Wire in general/some tips.

gidrah · December 2002

Thanks Pete. I'll have to look into that.

Tour2ma · January 2003

How about we get the Webmaster to set a Room Acoustics Forum category in the Advanced Technical Issues area? Vibration isolation is another point RLW raises that is often overlooked.

Had I not waded through all the Bickersons and Stoner posts I never would have gotten to this interesting stuff especially in a thread that starts off debating the benefits of wire (before it passes through the raging Arbys vs. Hooters controversy) Actually had some thoughts on wire that I posted and deleted three times because I thought I was somehow jumping to the wrong thread when I posted them It was really clever, but think Ill just sit on it now and instead offer the following in-a-nutshell reply:

I think, as Frank mentioned early on, resistance is the key and this is supported by RLWs experience with his phono connects after all we are talking milli-volts here. As you move down the system chain and signal power increases, the result will be less dramatic. All the way to Dr. Specs double-blind test references, which he qualifies as applying only to speaker cables the high voltage end of the line.

Personally I have one pair of Tara Labs between my B&K AVP (not a Ref 50..yet) and my Carver M1.5t and want to believe I heard a difference after spending over $150 on them. But I also use 12 gauge lamp cord (yes, I got the spool at Home Depot) for my bi-wire run from my Carver to my SDA SRSs, which are in separate rooms from all my equipment to minimize, if not eliminate, the vibration issues. The trade-off is a 30+ wire run. Maybe I should quad-wire.

One other tid-bit before I wrap up is on the oxidation issue touched upon in the thread. This is critical at the connectors, but not on the surface of mid-wire runs (as someone alluded to in their Monster cables). Electrons run through the center of wire, not on the surface, and oxidation penetration of formed wire is minimal. Most ultra-low O2 wire manufactured is drawn and quenched in an inerted atmosphere (CO2 or N2, argon if theyre really fancy), but O2 exposed quenching only results in surface ox. To battle ox I trim the ends off of my speaker runs every few months (emotionally easier to do with lamp cord than high-end wire) when I go through my connections and twist/ break-make them to clean them up.

My general philosophy is similar to others in this thread, spend on equipment first and wire down the line. But other than heavy drapes over windows, Ive not given enough attention to room acoustics.

Which brings me back to where I started

Sorry if I am not senior enough yet to POLK some fun at some of the vets...

infinitiqx4 · January 2003

UP TO THE TOP! rlw=awesome posts

This thread should stay at the top forever. Any and all wiring posts from newbies should be required to read this. First some bickering. Then, some Hooters. Then some perspective on importance.

If I spent $5k on a setup I wouldn't dream of spending $1k on wires! 20%? That's just nuts for most of our "mid-fi" setups*. I'd rather spend $4k on components and put the rest towards INSTALL. No, I don't mean paying some idiots to wire it up and leave. I mean doing room acoustics, tuning, etc.

*I seem to remember reading "mid-fi" during this long thread. Interesting term. Puts things in perspective with the REALLY crazy systems. But I still feel that "hi-fi" is appropriate for a system costing a few K if done right.

I've always felt that the oxidation part is important for those of us not spending 20%. There is a difference between really cheap speaker wire and decent oxygen-free speaker wire with thick gauge.

Whoever commented on speaker wire usually being less important than RCA/interconnects- right on! Good shielded interconnects can reduce noise where there is a problem. Of course the cheapest (and best) way to improve the sound is to install the system correctly in the first place avoiding noise sources. I'm sure you guys have seen systems here with horribly expensive wires where the interconnects are neatly wired parallel with AC power wire! WOW. again, w o w.

nellis8166 · January 2003

Well, here is my take on the whole wire issue. In my case it made a huge difference. I recently added an Adcom GFA7400 to run my mains and center. I tried to get away with using Home Depot wire and Ratshack interconnects....one word....horrible....sounded like $hit. I went to my local hi-fi store and had him make me some cables. Now I have Monster M Series Bi-wire replacing the home depot wire. Also invested in Monster interconnects, can't remember the model, but they were 50 bucks and supposedly the best bang for your buck. I took my time yesterday and wired everything up right. My mains are bi-amped and the center is on the 5th channed bi-wired.
The difference is astounding....I was speechless when I tested everything last night. I listened to Dark Side of the Moon. The clarity and imaging are much improved as well as bass response. No comparison what so ever.
Should have done it right the first time. I keep telling myself that cutting corners will only result in more work in the end. Should have done it right the first time. I'll learn.

Regards,
Nat

System Specs.
Mains- LSI9's
Center- LSIC
Surrounds-RTi28 x 4
Adcom GFA 7400 for mains and center
HK AVR 525 for surrounds.
Dvd-JVC
SACD/CD-Sony
Sony 36' Wega Flat
Monster cables and interconnects.

infinitiqx4 · January 2003

Originally posted by nellis8166
Home Depot wire and Ratshack interconnects....one word....horrible....sounded like $hit. I went to my local hi-fi store and had him make me some cables.

The general "don't give in to dumb hype" call doesn't say go use the cheapest Home Depot/Ratshack available. You spend $50 on your new interconnect instead of $20- and its better quality. There is a difference in things that are shielded, twisted, and oxygen free over junk. You also probably got bigger gauge and went bi-wire so there should be a difference cause its lower resistance. That's not the complaint here. If you buy junk it can HURT your sound. If you buy quality it will NOT AFFECT the sound (ie your basic cut speaker wire from a hi-fi store). But spending thousands of dollars on wire will not IMPROVE the sound quality. The issue is spending $300 or more on each cable when there is essentially no perceivable difference over your new $50 cables. You've got a very nice system that cost tons (LSi, HK, Adcom, etc). Did you spend 20%? No way.

nellis8166 · January 2003

not really sure what your point is Ifinitiqx4. i guess my point is that bought the best that my budget would allow and it is worlds apart from where i was before. i am very happy with the system. did i spend 20% on cables...no. would i ever spend that much on cables no matter what the system??? unless i win the lottery, no.
would i notice a difference in the wires and cables i have now??? not having a professional ear for this type of this i highly doubt it.

regards,
nat

Frank Z · January 2003

Originally posted by nellis8166
i guess my point is that bought the best that my budget would allow and it is worlds apart from where i was before. i am very happy with the system.

That's the best thing I've read for a long time. It doesn't matter what it cost, or what others think(myself included),Your Gear, Your Money, Your Satisfaction! That's what it is all about!!

nellis8166 · January 2003

amen Frank Z, i think so as well

Wire in general/some tips.

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