Speaker wire does make a difference

dragon1952

I've proven to myself yet again. I had some Audioquest Midnight speaker cable in my system for a couple years. This wire is so stiff and hard to work with it's basically not worth hassling with. When I moved into the new house I decided I wasn't going to screw with it anymore so I used some Canare Star Quad I had laying around. Well I haven't been real happy with the system lately. I gave it a good 2 months and I finally decided to try the Midnight again. It took me a freakin' hour to change the bananas. It's like wrestling an anaconda for crying out loud. I stabbed myself with the screwdriver several times, lost a lot of blood and muttered lots of nasty things under my breath, but wow what a change. Anybody that says speaker cable can't make a difference is seriously uninformed. I don't know...maybe it's just the blood loss affecting me. :rolleyes:

Face

dragon1952 wrote: »

I've proven to myself yet again. <snip>Anybody that says speaker cable can't make a difference is seriously uninformed.

Thank you!

I've tried a few different cables in my rig. While some sound alike(monster, monoprice, etc...), some cables can sound drastically different, for better or worse. It's all about synergy.

dragon1952

I've had that Canare in various systems over the past 3 years and I always end up dissatisfied with it. I need to give it away so it doesn't end up in there again.

bbeacham

Face wrote: »

Thank you!

I've tried a few different cables in my rig. While some sound alike(monster, monoprice, etc...), some cables can sound drastically different, for better or worse. It'll all about synergy.

Yes. I went from 16 guage wire to 12 guage stranded copper that I bought at the hardware store, and it made a fantastic improvement in sound quality.

dorokusai

Enjoy your upgrade!

mule

I'm not trying to start a flame war, but I have a few questions.

Copper is copper is copper, right?

The electrons are supposed to pass on the surface of the wire as opposed to the core so I understand that the same gauge of wire with more strands theoretically should have less resistence, but can this make a difference and how does this make a difference in the end result of speaker sound?

Gold is a better conductor, but at some point you will have to go from copper to gold, How does it make a difference going from gold to copper at a banana or at the post, sooner or later there is going to be a connection between gold and copper.

I don't have a concrete opinion one way or the other, just looking for a technical reason and not a opinion swayed by bling appeal.

I will say that when I asked my brother, (who has a rediculous amount of expirience and education with electronics) without going into a long winded reply told me to use 14 gauge stranded copper, didn't matter if it was lamp cord or some fancy pants "audio" cord.

m00npie

mule wrote: »

when I asked my brother, (who has a rediculous amount of expirience and education with electronics) without going into a long winded reply told me to use 14 gauge stranded copper, didn't matter if it was lamp cord or some fancy pants "audio" cord.

Well... I asked my mom, and she told me that cables do make difference and she told me to be happy with my new MIT's.

Mike Reeter

I think it depends on the "Quality" of copper...Most of your better wire is almost "pure" in mixture.

Most of the cheaper stuff is just that,copper that is mixed with alot of "filler" tin.

mule

m00npie wrote: »

Well... I asked my mom, and she told me that cables do make difference and she told me to be happy with my new MIT's.

I am very proud of you, and your mom.:rolleyes:

mule

Mike Reeter wrote: »

I think it depends on the "Quality" of copper...Most of your better wire is almost "pure" in mixture.

Most of the cheaper stuff is just that,copper that is mixed with alot of "filler" tin.

Makes sense, but how would one know if it is pure copper or not?

Just my curious nature.

treitz3

A lab will verify it it's pure for ya'.

mule

Ok, so bare with me for a minute,

The wire is moving current, it dosen't know if its music or not, just electrons buzzing along.

Lets use the analogy of water through a hose. The voltage is like the pressure and amperage is like the volume of water being moved. 220v like the fire hydrant and 110v like your garden hose. Compareing a ten foot length of 1/2 inch hose to a 5/8 inch hose would show no noticable difference, but comparison between 25 foot length of hose would show the 5/8 hose flowing a greater volume of water= less resistence. The longer the run the need for a larger diameter hose to move the same volume of water, or you could increase the pressure to overcome the resistence.

So I think we can all visualize the need for a larger gauge wire to move the same current over longer runs but I think we can also see that at some point a larger gauge wire is no longer going to have effect on the current being passed.

Now I would guess that comparing dirty copper conducter to pure copper conducter would be like comparing a smooth piece of pipe to a pipe that is rough. The rough pipe will cause some resistence in water flow but at the same time if you increased the diameter of the rough pipe it would balance out and as the length of pipe increased the resistence would be more noticable.

So I can see how in extremely long runs or in systems moving extreme amounts of current (fire hydrant not garden hose) there could be a difference in the wire but for the average home system in a 300 sqrft room I don't see how it could make a difference in the current being moved.

I don't think the speakers know if the electrons got "dirty" in the wire, they just know how many got there. I guess if there was enough resistence in the wire it could cause the amp to run hot and less efficient and degrade performance.

Sorry for being long winded, if you see anything inacurate in my analogy or have any opinions please post, I am allways eager to learn. Just my curious nature.:D

tonyb

If your eager to learn,the search button is your friend.This topic has been beaten to death so much,most will avoid this conversation.

janmike

Synergy.

shack

Dragon,

It's all in your head...you have fooled yourself AGAIN into believing all of the audio cable VOODOO! You are a sheeple who has bought into the hype. SHAME ON YOU!

I am of course willing to help you fight through this serious affliction. I can get you back on the path of sanity and reason.

First...you must send me those Midnights. You have my address. I will see that they are disposed of. After that we can get you back on the road to recovery. I’m here for you.

janmike

Well Shack, maybe you can help me as well. I will send you all my MIT's at once.

shack

janmike wrote: »

Well Shack, maybe you can help me as well. I will send you all my MIT's at once.

Send them to me. I'm just here to help...Dr shack

tcrossma

Punch a whole bunch of holes in your hose, put a bunch of diamonds in your "source" water, and push it all through your hose. And don't come crying when you've lost a lot of your diamonds on the other end. But hey, you'll have plenty of water.

Sure, diamond don't float very well and probably wouldn't escape through the holes. So what. It's an analogy based completely on something other than fact because you know what? I'm not an expert.

I don't think "copper is copper", no. I also don't think that using water is a good analogy, because if there's no holes in your hose then all the water will eventually get to the other end. I don't think that those little electrons going down a cable follow the same rules. They can be lost or changed by many different means, such as interference from other sources or from within.

I sure am getting sick of these debates. If you don't think cables make a difference in your system, then maybe they don't. Maybe your equipment sucks or maybe you've never tried good enough cables that make a difference. To me, in my system, they do.

Gaara

dragon1952 wrote: »

Anybody that says speaker cable can't make a difference is seriously uninformed.

tcrossma wrote: »

I sure am getting sick of these debates. If you don't think cables make a difference in your system, then maybe they don't. Maybe your equipment sucks or maybe you've never tried good enough cables that make a difference. To me, in my system, they do.

Why does someone who doesn't think there is a difference in wires must be uninformed or their equipment sucks? If you can hear a difference great, but please don't throw insults at guys who can't, thats how the fights generally start (or vice versa).

tcrossma

Apologies for the insult, it was not intended as one. Sorry for letting that slip in there.

Systems

tcrossma wrote: »

Apologies for the insult, it was not intended as one. Sorry for letting that slip in there.

BANNED

Chuck

Road Runner

mule wrote: »

Lets use the analogy of water through a hose. The voltage is like the pressure and amperage is like the volume of water being moved. 220v like the fire hydrant and 110v like your garden hose. Compareing a ten foot length of 1/2 inch hose to a 5/8 inch hose would show no noticable difference, but comparison between 25 foot length of hose would show the 5/8 hose flowing a greater volume of water= less resistence. The longer the run the need for a larger diameter hose to move the same volume of water, or you could increase the pressure to overcome the resistence.

If you believe this stuff, then there's a whole lot more going on:

In reality, a high-end audio cable must balance resistance, capacitance, inductance, conductance, velocity of propagation, RF radiation and absorption, mechanical resonance, strand interaction, high filtering, reflections, electrical resonance, dissipation factors, envelope delay, phase distortion, harmonic distortion, , structural return loss, corrosion, cross-talk, bridge-tap and the interaction of these and a hundred other things.

http://www.cardas.com/content.php?area=insights&content_id=5&pagestring=Why+Cardas?

Based on what I've read, I'm pretty skeptical. If they have a higher profit margin for cables than anything else, then that makes me even more skeptical.

Sami

Putting enough of water flowing that big pipe, and then narrowing it down you'll be cutting down those diamonds in no time.

Want to get technical, start here: http://www.roger-russell.com/wire.htm

Excellent read.

Imperitor

I'll be so happy when they invent cordless speakers... until then let round 52384 of the debate continue.

I still want to try out those coat hangers...

mule

Thanks for the Cardas link, I read the stuff there.

To simplify, their idea is that by using a larger conducter you would move the same volume but loose "speed and pressure" to stick with the water analogy over using a better conductor. Makes sense to me. And by using a "shielded" conductor the sine wave will not be altered.

I am simplifying all the jargon but that is the way I understand it, but I could be wrong.

Interesting and logical, now I am curious if I could really hear a difference.

Gaara

tcrossma wrote: »

Apologies for the insult, it was not intended as one. Sorry for letting that slip in there.

No biggie, just saying that usually thats how the fights begin. I personally don't really hear a difference in well constructed speaker wire and feel my system is adequate, but won't try and convince those that do.

Looking at the next few posts I guess I was wrong, they start anyway. Ohwell.

Sami

mule wrote: »

To simplify, their idea is that by using a larger conducter you would move the same volume but loose "speed and pressure" to stick with the water analogy over using a better conductor. Makes sense to me.

If that's an argument, then they are forgetting that the speaker bind is not the signals final destination. There is still wire to travel inside the speaker and that will get the "pressure" to equalize to the same with even largest cables. Only if the cable is too small in diameter will the flow be less.

mule

Sami wrote: »

If that's an argument, then they are forgetting that the speaker bind is not the signals final destination. There is still wire to travel inside the speaker and that will get the "pressure" to equalize to the same with even largest cables. Only if the cable is too small in diameter will the flow be less.

Damn, thats a good point, shoveling **** through a funnel

hearingimpared

Yawn~~~~~~~~~~~

maximillian

Road Runner wrote: »

If you believe this stuff, then there's a whole lot more going on:
http://www.cardas.com/content.php?area=insights&content_id=5&pagestring=Why+Cardas?

From the site:

In reality, a high-end audio cable must balance resistance, capacitance, inductance, conductance, velocity of propagation, RF radiation and absorption, mechanical resonance, strand interaction, high filtering, reflections, electrical resonance, dissipation factors, envelope delay, phase distortion, harmonic distortion, , structural return loss, corrosion, cross-talk, bridge-tap and the interaction of these and a hundred other things.

Mechanical resonance?!? Strand interaction?!? Structural return loss ?!?

Crap, why not throw in stuff like cable sag losses, corona discharge, or anti-cat coating.

shack

hearingimpared wrote: »

Yawn~~~~~~~~~~~

HEY! That's my line....