James Randi extends the million dollar challenge
Comments
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When are you going to win the $1M? You keep saying it's so easy, so put up......or (you know how the rest goes)
Please point out where I said it was easy? treitz3 and Yashu said it would be easy, that's why I suggested they go for it. You also claimed you could do it on your system. It would seem you guys are the one's that need to "Put up, or shut up". -
Please point out where I said it was easy? treitz3 and Yashu said it would be easy, that's why I suggested they go for it. You also claimed you could do it on your system. It would seem you guys are the one's that need to "Put up, or shut up".
Yes, it works on my system so that's all that matters. I don't need to prove it to you or James Randi or anyone else for that matter. If you are happy with your system, rock on. If you can't hear a difference, rock on and feel blessed.
H9"Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul! -
Yes, it works on my system so that's all that matters. I don't need to prove it to you or James Randi or anyone else for that matter. If you are happy with your system, rock on. If you can't hear a difference, rock on and feel blessed.
H9
No need to prove it? Not even for 1 million dollars?
Yeah...right.:rolleyes: -
I'm in agreement with WilliamM2.
I've been following this thread with interest, only because I think this is a good opportunity for someone to step up to win the million dollars.
I understand that many people feel that there is no need to prove that they can hear differences in speaker cables. I completely understand that perspective. But I don't understand why someone who could prove in an A/B test (which would presumably be an agreeable protocol for James Randi's standards) would decide not to do it. As someone pointed out earlier in the thread, even after paying for all of the expenses of arranging the test and the time needed to arrange the test, you'd come out waaaaaaaaaay ahead.My HT
HDTV: Panasonic PT-61LCX65 61" Rear Proj. LCD
AVR: Harman Kardon AVR 235
Video: 80GB PS3, Toshiba HD-XA1 HD DVD
Fronts: Polk Audio RTi8
Center: Polk Audio CSi3
Amp: Emotiva LPA-1
Surrounds: Polk Audio R150
Sub: HSU STF-3
The only true barrier to knowledge is the assumption that you already have it. - C.H. Dodd -
I suprised nobody has brought up the Richard Clark challenge that has been going on for around 17 years. $10,000 Amp Challenge
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I said it was easy with proper instrumentation and well tuned ears! I am repeating this and highlighting this and making sure my words are not twisted again.
With proper instrumentation, test tone generators, and also well tuned and experienced ears, IE, people that know what needs to sound like what... obsessive people like me or other obsessive audiophiles.
You guys keep forgetting that Randi DOES NOT AWARD THE MILLION TO THIS TYPE OF TEST!!! He specifically states that good instruments and "dog ears", as in people that actually KNOW music... he specifically states that these do not count!
We could throw some good measuring equipment on that wire and run through a series of tests and compare the results, AND we could hear them with our "dog ears", but he wouldn't award the milllion.
This contest is for the average joe sixpack... Randi is trying to say that for the average joe, cables don't matter. To a point he is right... the average joe with a sony reciever and some old bose speakers, that person doesn't need $7000 cables...
I am going to type in caps here: WE ARE NOT AVERAGE JOES. We have obsessive "dog ears", we are smart enough to use measuring equipment and software, and so, we would not be awarded the million.
So, I am going to say this for the third time, Randi has setup this so that the million cannot be won. I have also said this: Randi made a living out of making fools of certain researchers by using his skills as a magician to fool them and then revealing this fact later. He knows how this game works...
His assumption is that the average joe (not us) cannot tell the difference... and who knows, maybe some guy might come along and make him put his money where his mouth is, but I doubt Randi would let the contest get that far... he might acccuse the guy of secretly working with a black ops group of audiophiles and electrical engineers. -
I said it was easy with proper instrumentation and well tuned ears! I am repeating this and highlighting this and making sure my words are not twisted again.
No one twisted you words:You know what? That million is now very easy to get... just grab some 20g crappy wire and some good 12g speaker wire, not too expensive, but quality... Hell you can even use his crappy monster cable as the control... it doesn't matter.This contest is for the average joe sixpack... Randi is trying to say that for the average joe, cables don't matter. To a point he is right... the average joe with a sony reciever and some old bose speakers, that person doesn't need $7000 cables...
The test is not for the average Joe sixpack, he offered the challenge to Dave Clark, a professional reviewer.So, I am going to say this for the third time, Randi has setup this so that the million cannot be won.
You can say it as many times as you want, that does not make it true.
You set up the protocol, not Randi. The test is conducted by a third party, not Randi.
And of course you can't use measuring equipment, the challenge is whether or not you can "hear" the difference. -
He said specifically "dog ears", as in people that have very perceptive ears. He said no instrumentation and no perceptive ears... so again, for the 4th time, he set it up where it cannot be won.
"you setup your own protocol" is complete BS... he is the one that has to approve this "protocol"... if he knows you have these "dog ears", that's it, contest over, no million. There are even preliminary tests... what do you think he is doing during this time? He is weeding out those that could win.
I have perceptive ears and I can use and read testing equipment. I am not who this contest is directed at. This is for people that can't hear worth **** (or just don't care to) and wouldn't think of using technology, IE, the average joe 6pack of top 40s pop listener. As in, none of us.
I am not going to post any more arguments in this thread... the fact that he must "approve" of your testing methodology shows even more, a conflict of interest (and don't forget the monster audio adverts). This guy is not only a fraud, but he has no ethics.
PS. Love the DJ smilies... that moment when you control the thoughts and feelings of an entire crowd of people... it's wonderful. I used to joke that a musician has the ability to steal your "now". Imagine the power. The best recording, or a great stereo, a good live show, it can steal that one thing which we are all born with and that we take with us when we die... the NOW, such a precious thing, something that we should take care in whom we lend it out to. Cheers to good music, to good sound, and to anything else worthy enough to take it, but kind enough to give it back. -
So I dumped this on the board without too much comment, but I'm going to chime back in to say that Yashu, your reading comprehension leaves much to be desired.Gallo Ref 3.1 : Bryston 4b SST : Musical fidelity CD Pre : VPI HW-19
Gallo Ref AV, Frankengallo Ref 3, LC60i : Bryston 9b SST : Meridian 565
Jordan JX92s : MF X-T100 : Xray v8
Backburner:Krell KAV-300i -
I have perceptive ears and I can use and read testing equipment.
So you need test equipment to "hear" the difference?I am not going to post any more arguments in this thread... the fact that he must "approve" of your testing methodology shows even more, a conflict of interest (and don't forget the monster audio adverts). This guy is not only a fraud, but he has no ethics.
Right, no need for him to aprove the protocol, in fact no need for him to test you at all. He should just take your word for it, and hand you the money.:rolleyes: -
Some people can't handle the truth. Which is fine, unless they are trying to get me to spend my money on their widgets.
Cans of tomatos and skyhooks for sale!! And Fairy Dust, Too!!! -
Tweak,tweak.. No! Not right! tweak... Bigger cables , Igor!
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More fuel for the debate. Some interesting light reading. Njoy.
Posted by Jon Risch (B) on September 30, 2007
http://www.audioasylum.com/forums/prophead/messages/3/37567.html
Jon is well known as an audio DIY guy and tweaker.
Loudspeakers: Effects of amplifiers and cables, in six parts:
http://www.planetanalog.com/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=201802376
http://www.planetanalog.com/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=201803751
http://www.planetanalog.com/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=201804426
http://www.planetanalog.com/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=201806067
http://www.planetanalog.com/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=201807797
http://www.planetanalog.com/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=202102592
About the Authors:
Philip Newell is an international consultant on acoustic design, and former technical director of Virgin Records. He has over 30 years experience in the recording industry and has been involved in the design of over 200 studios, including the famous Manor and Townhouse Studios. He is also author of Project Studios, Recording Spaces and Studio Monitoring Design, all published by Focal Press.
Keith Holland, PhD in Acoustics, is a member of the Institute of Acoustics and a lecturer in electro-acoustics at the Institute of Sound and Vibration Research, University of Southampton.To further compound all of this, unlike the optic nerve, which carries a measurable and recognisable signal from the eye to the brain, the auditory nerves disappear into about six different parts of the brain, and our understanding of how the mind puts the whole sound together is still not well advanced.Salk SoundScape 8's * Audio Research Reference 3 * Bottlehead Eros Phono * Park's Audio Budgie SUT * Krell KSA-250 * Harmonic Technology Pro 9+ * Signature Series Sonore Music Server w/Deux PS * Roon * Gustard R26 DAC / Singxer SU-6 DDC * Heavy Plinth Lenco L75 Idler Drive * AA MG-1 Linear Air Bearing Arm * AT33PTG/II & Denon 103R * Richard Gray 600S * NHT B-12d subs * GIK Acoustic Treatments * Sennheiser HD650 * -
I want to know how they are gonna calibrate all the testee's ears to be equal?:rolleyes:"SOME PEOPLE CALL ME MAURICE,
CAUSE I SPEAK OF THE POMPITIOUS OF LOVE" -
I want to know how they are gonna calibrate all the testee's ears to be equal?:rolleyes:
Ears suck! I'm saving up for some microphone replacements. -
That and methinks thou doth protest too much while bandying about tired Bose insults.
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAMEN!! Sing it from the mountain.I never had it like this where I grew up. But I send my kids here because the fact is you go to one of the best schools in the country: Rushmore. Now, for some of you it doesn't matter. You were born rich and you're going to stay rich. But here's my advice to the rest of you: Take dead aim on the rich boys. Get them in the crosshairs and take them down. Just remember, they can buy anything but they can't buy backbone. Don't let them forget it. Thank you.Herman Blume - Rushmore -
Man, if I knew I could make a garaunteed million bucks for very little effort and shut the people who doubts me up for once and for all, I'd be all over that.There is no genuine justice in any scheme of feeding and coddling the loafer whose only ponderable energies are devoted wholly to reproduction. Nine-tenths of the rights he bellows for are really privileges and he does nothing to deserve them. We not only acquired a vast population of morons, we have inculcated all morons, old or young, with the doctrine that the decent and industrious people of the country are bound to support them for all time.-Menkin
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For anyone who is like me and is still interested in whether anyone will step up to claim the $1M and prove the differences in Pear cables vs. Monster ... this is a response from the CEO of Pear about the challenge:
http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/showthread.php?t=21076&page=6My HT
HDTV: Panasonic PT-61LCX65 61" Rear Proj. LCD
AVR: Harman Kardon AVR 235
Video: 80GB PS3, Toshiba HD-XA1 HD DVD
Fronts: Polk Audio RTi8
Center: Polk Audio CSi3
Amp: Emotiva LPA-1
Surrounds: Polk Audio R150
Sub: HSU STF-3
The only true barrier to knowledge is the assumption that you already have it. - C.H. Dodd -
Again, for those who are interested in the $1M challenge ... it appears that at least one person from Stereophile magazine has agreed to participate in the challenge --- a guy named Michael Fremer:
http://www.randi.org/joom/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=97&Itemid=27#i1
Also, in the same link above, James Randi responded to the CEO of Pear and called him out on a lot of the .. questionable ... comments made by the CEO of Pear. My perception of Pear cables went down to nil after reading the response made the Pear CEO.
Overall, quite entertaining.
My HT
HDTV: Panasonic PT-61LCX65 61" Rear Proj. LCD
AVR: Harman Kardon AVR 235
Video: 80GB PS3, Toshiba HD-XA1 HD DVD
Fronts: Polk Audio RTi8
Center: Polk Audio CSi3
Amp: Emotiva LPA-1
Surrounds: Polk Audio R150
Sub: HSU STF-3
The only true barrier to knowledge is the assumption that you already have it. - C.H. Dodd -
Where does this test take place?~ In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence. ~
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What exactly are the preliminary tests?WilliamM2 wrote:To date, no one has ever passed the preliminary tests.~ In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence. ~ -
What exactly are the preliminary tests?
Usually the preliminary test has less controls. Just to see if you can do what you claim to do. From his site:
" In most cases, the applicant will be asked to perform a relatively simple preliminary test of the claim, which if successful, will be followed by the formal test." -
~ In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence. ~
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Controls? For what?
Controls, like in any scientific testing. In a cable test, one of the controls would be that the test is double blind, another would be precise level matching, etc. -
I emailed him demanding proof that he has one million US dollars in his account. No response. Why am I not surprised, just another blowhard with a big bag of nothing.Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
I emailed him demanding proof that he has one million US dollars in his account. No response. Why am I not surprised, just another blowhard with a big bag of nothing.
I'm guessing in the fine print, in the end it's Monopoly money."Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul! -
I emailed him demanding proof that he has one million US dollars in his account. No response. Why am I not surprised, just another blowhard with a big bag of nothing.
Uh, if you had a million dollars in the bank would you send "proof" to some random internet yahoo who e-mailed you? I'd bet not...:rolleyes:
Come on Jesse, you're smarter than this...There is no genuine justice in any scheme of feeding and coddling the loafer whose only ponderable energies are devoted wholly to reproduction. Nine-tenths of the rights he bellows for are really privileges and he does nothing to deserve them. We not only acquired a vast population of morons, we have inculcated all morons, old or young, with the doctrine that the decent and industrious people of the country are bound to support them for all time.-Menkin -
Your're right I am smart. Smart enough to recognize BS when I read it. Look, he wants to pre-qualify people, I want to pre-qualify him. Not to mention, he's the one that made the offer, so one already "knows" he has a million. If I had a million, you wouldn't know about, period.Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
WilliamM2, e-mail Randi for us and ask him when he loses the challenge, can we purchase ALL test equipment/cables back from him immediately at fair market value using the winnings?
Ask him;
To provide proof that he actually has the dough.....vaguely important.
Where is this test to be held?
Is it OK if we choose all gear to be put into the Black Box.
What are the room conditions?
Are three video cameras allowed to be rolling at all times? [He will be allowed cameras as well.]
Why would I admit to having paranormal abilities when all I'm doing is listening for a change in sound reproduction? That's not paranormal activity, therefore he's gonna have to omit that part. That's just silly. No, that's just plain stupid, but you don't have to relay that to him.
What EXACTLY is the criteria for passing the entry into the test?
Since you seem to be having so much fun, tell you what. I'll step up. I am willing to take the challenge. Just verify for me that we can purchase all of the equipment/cables used in the test and I'll do it. I will also need to know the location and room conditions.~ In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence. ~ -
WilliamM2, e-mail Randi for us and ask him when he loses the challenge, can we purchase ALL test equipment/cables back from him immediately at fair market value using the winnings?
Ask him;
To provide proof that he actually has the dough.....vaguely important.
Where is this test to be held?
Is it OK if we choose all gear to be put into the Black Box.
What are the room conditions?
Are three video cameras allowed to be rolling at all times? [He will be allowed cameras as well.]
Why would I admit to having paranormal abilities when all I'm doing is listening for a change in sound reproduction? That's not paranormal activity, therefore he's gonna have to omit that part. That's just silly. No, that's just plain stupid, but you don't have to relay that to him.
What EXACTLY is the criteria for passing the entry into the test?
Since you seem to be having so much fun, tell you what. I'll step up. I am willing to take the challenge. Just verify for me that we can purchase all of the equipment/cables used in the test and I'll do it. I will also need to know the location and room conditions.
You want the million, you will have to do the work, not me. All the contact info is on his site, which apparently, you still have not read.
