Wire in general/some tips.

mantis

Iv'e been reading alot of questions about wire.So I figured I'd make a general comment of my opnion about wire and why.

When thinking of wire for your system,I think having some kind of system is a good place to start.Alot of people including myself,wonder what wire is right for my system.

I have talked to alot of people about this,tested alot of wire myself and here's where I stand on this matter.......but could change tomarrow if better knowledge is found.......
20% of the total cost of your entire system should be a good place to start.It will get you into a level of cables that should complement your system.I was given that number by 2 different wire companies,and it seems to put the given built system right at a level that seems to work.
Now this isn't a fact,it's just what I have found.Try it if you like.

Alot of people don't want to invest alot of money in cables,or don't have the money 2 do so.But if you construct a system that screams with performance abilities,I believe all system levels deserve good wires at there respected class,wouldn't you want to take advantage of everything it has to offer?

There are alot of wire companies out there.Alot I haven't tested myself and would like 2.

TroyD

I bet even the DQ-10's can be better than they already are if you put MIT or Transparent or hell even Monster than you will be real dumb and maybe they can take out Krell LAT-1's or even the Dynaudio Evidence Temptations but you won't know until you try

Huh?

My thoughts are this:

I do think wire makes a difference. However, the difference in inexpensive wire is somewhere between subtle and non-existent.

Who says that 20 percent on wire is appropriate? The wire companies, that's who. Why? because it puts more money in their pocket. I'm not saying it is or isn't appropriate, but I'd take anything a salesman says with a grain of salt.

As far as the DQ's go, I've never said they are the best or that my rig couldn't be better. Why don't we just let that one go. If/when I want or need advice on what or how to improve it, you can be sure that I will ask. I'm touched at the concern though

BDT

PETERNG

I took me a longtime, I mean a very longtime before I finally upgrade all of my wirings for my system (speaker cable, bi-wire, inter-connect) and also add on the filtering-system(plus surge protector) to block out all the interfering noises. I would say that it work well for me with all the money that I invested in this project. Sound was clear like crystal, more dynamic, picture is clear and beautiful. I can hear some of the sound in the same sound track that I haven't hear before (I can run a vaccum cleaner right on front of my TV and not thing will affect the picture). To me all of these things carry about 30% weight of my system and I happy with the changes that I made. I'm not sure it will work for everyone plus how serious you are when you're thinking about making improvement for your system when there are no certain facts but costs involve. When it comes to wiring issues or subjects, I don't think this forum can offer anymore tips than what we already had in our collection library. If Micah is kind enough to move all of the biring threads (posts) in to one folder (category), it may be helpful for those folks who seeking for these information. Here are the lists of my up-grade wiring:

Monster cable M series, F1 and F3 speakers cable
Monster cable M-video cable(component and S-video)
Monster cable reference 2 audio-inter-connect
Monster cable coax and optical digital cable
Monster cable for antenna connection
Monster cable HTS-5000 and HTS 1000

I plan to order the new HTS 7000 for the living room this christmas (since I can get it for 60% off), move the HTS 5000 into the bedroom and the HTS1000 over the breakfast area. I can tell you this, the HTS device works wonderful and very effective. After I do this, the bucks stop right here.

mantis

Who says that 20 percent on wire is appropriate? The wire companies, that's who. Why? because it puts more money in their pocket. I'm not saying it is or isn't appropriate, but I'd take anything a salesman says with a grain of salt.

Yes the wire companies did come up with that for a level of system to wire level ratio.It works most of the time, but you need to be the final word in what goes into your sytem.

Troy,
why don't you add your thoughts on how and why to buy WHAT wire?I didn't read anything in your post that seems usefull.
I'm not in no way the be all end all of wire,I ask the questions to get some feedback,to help me understand this entire maddness alittle better.No need to insults salespeople in the process.I'm not one of them but hell they need to make a living like the rest of us.

So I ask you personally..........what wire do you own and why?

PETERNG

Originally posted by mantis


Yes the wire companies did come up with that for a level of system to wire level ratio.It works most of the time, but you need to be the final word in what goes into your sytem.

You paid for what you got, just make sure you're beware of what you're paying for, find down and read the facts about why you have to pay more for that product and is that worth it to pay more?, the final word is: there is no free lunch. I like what he said here...:)

TroyD

Dan,

I'm not knocking your theory and if it works for you fine. I'm just saying, 20 percent is an arbitrary number and it's a gross oversimplification. That's my opinion, however.

As for what I own, I have Monster XP, AR, Home Depot, Rat shack, cheap AudioQuest and Straightwire. The differences between them all are fairly subtle. I'm not saying they are all the same, but they differences are subtle.

I do have a question, though, how long do folks find it takes for wire to oxidize? Reason I ask is, I've yet to see it. I was hanging Christmas lights yestereday and for fun, I checked the bare wire running into my outdoor speakers, I've had them up there for 3 years and still no oxidation.

BDT

mantis

TroyD,
your opnion is noted.As for as the wire goes(home Depot)I got some off a job that had 12 x 2.I tested it against my M1.4s bi wires and the result was that the home depot wire sounded sick.I have that wire sitting on my back porch and guess what?It's already starting to turn green.Oxidation happens quick with Home Depot wire.I also did a job where a electrican ran home depot wire 18 x 2 for multiroom speakers and all of it was green.

Monstercable wire along with alot of other brands do a better job keeping oxidation out.Terminating the ends of your wire also helps.Bare wire is the worse way,outdoor wires..are getting it the worse.I lkike to terminate outdoor wires and shrink wrap whenever possible.

Dr. Spec

"However, the difference in inexpensive wire is somewhere between subtle and non-existent."

TroyD - the ultimate reality check on Club Polk - thank you, God. This opinion (for speaker wire only, not interconnects) has been substantiated many times with double blind tests. I can find probably 5 articles on the subject - all with the same results. Even the most discriminating listeners were astonished to discover that they cannot tell the difference between even lamp cord and the most expensive speaker wire out there - all on very high end gear. Some of them even preferred the lamp cord over the upscale stuff. The subject has been talked to DEATH over at HTF.

Re: oxidation - Mantis has a point; I use those cool Monster screw-together banana plugs on all my speaker wire terminations to help prevent oxidation. I think this is better than a bare wire termination.

Doc

TroyD

I was curious about the oxidation, my outdoor speaks are wired using Home Depot wire with just bare wire connenctions and I was amazed really that it hadn't oxidized.

BDT

HBombToo

I agree with Troy and Doc on this matter. As long as the run is not to long for the guage the sonic deltas are not very audible.

Connections and the prevention of oxidation are important and should always be considered. A bad connection will have a resistace associated with it and should be minimized.

As far as digital interconnects are concerned, there are impedance concerns and the right cable for the job should be observed but that does not cost a thousand dollars.

Just my thoughts...

HBomb

MxStYlEpOlKmAn

ight...if i got dis right -- oxidation is when the wire turns green! SO THATS Y THE TIPS OF MY WIRES ARE EFFIN GREEN! OHHHHHH!!! lol! ok! Well, im going to sovle that, Im gonna get 12 guage HD wire, but gold plated pin connectors on each end...and just laugh at it all! lol! or I might get monster cable! but i highly doubt it...but atleast I learned one thing! I now know what oxidation is...LOL!

gidrah

My Monster Cable Superflex has turned a lovely shade of green. Right in the middle. Time to chop it up and use to re-wire some woofers.

PETERNG

Originally posted by gidrah
My Monster Cable Superflex has turned a lovely shade of green. Right in the middle. Time to chop it up and use to re-wire some woofers.

No need my friend, MC has the lifetime guarrantee on their speaker cable products, check their website and find down how you can send it back for replacement free of charge.

MxStYlEpOlKmAn

well heres what I think - Would I pay 100 dollars for 50 feet of monster 16 guage, and get little change when I can pay 9 bucks for HD wire with very little difference?

MxStYlEpOlKmAn

yeah, when i was looking for a ht system...I asked my dad that has 10 guage monster cable on his system, i asked him the difference. He said there is a difference, but you cant hear it. I'm like then heck ill just get the HD!

MxStYlEpOlKmAn

well of course, maybe Bill Gates will lend me some mooooo la! LOL! Until then, HD it is!

RuSsMaN

It's called an 'opinion' Mark, learn to accept that other peoples (opinions) may differ from yours.

I like what I consider high-end wire. $200 a pair and DOWN, just to throw out a number. Speaking of speaker wire only here, I think if one did hear a difference in most rigs, it would probably be subtle.

Yes, quite a few us here have done wire 'shootouts' as you call it, and I like and own some higher end cables, but I've also been hard pressed to hear a difference in some scenarios. Different amps, different preamps, different sources, different master recordings, rooms, etc etc. The variables are near infinate, as to why someone may, or may not hear a 'difference' between any two given cables.

The issue I have is for someone to tell me what makes one basic, OFC insulated cable different from another. I'll take your (anyone, not pointing my finger) word for it sure, but whats the science behind it? Why does it sound better? We are dealing with very low voltage, which one could see as easy to accommodate (requiring minimal expenditure), or one could say should be handled with extra care (requiring a greater expenditure).

Now what you and I consider 'high end' I'm sure differs. As far as I'm concerned, their isn't a home rig in the world that NEEDS $2500 speaker cables.
(imo)

Cheers,
Russ

mantis

Russ,

Now what you and I consider 'high end' I'm sure differs. As far as I'm concerned, their isn't a home rig in the world that NEEDS $2500 speaker cables.

OK I get what your saying but I have a question.
If I owned Krell Master Reference mono amps
Dynaudio Evidence Masters
Krell Reference cd palyer

What would you consider 2 use?

Frank Z

Wire is as Wire does! As long the resistance is low enough to allow the siganl to pass without degrading it, that is all that is needed. No more, no less. Any wire that meets this criteria is adequate, as long as it does not degrade as a result of impurities or environmental conditions. If paying a huge amount of money to get a warm and fuzzy feeling all over is "your thing," fine! If you know any thing at all about basic electricity you will quickly discover that High-end cables/wires area a high end rip-off, no more, no less!

Feel free to disagree.

RuSsMaN

Heck, start with MIT Term 2, Kimber 8TC, Audioquest Bedrock and maybe work up to Audioquest Gibraltar, Cardas Cross, Straightwire Rhapsody if you want to spend *more* money.

There's all kinds of names I could throw out, but for me it goes back to the theory of diminishing returns.

Of course, some 0 awg car audio power cable at a couple bucks a foot might fit just right.

Cheers,
Russ

RuSsMaN

Hey numbnuts (since we have regressed back to name calling AGAIN), he mentioned his Mintek, and a AMC CD6 (a nice player). More importantly, he mentioned his OPINION.

Why should we acknowledge your opinion? You have shown yourself as self-proclaimed expert, and won't discuss ANYTHING in a civil tone.

Please cut the 'holier than thou ****' out. It certainly does not help to validate YOUR opinion. Please tell me you aren't making public threats too, are you?

-R

phuz

Lets not get into this again. liv4fam ATC didn't go there, you didn't have to.

Take a chill pill, or drink a glass of wine or something. Don't start this kindergarten crap again please.

Frank Z

HMMM......Philly......The City of Brotherly Love......NOT!!

MxStYlEpOlKmAn

LoL! Yall guys remind me of My 3 and 4 year old cousins! LOL! Heres what I think, and I think some of you guys need a reality check! LIFE IS NOT AUDIO! LIFE IS NOT POSESSIONS OR GIFTS! LIFE HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH IT! Y IN JESUS NAME CANT U JUST ACCEPT SOMEONE ELSE'S EARS AND OPINION? I MEAN PEOPLE CANT JUST GO OUT AND SPEND 1k on speaker wire! IT JUST AINT GONNA HAPPEN! IF ALL THEY CAN AFFORD IS HD or some other cheap stuff! THEN SOOOOOO BE IT! WHY DO U CARE? YOU DONT HAVE TO HEAR IT EVERYDAY! ITS NOT YOUR LIFE! I understand it is your job to install audio and stuff, wiring and stuff, make a recomendation - DONT SHOVE IT DOWN PEOPLES THROATS! ight i said what I thought, now let the blood shattering begin...ill get the bell and whistle!

MxStYlEpOlKmAn

I truly dont care if I was 4 years old. It is rediculous to keep reading this, Heck i like reading/posting here. But this gets pretty stupid after a while.

liv4fam

I agree this is pretty childish.

Geeeeeessssshhhh.......Let it go it's only wire.


Can't anybody have an opinion.

RuSsMaN

Now the post makes NO sense.

liv4fam

Man I had Arby's for lunch and I think I am gonna hurl.

They need to go out of business.

Mantis I think tommorrow we are doing HOOTERS.:)

liv4fam

What makes no sense?;)

mantis

Hooters?????????all **** day..yeah that Arbys wasn;t up to speed...

mantis

Damn I leave for awhile and all this maddness goes on.Can't we all just talk about our feelings on wire?I feel my wires all the time.And they feel me.