James Randi extends the million dollar challenge
Comments
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Ehhh, I'll split it with you. How 'bout that?~ In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence. ~
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The million is real, it's held by an accountancy firm in the USA and legally has to be paid out if someone wins the challenge. I don't think he is asking too much to prove that something works as it professes to.
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Ehhh, I'll split it with you. How 'bout that?
If I thought you could really do it, I would be more than willing to help for half. But why split with me? It's so easy to tell the difference... -
Because for me, it's not about the money, it's about the point.But why split with me?~ In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence. ~ -
Because for me, it's not about the money, it's about the point.
I know what you mean, who needs another million anyways? Good luck. -
Guys, the paranormal claim is this:
If you can't measure any difference in the cables or that the differences in the cables are well below the threshold of the ability for a human to hear, than one would have to have paranormal abilities to reliably determine the difference between cable's.
I mean, isn't it you pro cable guys that are saying that everything transferred along the cable can't be seen on things such as oscilliscopes and other electronic monitoring equipment? That "non-electrical" signal would have to be paranormal. That's the guys point-You are claiming to be able to do something that logic and science say should be impossible.There is no genuine justice in any scheme of feeding and coddling the loafer whose only ponderable energies are devoted wholly to reproduction. Nine-tenths of the rights he bellows for are really privileges and he does nothing to deserve them. We not only acquired a vast population of morons, we have inculcated all morons, old or young, with the doctrine that the decent and industrious people of the country are bound to support them for all time.-Menkin -
Guys, the paranormal claim is this:
If you can't measure any difference in the cables or that the differences in the cables are well below the threshold of the ability for a human to hear, than one would have to have paranormal abilities to reliably determine the difference between cable's.
I mean, isn't it you pro cable guys that are saying that everything transferred along the cable can't be seen on things such as oscilliscopes and other electronic monitoring equipment? That "non-electrical" signal would have to be paranormal. That's the guys point-You are claiming to be able to do something that logic and science say should be impossible.
I believe a good electrical engineer can measure the impedance, that is the capacitive reactance, inductive reactance and resistance of any two cables and tell them apart in any ABX test with equipment with audio frequencies.
What the electrical engineer will also say is that these impedance differences between these two cables are so small that they are inaudable unless the cable is broken or very poorly designed.
The electrical test equipment is more sensitive than your ear. -
I believe a good electrical engineer can measure the impedance, that is the capacitive reactance, inductive reactance and resistance of any two cables and tell them apart in any ABX test with equipment with audio frequencies.
What the electrical engineer will also say is that these impedance differences between these two cables are so small that they are inaudable unless the cable is broken or very poorly designed.
The electrical test equipment is more sensitive than your ear.
I realize this (Haven't you figured out by now that I was an engineer at one time?) This has been done by numerous people and it certainly doesn't take a EE, a decent Fluke multimeter will do in most cases. I've seen tests on oscilliscopes and feedback tests, primarily on IC's that have shown that the difference between "MOST" cables at "MOST" frequencies are on the order of ~0.00001 dB and I have never seen a result greater than ~0.003 dB at any frequency. How did we test? Test 1:Have the source signal on the display and subtract the source signal after it passed through the cables. Test 2: Have the sam source played through 2 different cables and subtract the signal of one from the other.
I think Polk Maniac did something similar with his computer on music.
Your last paragraph is going to get the pro cable guys all over you... Or at least it did to me when I said the exact same thing years ago.There is no genuine justice in any scheme of feeding and coddling the loafer whose only ponderable energies are devoted wholly to reproduction. Nine-tenths of the rights he bellows for are really privileges and he does nothing to deserve them. We not only acquired a vast population of morons, we have inculcated all morons, old or young, with the doctrine that the decent and industrious people of the country are bound to support them for all time.-Menkin -
And ABX testing supports this contention.I believe a good electrical engineer can measure the impedance, that is the capacitive reactance, inductive reactance and resistance of any two cables and tell them apart in any ABX test with equipment with audio frequencies.
What the electrical engineer will also say is that these impedance differences between these two cables are so small that they are inaudable unless the cable is broken or very poorly designed.
The electrical test equipment is more sensitive than your ear.
Guys like Peter Walker of Quad used outdoor 2 wire 14 gage extension cords at shows like CES.
The old Quad 57 was arguably one of the most revealing speakers ever made.
It might be an eye opening experience for some who think they hear cable differences to test their ability under controlled conditions. -
And ABX testing supports this contention.
Guys like Peter Walker of Quad used outdoor 2 wire 14 gage extension cords at shows like CES.
The old Quad 57 was arguably one of the most revealing speakers ever made.
It might be an eye opening experience for some who think they hear cable differences to test their ability under controlled conditions.
In Jack Nicholsons voice: "YOU WANT THE TRUTH!!?? You can't handle the truth!!"
I think they're afraid of the truth.System:
H/K AVR430 Receiver
Samsung DVDHD841 Dvd player
Yamaha CDC506 5 Disc changer
Jamo E855 Tower speakers
Wharfdale Pacific P-10 Bookshelf speakers
Acoustic Research Master Series Interconnects -
I realize this (Haven't you figured out by now that I was an engineer at one time?) This has been done by numerous people and it certainly doesn't take a EE, a decent Fluke multimeter will do in most cases. I've seen tests on oscilliscopes and feedback tests, primarily on IC's that have shown that the difference between "MOST" cables at "MOST" frequencies are on the order of ~0.00001 dB and I have never seen a result greater than ~0.003 dB at any frequency. How did we test? Test 1:Have the source signal on the display and subtract the source signal after it passed through the cables. Test 2: Have the sam source played through 2 different cables and subtract the signal of one from the other.
I think Polk Maniac did something similar with his computer on music.
Your last paragraph is going to get the pro cable guys all over you... Or at least it did to me when I said the exact same thing years ago.
I miss read your post, my bad. -
Yeah, and I can understand how they feel.In Jack Nicholsons voice: "YOU WANT THE TRUTH!!?? You can't handle the truth!!"
I think they're afraid of the truth.
I was once a wire and interconnect person.
Had a lot invested financially, not to mention my ego.
My first does of reality came before ABX .
My friends and I listened as interconnects were switched behind a blind.
We all heard differences.
Problem was, NOTHING was ever switched :eek:
This proved to me the mind is a powerful thing.
Hey, I still have my megabuck tweako cables, use em too.
They look cool.
Do they sound different ?
Nope, they do not.
If I didn't have them, I would put stock interconnects or zip cord in and not loose any sleep. -
This proved to me the mind is a powerful thing.
Hey, I still have my megabuck tweako cables, use em too.
They look cool.
Do they sound different ?
Nope, they do not.
If I didn't have them, I would put stock interconnects or zip cord in and not loose any sleep.
The ear is a powerful thing.
Some advice, you are a very enthusiastic and energetic person, why don't you offer one of your expensive cables up for Polk Karma since they sound the same. -
I think Quad may have upgraded since those days. I didn't notice any extension cords laying around when the whiskey was being poured this year.CTC BBQ Amplifier, Sonic Frontiers Line3 Pre-Amplifier and Wadia 581 SACD player. Speakers? Always changing but for now, Mission Argonauts I picked up for $50 bucks, mint.
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Is anyone else's lifeforce draining?Check your lips at the door woman. Shake your hips like battleships. Yeah, all the white girls trip when I sing at Sunday service.
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"Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul!
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It might be an eye opening experience for some who think they cannot hear cable differences to test their ability under controlled conditions.ka7niq wrote:It might be an eye opening experience for some who think they hear cable differences to test their ability under controlled conditions.
Especially when well experienced in the audio world.
Yeah, l.i..f...e....f.....o......r.......c.........e..................d............r.............a.............i...............:eek:~ In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence. ~ -
http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/calling-****/updated-journalist-accepts-1-million-challenge-do-7250-cables-sound-better-or-not-311034.php
......“however James Randi reserves the right to change test protocol in any way he personally desires."
How soon before the test will this happen [unbenounced to the applicant who supposedly chooses the test protocol]? Will it be documented? Does this happen during the screening process, or the actual test?~ In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence. ~ -
Who gives a ****?
THAT my friends, is the $64,000 question.Check your lips at the door woman. Shake your hips like battleships. Yeah, all the white girls trip when I sing at Sunday service. -
I'm beginning not too. The more that is revealed, the more the whiff of BS is smelled. Real strong.~ In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence. ~
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Oh, so sorry not to answer your question. The naysayers. They are whacking off as we type.Who gives a ****?~ In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence. ~ -
So a circle jerk is the order of the day?
I wonder why people are even IN this hobby.Check your lips at the door woman. Shake your hips like battleships. Yeah, all the white girls trip when I sing at Sunday service. -
The ear is a powerful thing.
Some advice, you are a very enthusiastic and energetic person, why don't you offer one of your expensive cables up for Polk Karma since they sound the same.
Naw, I like them for shock value, plus I buy and sell a lot of stuff.
Roger Russell uses Cardas Wire on his IDS Speakers, although he don't believe in it either. -
Panting actually, can't wait for Fremer to take the challengeOh, so sorry not to answer your question. The naysayers. They are whacking off as we type.
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Peter Walker is Dead ......I think Quad may have upgraded since those days. I didn't notice any extension cords laying around when the whiskey was being poured this year. -
:rolleyes: Really?CTC BBQ Amplifier, Sonic Frontiers Line3 Pre-Amplifier and Wadia 581 SACD player. Speakers? Always changing but for now, Mission Argonauts I picked up for $50 bucks, mint.
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You knew that Mark.:rolleyes: Really?
The point I was trying to make is that Peter Walker was quite radical in his stubborn ways.
He refused to abandon DIN connectors for years for instance.
Even though most all went to RCA's.
He was adamant about wire being wire, and would not capitulate to market pressures and snake oil.
Once he died, perhaps many of his beliefs died with him.
That may explain what you saw. -
I am sure you guys have seen this article http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9D06E1D61739F930A15751C1A96F958260
Polk is mentioned in it. -
You knew that Mark.
The point I was trying to make is that Peter Walker was quite radical in his stubborn ways.
He refused to abandon DIN connectors for years for instance.
Even though most all went to RCA's.
He was adamant about wire being wire, and would not capitulate to market pressures and snake oil.
Once he died, perhaps many of his beliefs died with him.
That may explain what you saw.
Yea, RCA vs DIN worked out great as I see a huge DIN market. Do you have a link to Mr. Walkers' comments?CTC BBQ Amplifier, Sonic Frontiers Line3 Pre-Amplifier and Wadia 581 SACD player. Speakers? Always changing but for now, Mission Argonauts I picked up for $50 bucks, mint. -
You'll convince us one day! :rolleyes:
Who else do you know? Where else have you been? You are our Daddy, please show us the way.~ In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence. ~
