lessons learned the hard way.

Hows the new joint coming along btw ? All moved in ? Got your pics of Celine Dion and David Foster up yet ? :biggrin:

Drenis

tonyb wrote: »

Hows the new joint coming along btw ? All moved in ? Got your pics of Celine Dion and David Foster up yet ? :biggrin:

LOL... no pictures up yet and it's been a unusually long and stressful unpack. Haven't listened to the stereo since the day I set it up. Enjoying the new place though as it saves money long term.

Thanks for asking.

WLDock

Drenis wrote: »

FWIW, I had bought some of this Monster speaker wire for subs long ago and guess what? It wasn't copper inside! AT least, not in color.

tonyb wrote: »

Same experience here in my youth of course. Lessons learned the hard way. Hows the new joint coming along btw ? All moved in ? Got your pics of Celine Dion and David Foster up yet ? :biggrin:

Coming from someone who thinks Monster has a marketing team that is giving Bose a run for their money....I think you guys are being a little hard on monster.

While I have no idea what the XLN cable is coated with on the outer, it has a different color center:


So if one believes that stranded wire is stranded wire in terms of sound..then why not go for the one that the the cheapest and has known good quality? IME, the no name off the roll wire corrodes and turns an ugly green real fast and in contrast the Monster wire has held up over time...was even used in different installs in the various car and home systems I have done for myself and others.

Here are some prices:


Stranded wire
AudioQuest FLX 14 AWG- ~$1.00/ft
Beldon 5000UP 12 AWG - $0.59/ft
Canare 4S11 14 AWG x 2 - $1.35/ft
Carol 2C SJ 12 AWG - $0.87/ft
Gepco HBW Series 12 AWG - $1.05/ft
Gepco HD Series 12 AWG - $0.90/ft
Home Depot Speaker Wire off the roll 14 AWG - $0.64/ft
Home Depot Southwire 500 ft. Black 12-Gauge THHN Wire - $70 roll or $0.14/ft
Mogami W3103 12 AWG - $2.80/ft
Monster original ~10-11 AWG - $0.87/ft
Monster XLN 12 AWG - $0.45/ft SHIPPED!
Monoprice CL2 12 AWG - $0.33/ft

In all, if one can get the Monster Original stranded wire or the XLN stranded wire at a cheap price like $0.45/ft shipped then it is worth it IMO. That same roll of 18 FT 12 AWG is $24 at another site!!!! The regular retail price on many of their products is not worth it. Still, anything on the list above will get the job done in the lower priced wire segment....especially for the multiple runs needed for HT.

However, IMO, if one is to spend a lot of money on multi-strand solid core wire then I think there are several other things that need to be in place: The equipment, the room, the source material, the interconnects, the crossovers, etc. and ONES OWN EARS really need to be worthy.

WLDock

The speaker wire making a difference question will always be a matter of opinion as we all hear different. I can't help but to think of my own hearing vs. a good friend of mine. We have both played music every since we were kids and he is an awesome talent and has a good ear for music and improvisation. However, going back to our teens, 20's, 30's I always thought his high frequency hearing was off. Whenever he would adjust the PA the top end and even mid range was HOT! I would always have to go behind him and flatten out things. In contrast my hearing was more sensitive. Hot or badly adjusted PA systems would give me a headache.


If we both were to audition the same high end 2 ch system in the same room I am sure our ability to hear differences in wire/cables would be totally different. Now in our 40's I can't deny the fact that my high freq hearing is not the same as it was in my 20's. Still, I am convinced that I could hear more subtle difference in equipment than my bud even though he turned out to be a much better musician than myself. I guess I have heard cases of the musician and the engineer disagreeing about the final mix.:biggrin:


So, I think one would really have to get all the other factors together before they can decide that a $250, $500, or $1500 set of speaker cables is worth it to them. Then there is the DIY cable vs. brand ? argument and blind test debate as well. IMO, speakers are the most subjective piece of equipment in a system in terms of defining what sounds good to ones ears. I see wire as being a more subtle difference when compared to speakers.

PolkieMan

Since we are having a good discussion on wire how about those little iron rings that I see from time to time on like VGA/ HDMI cables would they serve a purpose on speaker wire?

dragon1952

Ha ha.......a five yr old thread and still the same arguments going back and forth. It picked up right where it left off like we all just fell asleep for 5 yrs.

WLDock

This will go on till wire is no longer needed to connect components and speakers.

Toolfan66

WLDock wrote: »

This will go on till wire is no longer needed to connect components and speakers.

Agreed!!

tonyb

WLDock wrote: »

... I see wire as being a more subtle difference when compared to speakers.

Yes and no, it can be subtle or more pronounced. Everything in the chain is going to impart something on the sound. In general, yeah, speakers will contribute the most to the sound imho too. Thing for me is, once you start moving up the chain of speakers, the electronics and cables have to follow too. After all, whats the point of forking out the coin for great speakers if you won't let them operate at their best ?

theshawn

WLDock wrote: »

This will go on till wire is no longer needed to connect components and speakers.

Uh huh....then the argument will be about wired vs. non-wired sound or about how one company makes a wireless signal that is better than another.....

polkfarmboy

theshawn wrote: »

Uh huh....then the argument will be about wired vs. non-wired sound or about how one company makes a wireless signal that has less jitter than another.....

Fixed it for ya :cheesygrin:

BlueFox

That's right PFB. It will either be jitter, or something else unique to wireless, that people will try to correct. And if it exists then we will have another interesting subject to discuss.

Jhayman

Which we should already be aware of, as you know BF they already have a high priced Ethernet cable..

WLDock

tonyb wrote: »

Yes and no, it can be subtle or more pronounced. Everything in the chain is going to impart something on the sound. In general, yeah, speakers will contribute the most to the sound imho too. Thing for me is, once you start moving up the chain of speakers, the electronics and cables have to follow too. After all, whats the point of forking out the coin for great speakers if you won't let them operate at their best ?

I agree....that's why I posted on the "LSIM707 BiWire post"

http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?149305-Lsim-707-and-bi-amps&highlight=LSiM

They were talking about $200 jumpers and Bi-Wiring, etc. which I think is absurd when you think of all the connections inside of the 707 speaker. Why spend a bunch of money on speaker wires and jumpers when there are a ton of metal to metal connections and cost effective, wire, compnents, PCB, in the signal chain? Your end result will only be as good as the weak link in the chain:

IMO, this should be the start before spending a lot of cash on speaker wire:


Not saying that what Polk did was not sutable as they are awesome physicist and engineers....but, they have to get mass produced high quality out the door at a decent price that the bean counters and the consumers are good with....so they can only go so far on the wire, crossovers, and connections.


I guess i still don't get the $200 jumpers? Hell, if I had $100K burning a hole in my pocket and I just picked up a set of JBL Everest and a couple of Krell mono blocks, I guess $200 jumpers and $5k+ wire falls right inline?

tonyb

Gotcha....but your hitting the extremes. You don't need to spend 5g's on cables either. There's a vast amount of real estate in-between monoprice and 5g cables. Your analogy just doesn't hold water. You yourself said if you had the cash, Krell mono blocks would be on your radar. If that's the case, how could all that electronics benefit from the crap wiring in the wall, if following your thought process. The only other assumption is that by stating if you had the cash only reflects that you must justify somehow that you don't. Well, some people do have the cash, which elevates them to be able to play audio on a whole other level.

We have this discussion a gazillion times a year, and I'll wager within the next few days someone else will come along and post why cables don't/do matter.....blah blah. Gets old my friend, but one has to be willing to try new things before jumping to conclusions.

For me personally, I could give a rats behind if a cable is made with 6n copper or 9n, stranded, twisted, 9ga or 14 ga. Silver, Palladium, or some other exotic metallurgy. Solid core, air dielectric, or whatever. It could be made out of dog poo for all I care. It's how it sounds in my system to my ears and that's the bottom line. How it happens, why it happens, the science of it all, irrelevant to me.

tonyb

Hey man, anyone that can form dog poo into cables.....and shield them to hide the smell, has my admiration.:biggrin:

ZLTFUL

tonyb wrote: »

Hey man, anyone that can form dog poo into cables.....and shield them to hide the smell, has my admiration.:biggrin:

What do you think that playdough looking stuff on the ends of his cables really is? :eek:

headrott

WLDock wrote: »

I agree....that's why I posted on the "LSIM707 BiWire post"

http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?149305-Lsim-707-and-bi-amps&highlight=LSiM

They were talking about $200 jumpers and Bi-Wiring, etc. which I think is absurd when you think of all the connections inside of the 707 speaker. Why spend a bunch of money on speaker wires and jumpers when there are a ton of metal to metal connections and cost effective, wire, compnents, PCB, in the signal chain? Your end result will only be as good as the weak link in the chain:

IMO, this should be the start before spending a lot of cash on speaker wire:


Not saying that what Polk did was not sutable as they are awesome physicist and engineers....but, they have to get mass produced high quality out the door at a decent price that the bean counters and the consumers are good with....so they can only go so far on the wire, crossovers, and connections.


I guess i still don't get the $200 jumpers? Hell, if I had $100K burning a hole in my pocket and I just picked up a set of JBL Everest and a couple of Krell mono blocks, I guess $200 jumpers and $5k+ wire falls right inline?

Sir, there have been an innumerable number of posts about Polkies updating their speakers PCB's, Caps, resistors, binding posts, internal wire, and a great number of other internal to the speaker tweeks to update and improve their speakers. Particualrly the SDA line of speakers. If you haven't seen/read them please look up Darqueknight's (Ray's) very thorough and informative threads regarding the updating and improvement to the sound (or lack of improvement, or detriment too). Aslo, there have been an innumerable number of posts regarding speaker wire, jumpers, amps, pre-amps, sources, etc. external to the speakers (and the improvement, lack of improvement, or detriment to the audio). Go check it out please.

Jhayman

long story short Don't listen to anyone but yourself about wire, if YOU hear a difference then that's all that matters..
I've come to a conclusion that Human ears and the ear canal are not all created equal and the region of the brain that makes Logical decisions..
BUT you have to at least try different cables or wire before dismissing it.

Kazimir

theshawn wrote: »

Uh huh....then the argument will be about wired vs. non-wired sound or about how one company makes a wireless signal that is better than another.....

Don't forget about the air purity and humidity levels that are more optimal for wireless transmission.

treitz3

PolkieMan wrote: »

Since we are having a good discussion on wire how about those little iron rings that I see from time to time on like VGA/ HDMI cables would they serve a purpose on speaker wire?

Hello, PolkieMan. I do not believe anybody addressed your question yet. What you are talking about is a ferrite. I would tend to think that they would have no impact on a speaker wire due from most speaker magnets being made of ferrite or alnico. I personally do not ever recall seeing a speaker wire having a ferrite core around it. PC's, IC's and other types of interconnect cables, yes. SC's, no.

Tom

Jhayman

That's what I Said, if You hear a difference then that's all that matters..
If you can't hear any differences then buy yourself a $99 system

DSkip wrote: »

Everything makes a difference, its just whether or not you can hear it. If you can't it doesn't mean it isn't altering the sound in some way, better or worse. When listening on your own system, its far easier to hear the differences since you're already so familiar with the system.

It's like saying there's a difference between a 92 mph and 95 mph fastball. If you can't hit either one, it doesn't matter which one you see. You can't deny or dismiss that there is a difference in speed, it just doesn't matter in your situation. For someone who can hit a 92 mph fastball, facing a 95 mph fastball might be an entirely different monster.

Systems

I posted this in the wrong thread.
But IMHO:
Either speaker cables make a differnece or they do not make a difference and I have have heard it both ways.
From my personal experience YMMV..... IC's make a bigger difference than speaker cables.

Combined with a good digital cable, I would upgrade the source cables first.

Then the speaker cables.
Look at the Nordost Flatline when your ready for SC's (doubt you will ever go back to any other, and only look forward from there).

Under $100 for the Flatlines, depending on how long you need.

PS: I have some of the AQ Midnight on hand here if you need more!
Make ya a good deal Dragon1952!:cheesygrin:

WLDock

headrott wrote: »

Sir, there have been an innumerable number of posts about Polkies updating their speakers PCB's, Caps, resistors, binding posts, internal wire, and a great number of other internal to the speaker tweeks to update and improve their speakers. Particualrly the SDA line of speakers. If you haven't seen/read them please look up Darqueknight's (Ray's) very thorough and informative threads regarding the updating and improvement to the sound (or lack of improvement, or detriment too). Also, there have been an innumerable number of posts regarding speaker wire, jumpers, amps, pre-amps, sources, etc. external to the speakers (and the improvement, lack of improvement, or detriment to the audio). Go check it out please.

I've read posts here, there, and other places around the net. I've played with DIY passives vs. active a little, etc, etc....I even want to do a DIY design at some point. I know these post are old , tired and drawn out but I think we are on the same page........Ultimately its ones own ears that will determine at what point one needs to leave well enough alone! I know its been said a million times before.

Jhayman

Does anyone remember these cables, they were my first expensive cable purchase in the early 90's..
I also have the Black Knights which are in use..

Systems

Jhayman wrote: »

Does anyone remember these cables, they were my first expensive cable purchase in the early 90's..
I also have the Black Knights which are in use..

Never heard the Nordost IC's?:eek:
Any good?

I bought a pair of the Nordost Flatline speaker cables about 4 years ago (my second pair), and still have them in use today!:cheesygrin: