Oh my, something magical has happened to my SDA's
Comments
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Very nice!
My stock studio 2b's are sounding so good I'm afraid to mod them. I guess I need to get aaron or dave or anyone that has heard these mods over here to get their opinion. -
The last thought that went through my head before I started taking my speakers apart was, "Why am I doing this? These things sound so good the way they are." Let's put it this way - I have no regrets.Good music, a good source, and good power can make SDA's sing. Tubes make them dance.
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Does anyone know how i can make my monitor 8t's any better?
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Does anyone know how i can make my monitor 8t's any better?
Sonic cap x-over parts, Mills resistors, RD0194-1 silk dome tweeters. Plan on spending about $200 total for the entire project. Silk domes are $102 shipped just alone.
H9"Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul! -
On a side note....
I'm at about 50 hours now. These speakers ought to be illegal. I just can't believe how good they sound. Just listened to Tull - Locomotive Breath off the Mobilie Fidelity remaster of Living in the Past. It almost lifted me out of my seat.
It's all in your head.Proud and loyal citizen of the Digital Domain and Solid State Country! -
Due to a lack of experience with a soldering iron I hesitate to do the mod done here(although it is tempting, or perhaps to have somebody local do the work for me). The step by step process is good info that I might pass onto somebody and pay then the labor rate but if I did not want to do this would the upgrade to silk dome tweeters be worthwhile on my 2B's? I have always considered them a bit harsh at higher volume.Yep, my name really is Bob.
Parasound HCA1500A(indoor sound) and HCA1000(outdoor sound), Dynaco PAS4, Denon DP1200 w/Shure V15 Type V and Jico SAS stylus, Marantz UD7007, Polk L600, Rythmik L12 sub. -
Due to a lack of experience with a soldering iron I hesitate to do the mod done here(although it is tempting, or perhaps to have somebody local do the work for me). The step by step process is good info that I might pass onto somebody and pay then the labor rate but if I did not want to do this would the upgrade to silk dome tweeters be worthwhile on my 2B's? I have always considered them a bit harsh at higher volume.
if your 2B's have the SL2000 tweeter.. which they prob do.. they are harsh sounding to a lot of people. you are not alone in the world of SL2000 harshnessPolkFest 2012, who's going>?
Vancouver, Canada Sept 30th, 2012 - Madonna concert :cheesygrin: -
You can buy shrink tube in various sizes at home depot. I have used this on custom cables I have made.My journey: http://www.1414audio.com/
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I did upgrade my SL2000's to the RD0194-1 prior to doing this recent upgrade. The 194 upgrade couldn't be easier - order the new ones from Polk, unscrew the old ones, unhook the disconnects, connect them to the new tweeter, and screw them in. Only tool required is a screwdriver.
There was definitely a big improvement over the old tweeters, so if you're not up for doing the surgery that I recently did, then I would advise you to at least do that upgarde.Good music, a good source, and good power can make SDA's sing. Tubes make them dance. -
davidfmartin wrote: »You can buy shrink tube in various sizes at home depot. I have used this on custom cables I have made.
Yes....."Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul! -
I did upgrade my SL2000's to the RD0194-1 prior to doing this recent upgrade. The 194 upgrade couldn't be easier - order the new ones from Polk, unscrew the old ones, unhook the disconnects, connect them to the new tweeter, and screw them in. Only tool required is a screwdriver.
There was definitely a big improvement over the old tweeters, so if you're not up for doing the surgery that I recently did, then I would advise you to at least do that upgarde.
That's what I wanted to hear! I did replace one of the tweeters about 10 yrs ago but I'm fairly sure they were still the SL2000 type. Thanx!Yep, my name really is Bob.
Parasound HCA1500A(indoor sound) and HCA1000(outdoor sound), Dynaco PAS4, Denon DP1200 w/Shure V15 Type V and Jico SAS stylus, Marantz UD7007, Polk L600, Rythmik L12 sub. -
I replaced my tweeters with RDO 194's.H9,
I really didnt expect this kind of response from you or anyone here. When you state that my opinions have no validity, who the heck are you to decide that? You know nothing of my engineering, electronic, scientific, or audio experience and background. I was hoping for an adult response by someone who could share some useful opinions and data regarding my questions.
If you re-read my post, you will see that I ask two specific questions: I just have to ask how a burn-in will improve the bass sound characteristics of this speaker when all that changed was the inductor that rolls off the highs to the mid woofers.
AND
Maybe the bass sounds better because it's now a better fit, more in balance, with the quality and tone of the new tweeters?
I also stated some facts: An inductor is a coil of wire. It's very electrically stable. If the sound improved, then it must have changed electrically and if that's the case it could have changed for the worse as well. Rarely in electronics do passive components change at all, or change for the better with age or use.
You stated You can certainly continue to doubt but unless you given it a try then you really have no basis to acknowledge that the results aren't true. I did not question the positive result of this upgrade, only the mechanism at work during a burn-in that would remedy extremely thin bass.
Now Im going to state some opinions. The inductor change that reduced the original low pass inductors resistance value from 3.2 Ohms to the new inductors value of 0.5 Ohms should have a big impact on the current reaching the MW. Picking 20 Hz as an example frequency, the inductive reactance of the old and the new 15mH inductors are both equal at 1.9 Ohms. Adding the DC resistance (3.2 Ohm) to the inductive reactance (1.9 Ohm) the calculated total impedance at 20Hz is 5.1 Ohms. The new inductor at the same frequency has a much lower 2.4 Ohm total impedance. The lower impedance of the new inductor will potentially allow more current to flow through the rest of the low pass filter circuit into the MW. Of course, any potential current increase depends on the impedance values of the other components in the low pass circuit, the circuits resonant frequency, and the true impedance of the MW voice coil. The inductors lower impedance should produce stronger bass without altering the crossover point and that seems completely opposite to what nspindle describes as hearing extremely thin bass.
If you have an explanation as to why the bass was described as thin, but after 2-3 hours of burn-in, The bass is phenominal. I'm finding that lower-volume listening is much more rewarding. Cranking it up is hugely fun, but I can still hear (and feel) some great bass at lower volume. The "punchiness" is much improved, and there's a lot more reality to the music., you could chime in now.
That brings me back to my second question: Maybe the bass sounds better because it's now a better fit, more in balance, with the quality and tone of the new tweeters?
And now the last questions which are actually a refinement and expansion of my second question: Does anyone agree that since the new tweeters are electromechanical dynamic devices, their tonal quality could have altered in a beneficial way by virtue of several hours of operation (voice coil and diaphragm excursion) and become less as described the highs were quite tinny? If so, is it then plausible that the bass is perceived as better after several hours of operation and the highs more pleasing, contributing to the overall sonic improvement in terms of lows and highs people are describing with this upgrade?
I we all can't share ideas, theories, and opinions here equally, what's the point?
I have mixed feelings.
The RDO 194 I think is a better overall tweeter, but it seems to trade one problem for another.
The old tweeters are well known for a peak up high, but are silky smooth in their lower range.
I think the RDO's are smoother and more extended, and faster.
However, they seem a little too efficient in their lower range, giving a glare on some female voices.
I think some crossover messing around may be in order here ?
As far as tweeters go, perhaps we should take a tip from our brothers on the Klipasch forum ?
They do not wait on Klipsch to supply them replacement parts.
They engineer replacement crossovers and have drivers MADE.
The RDO 104 is a good tweeter, but there are better ones.
The old 14 dollar Vifa aluminum dome comes to mind, as do several inexpensive others.
Plates for any tweeter can be made, and crossover kits can be engineered.
You might be well advised to wait in my opinion before buying RDO 194's.
Just for kicks, I put my old tweeters back in, to compare.
Overall, I prefer the RDO 194, but not always.
I hear crossover problems when the RDO 194 is used.
Perhaps Polk may wish to re test a FULLY broken in RDO 194, and listen and measure again ?
Maybe a slight crossovver tweak will fix what I am hearing ? -
I thought a XO mod was required to run the 194's. Adding a 5.8 mfd cap or something.'65 427 Shelby Cobra
'72 Triumph TR-6
__________________
'88 Polk SDA SRS 1.2, with upgraded XO caps and Erse SDA inductors
'86 Polk SDA CRS+
'84 Polk Monitor 10A (Peerless tweeters)
'05 HSU VTF-3 Sub (Original OEM)
'20 HSU VTF-3 Sub (three more, 100% cloned)
'93 Carver TFM-35
'88 Carver M-1.0t
'88 Adcom GFT-555
'88 Adcom GFP-555
'88 Adcom GFA-555 (upgraded/restored)
'88 Adcom GFA-555 (a second one upgraded/restored)
'05 Onkyo DV-555 media
'89 Fosgate 360 Digital Space Matrix
'89 Fosgate 360 Digital Space Matrix, internal surround amp bridged to drive only a center channel
'91 Kenwood Basic M1D Amp
'89 Pioneer Laser Disc media
'89 Sony SuperBeta HiFi media
One PGA2310 based custom built remote volume control
Four Polk T-15's
Four Polk TSi-200's
Four Polk TSi-100's
Two Polk CS-10's -
"Drop in" replacements for SL 2000's in the SRS speakers.I thought a XO mod was required to run the 194's. Adding a 5.8 mfd cap or something.
I think the cap mod is for using the RDO 198 ?
Yes, they work, the RDO 194's do, but there is room for improvement. -
Perhaps Polk may wish to re test a FULLY broken in RDO 194, and listen and measure again ?
That's a hoot.Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
Perhaps Polk may wish to re test a FULLY broken in RDO 194, and listen and measure again ?
Maybe a slight crossovver tweak will fix what I am hearing ?
FYI, Polk's engineering dept did extensive tests and sent manufacturer's very detailed and specific guidelines about sourcing a replacement tweeter. This wasn't an "off the shelf" replacement. Several manufacturer's made and sent in prototypes that Polk tested, retested, & suggested tweaks, etc., and then picked the one that fit their expectations and design parameters.
You are certainly entitled to your opinion but unless you have also updated your 20 year old caps in the x-over you may not be getting all you can get from the RD0's.
In the end some do actually prefer the sl2000, nothing wrong with that. The RD0 was designed to specifically address some of the short comings of the sl2000 plus other specifications. Have you ever heard the sl3000?
OldmanSRS, no modification nec. to use the RD0's they are plug-n-play it's just highly recommended to refresh the X-overs to get the maximum benefit. Todays caps are much better overall than the 20 year old one's were when new and by now many of the caps are probably way out of tolerance and at the end of their life cycle.
If you go this route you will be amazed at the improvement.
H9"Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul! -
I replaced my tweeters with RDO 194's.
I have mixed feelings.
The RDO 194 I think is a better overall tweeter, but it seems to trade one problem for another.
The old tweeters are well known for a peak up high, but are silky smooth in their lower range.
I think the RDO's are smoother and more extended, and faster.
However, they seem a little too efficient in their lower range, giving a glare on some female voices.
I think some crossover messing around may be in order here ?
As far as tweeters go, perhaps we should take a tip from our brothers on the Klipasch forum ?
They do not wait on Klipsch to supply them replacement parts.
They engineer replacement crossovers and have drivers MADE.
The RDO 104 is a good tweeter, but there are better ones.
The old 14 dollar Vifa aluminum dome comes to mind, as do several inexpensive others.
Plates for any tweeter can be made, and crossover kits can be engineered.
You might be well advised to wait in my opinion before buying RDO 194's.
Just for kicks, I put my old tweeters back in, to compare.
Overall, I prefer the RDO 194, but not always.
I hear crossover problems when the RDO 194 is used.
Perhaps Polk may wish to re test a FULLY broken in RDO 194, and listen and measure again ?
Maybe a slight crossovver tweak will fix what I am hearing ?
By all means go for it!!! The 2nd coming of Matthew Polk. SDA's are a very complex beast and don't lend themselves well to tweaking beyond upgrading parts. Please, enlighten us and show us how it's done. I mean SDA's are just like the common Klipsch, Try an inexpensive metal tweeter, re-engineer the X-over, fix the X-over problems you hear with the RD0's.
We are all listening
H9"Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul! -
My spider sense is tingling again.Proud and loyal citizen of the Digital Domain and Solid State Country!
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I thought I smelled roofing tar.Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
Gotta Love Ian Anderson !!!On a side note....
I'm at about 50 hours now. These speakers ought to be illegal. I just can't believe how good they sound. Just listened to Tull - Locomotive Breath off the Mobilie Fidelity remaster of Living in the Past. It almost lifted me out of my seat.
How do they sound on Black Sabbath and Deep Purple ? -
Price is not always an indicator of performance when it comes to tweeters.By all means go for it!!! The 2nd coming of Matthew Polk. SDA's are a very complex beast and don't lend themselves well to tweaking beyond upgrading parts. Please, enlighten us and show us how it's done. I mean SDA's are just like the common Klipsch, Try an inexpensive metal tweeter, re-engineer the X-over, fix the X-over problems you hear with the RD0's.
We are all listening
H9
On the Klipsch forum, people like Bob Crites and Al Klappenberger have had parts custom made for them.
They sell these parts in an upgrade kit, and also sell replacement crossovers.
I think the RDO 194 is a decent tweeter.
Maybe it would work better with a slight crossover change, maybe not ?
No harm in experimentation. -
No, I have never heard the SL 3000.FYI, Polk's engineering dept did extensive tests and sent manufacturer's very detailed and specific guidelines about sourcing a replacement tweeter. This wasn't an "off the shelf" replacement. Several manufacturer's made and sent in prototypes that Polk tested, retested, & suggested tweaks, etc., and then picked the one that fit their expectations and design parameters.
You are certainly entitled to your opinion but unless you have also updated your 20 year old caps in the x-over you may not be getting all you can get from the RD0's.
In the end some do actually prefer the sl2000, nothing wrong with that. The RD0 was designed to specifically address some of the short comings of the sl2000 plus other specifications. Have you ever heard the sl3000?
H9
I am aware of "the story" of the RDO 194 ......
It is a good one.
A Camshaft Company called Racer Brown led us all to believe they had an "inside track" to Chrysler Corporation's engineering department once.
They sold a LOT of Camshafts to Mopar racers.
IF I was a parts department wanting to sell replacement tweeters, it would be a good thing to tell how the replacements were tested and approved.
And I am sure they were.
But the RDO 194 is NOT the exact same tweeter as the SL 2000, and perhaps some minor crossover optimization might make for even better performance ? -
DarqueKnight wrote: »My spider sense is tingling again.
You probably need to proceed with what your senses are telling you to do and I'll just pull up a seat.
I think there will be standing room only in short time.polkaudio SRS (rdo194 x 8)
Dodd ELP (separate power supply)
JC 1 blocks ( strapped )
Rega Apollo
MIT (speaker cables) Outlaw (ICs)
polkaudio SDA2(rdo194x4) (front) polkaudio CRS (rdo194x4)(rear) polkaudio 400i (center)
B&K 505
Samsung LCD
VIP 622
HSU STF-2 -
This time around I'm hoping to see a degree of tact, courtesy, and decorum that was previously unavailable.
Y'all play nice now.:)Proud and loyal citizen of the Digital Domain and Solid State Country! -
Haha now this should become quite an interesting thread.
DaveOnce again we meet at last. -
Alright I have my bowl of popcorn and beverage ..........carry on
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Wow, I don't check in for a couple of days, and I've missed the whole discussion about turning my Polks into Klipschs!
Fyi, the reason why I haven't been posting much in terms of how the break-in is progressing is that my amp is being repaired. I'd been having intermittent problems with it, and finally I decided to get it fixed, because it was really starting to annoy me. I've got an NAD 2200, and I brought it to these guys to get the repairs done plus do the tweaks that they offer for $155:
http://www.angelfire.com/art2/stereorepair117/NAD.htm
Fortunately I live close enough that I could drive it there. I'm also having them re-wire the internal AC with some nice power cord I got from Sonic Craft, and slap an IEC connector on the back. This way I can connect a decent power cable (probably going to take the advice of lots of folks on here and go with Signal Cable). The wire they built the amp with 20 years ago is just about good enough to run a clock radio...
I put a Harman Kardon amp I have for my multi-room system in its place, and it just aint the same, not even close. So I haven't been doing much listening these days, just eagerly awaiting the return of my improved NAD.
Also ordered a tube buffer to play around with that should be here some time soon. It was so cheap I couldn't resist the urge.
Ok, signing off to go do the Klipsch mod :rolleyes:Good music, a good source, and good power can make SDA's sing. Tubes make them dance. -
Wow, I don't check in for a couple of days, and I've missed the whole discussion about turning my Polks into Klipschs!
Not only that, but you missed some fool getting himself banned in like 17 posts! :rolleyes: -
I'm curious about that one - I went back and looked at the guy's posts. What'd he say that got him banned?Good music, a good source, and good power can make SDA's sing. Tubes make them dance.
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I'm curious about that one - I went back and looked at the guy's posts. What'd he say that got him banned?
I'm wondering the exact same thing, but it's kinda like asking how somebody died - awkward
I too went back and looked at his posts and couldn't find anything ban-worthy (at least in my mind)
