Speaker wire does make a difference

Jhayman

Nope, we were just informed by you..
Old house old wire old room, new house new wire new room different sound of course..
Personally I think it was the spilled blood on the cable that affected it sonically, lol

dragon1952 wrote: »

I've proven to myself yet again. I had some Audioquest Midnight speaker cable in my system for a couple years. This wire is so stiff and hard to work with it's basically not worth hassling with. When I moved into the new house I decided I wasn't going to screw with it anymore so I used some Canare Star Quad I had laying around. Well I haven't been real happy with the system lately. I gave it a good 2 months and I finally decided to try the Midnight again. It took me a freakin' hour to change the bananas. It's like wrestling an anaconda for crying out loud. I stabbed myself with the screwdriver several times, lost a lot of blood and muttered lots of nasty things under my breath, but wow what a change. Anybody that says speaker cable can't make a difference is seriously uninformed. I don't know...maybe it's just the blood loss affecting me. :rolleyes:

Jhayman

You obviously were not here for our big HDMI cable debate, apperantly there is or is not a difference.........bring popcorn

kl3640 wrote: »

In an analog system, the quality of the conductor (and thus signal loss, interference, etc.) makes a big difference. Not so much in a digital system so long as the transmission standard's minimum requirement is met. Thus, in an analog system, 18ga gold wire vs 18ga copper wire with the same exact construction, insulators, etc, will make a difference. In a digital system, such as say a data network, I won't purchase anything beyond the minimum design for the maximum data throughput (current or planned) for my system. Therefore, if I was wiring an insurance office for gig-copper and I never thought I'd need more than that, I might only get Cat 5e. However, if I was wiring a computer graphics shop, I'd go with Cat 6e or fiber or something, because I'm always going to push the envelope of the data rate.

Perhaps a better example: I might spend a lot on a certain brand of copper cables for my SDA SRS 1.2 TL's, but I wouldn't spend a lot on a HDMI or digital optical audio cable so long as they're certified to meet the minimum transport standard. Those MONSTER "silver" and "gold" HDMI cables are the biggest rip-offs going...after all, it's a digital standard!

custopper30

college student budget, monoprice ftw

halo71

Jhayman.....psst....you are arguing with posts that are 5 years old! lol

Jhayman

Not arguing just having fun, note the , lol and bring popcorn Humor..

Polkie2009

I'm really looking forward to ordering some of Doug's speaker cables!!!

treitz3

Mownhoj wrote: »

Thanks Fellas for keeping this thread so informative and respectful

Hello, John and welcome to the forum. It is nice when that happens. Folks actually learn.

Mownhoj wrote: »

So, after reading these posts, I am wondering if my speaker wire might be an issue.

From what you mention, I would tend not to think so. Upgraded cables, while they *can* and will make a positive change [given the right circumstances], will not correct any rear channel deficiencies. The home improvement stuff would be on par with what you currently have....unless they are oxidized beyond recovery.

Tom

Mownhoj

OK, thanks for the info everyone. It sounds like my system really isn't at a level that wire could make much of a difference. I'm only running wire maybe 15 feet at the most so I suppose I'll just get some affordable wire for now.
Thanks,
John

Jhayman

That is the best looking Velociraptor I've ever seen..

Rick88 wrote: »

Attachment not found.

Geoff4rfc

Jhayman wrote: »

That is the best looking Velociraptor I've ever seen..

Maybe so, but that's a very impressive rack....uh....gear rack, right?? Ok, how 'bout classic rack? Thanks Rick, for bringing a classic rack to an outdated thread

TheHammer610

Mike Reeter wrote: »

I think it depends on the "Quality" of copper...Most of your better wire is almost "pure" in mixture.

Most of the cheaper stuff is just that,copper that is mixed with alot of "filler" tin.

LOL. What is the filler? Kitty litter? Nope, there is none.

Some people get into oxide free. Well, copper oxide does not conduct well. If it were in standard wire, then the resistance would be higher and that is measurable.

Sorry, the only difference between wire is resistance, stranded vs. solid, gauge. #16 stranded gauge is fine unless your speaker wires are exceptionally long.

And don't forget about all that wire inside the speaker (the speaker coil). And the crossover...

OK, don't believe me? Then try a double-blind test yourself. But it has to be blind, or your expectations will influence what you "hear". In every test ever done with speaker wire, when the tester did not know what was being tested, the listener could not find the difference. ABX would be better, but that requires special equipment.

OK, I know I will never convince you, but I feel better.

http://consumerist.com/2008/03/03/do-coat-hangers-sound-as-good-monster-cables/

http://home.provide.net/~djcarlst/abx_wire.htm

http://www.head-fi.org/t/486598/testing-audiophile-claims-and-myths

Jhayman

Popcorn anyone?

ken brydson

TheHammer610 wrote: »

LOL. What is the filler? Kitty litter? Nope, there is none.

Some people get into oxide free. Well, copper oxide does not conduct well. If it were in standard wire, then the resistance would be higher and that is measurable.

Sorry, the only difference between wire is resistance, stranded vs. solid, gauge. #16 stranded gauge is fine unless your speaker wires are exceptionally long.

And don't forget about all that wire inside the speaker (the speaker coil). And the crossover...

OK, don't believe me? Then try a double-blind test yourself. But it has to be blind, or your expectations will influence what you "hear". In every test ever done with speaker wire, when the tester did not know what was being tested, the listener could not find the difference. ABX would be better, but that requires special equipment.

OK, I know I will never convince you, but I feel better.

http://consumerist.com/2008/03/03/do-coat-hangers-sound-as-good-monster-cables/

http://home.provide.net/~djcarlst/abx_wire.htm

http://www.head-fi.org/t/486598/testing-audiophile-claims-and-myths

Did you join just for this? Where's the Roger Rabbit, I mean Russell link?

F1nut

In every test ever done with speaker wire, when the tester did not know what was being tested, the listener could not find the difference.

That's an outright lie and just goes to show that you don't know what you're talking about.

So, what cables have you actually tried in your rig?

ZLTFUL

Note to self...personal attacks will get you banned so no comments about the questionable genetic make up of a human/jackass experiment.

Toolfan66

TheHammer610 wrote: »

LOL. What is the filler? Kitty litter? Nope, there is none.

Some people get into oxide free. Well, copper oxide does not conduct well. If it were in standard wire, then the resistance would be higher and that is measurable.

Sorry, the only difference between wire is resistance, stranded vs. solid, gauge. #16 stranded gauge is fine unless your speaker wires are exceptionally long.

And don't forget about all that wire inside the speaker (the speaker coil). And the crossover...

OK, don't believe me? Then try a double-blind test yourself. But it has to be blind, or your expectations will influence what you "hear". In every test ever done with speaker wire, when the tester did not know what was being tested, the listener could not find the difference. ABX would be better, but that requires special equipment.

OK, I know I will never convince you, but I feel better.

http://consumerist.com/2008/03/03/do-coat-hangers-sound-as-good-monster-cables/

http://home.provide.net/~djcarlst/abx_wire.htm

http://www.head-fi.org/t/486598/testing-audiophile-claims-and-myths

Glad you feel better, but I hope you realize you haven't sold anybody!! Still feel better? I have done my own testing, in my own rig, and your rant means nothing..

Jhayman

See a preschool timeout does wonders..lol
Welcome Back

ZLTFUL wrote: »

Note to self...personal attacks will get you banned so no comments about the questionable genetic make up of a human/jackass experiment.

headrott

TheHammer610 wrote: »

LOL. What is the filler? Kitty litter? Nope, there is none.

Some people get into oxide free. Well, copper oxide does not conduct well. If it were in standard wire, then the resistance would be higher and that is measurable.

Sorry, the only difference between wire is resistance, stranded vs. solid, gauge. #16 stranded gauge is fine unless your speaker wires are exceptionally long.

And don't forget about all that wire inside the speaker (the speaker coil). And the crossover...

OK, don't believe me? Then try a double-blind test yourself. But it has to be blind, or your expectations will influence what you "hear". In every test ever done with speaker wire, when the tester did not know what was being tested, the listener could not find the difference. ABX would be better, but that requires special equipment.

OK, I know I will never convince you, but I feel better.

http://consumerist.com/2008/03/03/do-coat-hangers-sound-as-good-monster-cables/

http://home.provide.net/~djcarlst/abx_wire.htm

http://www.head-fi.org/t/486598/testing-audiophile-claims-and-myths

Let me post a page of my own and please read and understand everything that Darqueknight posted. Thank you and I look forward to your responses after doing some learning and understanding.

http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/show...-Blind-Testing

Habanero Monk

F1nut wrote: »

That's an outright lie and just goes to show that you don't know what you're talking about.

So, what cables have you actually tried in your rig?

There are cables that sound different. They also measure differently. Whether that difference is preferred is another question.

It's the same for any other component: Make it different then market that difference.

I wonder what's going to happen when the wireless standards congeal and you no longer have to worry about L/C/R and gauge in some installations.

Jhayman

Then it will be all about the quality of the wi/fi signal and receiver..

Habanero Monk wrote: »

There are cables that sound different. They also measure differently. Whether that difference is preferred is another question.

It's the same for any other component: Make it different then market that difference.

I wonder what's going to happen when the wireless standards congeal and you no longer have to worry about L/C/R and gauge in some installations.

theshawn

So has anyone ever tried this stuff as speaker wire?

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002MBZVFE/ref=oh_details_o01_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I just ordered some for the hell of it to try out and see if I notice any diff over 16 gauge I'm using now. I'll be cutting it in half so it'll only be 9 foot runs to my fronts. I'll probably notice a difference just because I want to. lol

BlueFox

You can get equal, or better, 12 gauge at the hardware store.

I had a mixture of cheapo 14 and 16 gauge wire in my my HT, and I decided to clean it up. I bought 100 feet of stranded, twisted copper 12 gauge at Home Depot and spent a Saturday afternoon cutting exact lengths to each speaker, and I upgraded the speaker (LSi15s) jumpers with it. Turned it on and let it warm up. That night when I watched a movie I knew it sounded better. That was the point where I started to realize maybe speaker wire does make a difference.

Now I am a complete convert to speaker wire, inter-connects, and power cords. I cannot say it enough. Better cables, and power, make better music. Assuming you aren't deaf.

theshawn

Better at the hardware store? How come? I mean I know Monster is over rated but didn't think it was THAT over rated. lol

AjsCrown

Dang! Sounds like someone's trying to use data transmission specs from a T1 line! Bridgetap?? Really!!
How many KF are we talking? How far from the source,or load for that matter??
Alot of those fancy words dont apply to audio cable!
If i had to guess,the most critical thing would be connections,and surface area of the connection.
Just my 2 cents.

Speedskater

theshawn wrote: »

Better at the hardware store? How come? I mean I know Monster is over rated but didn't think it was THAT over rated. lol

Better, in that the hardware store doesn't make claims like:

Extra low noise construction
Patented Magnetic Flux
High Quality
Breaks up internal electromagnetic fields

Better in that the hardware store price's it as a commodity not as a magic device.

Nothing wrong with M***** if the price is right, but nothing special either.

theshawn

OK so how much would 18' of 12 gauge cost at the hardware store? For $9 I'll take the chance that a company more geared towards audio cables just might have a technology in their wires that exceeds plain jacketed copper. This thread spoke about internal wire issues, does this magnetic flux do absolutely nothing and is 100% marketing bs? I get their marketing bs and for the most part think they are over rated and way to expensive for what you get. You and others here are more knowledgeable than myself so I have no problem being educated (or re-educated as the case may be lol). If this "magnetic flux" crap is truly just marketing bs and has no actual audio value then I want to know.

I think what I'd like to ask is....is this Monster 12 gauge for car subwoofers any better than 16 gauge home speaker wire? Because of marketing bs I'm thinking their home speaker cable as mass marketed at Best Buy, etc. is no better, and if you purchased 12 gauge "home speaker" wire there you'd pay a lot more per foot than 0.50 imo. BECAUSE of marketing bs, the wire marketed for home speakers in the home audio section is of the same quality as the stuff in car audio but they can't get the same markup in car audio?

tonyb

Yes and no my friend, certainly marketing B.S. exists in the cable industry but shouldn't define the industry as a whole. Same with other audio products. Thing is to get YOUR ears on as much as possible to see which brands float your boat and then give them a whirl in your system. It's not rocket science, but does take some trial and error.

ZLTFUL

Shawn,

My recommendation for a quality speaker cable that you literally can't go wrong with is the Audioquest Flex series CL rated wire.
Audio Etc. in Centerville *should* sell it in bulk. Just buy 18ft of their 14/2.
Either that or the whatever bulk CL rated cable Hanson in Dayton sells.

Heck...isn't Parts Express in Springboro? Just pick up some Dayton Audio CL rated cable from them...

F1nut

As long as you're sticking with that kind of standard generic stranded copper cable, they're all going to sound pretty much the same.

WLDock

Speedskater wrote: »

Better, in that the hardware store doesn't make claims like:
Extra low noise construction
Patented Magnetic Flux
High Quality
Breaks up internal electromagnetic fields
Better in that the hardware store price's it as a commodity not as a magic device.
Nothing wrong with M***** if the price is right, but nothing special either.

Sounds like an issue with Monster as a company or their advertising etc...? They all claim something about the quality of their wire...some more than others.

Nevertheless, I disagree about their basic or XLN wire products. If I can get it at cheap Amazon prices I would take it anyday over the off the roll Home Depot stuff. I've used their wire for ages in the home and in the car and the wire is true 12 AGW, is well marked for polarity, has a durable yet flexible jacket, is easy to work with, and sounds fine. Also, the wire holds up over time....even in the car...it does not corrode as fast and turn green like the cheap off the roll stuff.


Anyway, that Monster wire is a good deal at about $0.45/ft. shipped for 12 AWG. The basic Gepco pro A/V wire that I plan to use to rewire my HT system is about $1.05/ft: who knows...I might end up using the cheaper Beldon.

Anything more in terms of wire ...and now one must consider the crossovers and all internal wire feeding the speakers.