Upgradeitis. Need some advice on Cinenova Grande

sabotg

Ok, so I've got a bad case of upgradeitis and want to buy an amp. I have been researching the Cinenova Grande 5 channel amp but I want to get some opinions on what I should do. I currently use my gear for a 80% HT 20% music. The current setup is Polk RTI 10's,CSI 5, FXI 5's (surrounds) Velodyne DLSR-5000 sub and RTI 6 (rear) all being powered by a Pioneer Elite VSX72TXV. The plan is to use the Pioneer for the (pre-amp) "decoding" and Rear channel (RTI 6) and let the Cinenova drive everything else. I'm sure the existing speakers would benefit from the extra power but I'm not sure how much. My other issue is convincing the little lady that this purchase will really make a difference.:rolleyes: If anyone has gone this route with a similiar setup I'd be happy to hear from you. Thanks!!!!

cfrizz

I started with a 2 channel 200wpc amp, then got a 200wpc mono for my center. I now have what is in my signature! GO FOR IT! It will make a huge difference!

wingnut4772

The Earthquake is phenominal for HT and very good for music if your ratio is 80/20 with HT winnning out. My only caveat is that it leans a tad bright ( a smidgeon really)- especially new - so I am not sure how it would go with the Rtis for music. I love mine and movies and music sound great on my Von Schweikerts.

sabotg

If I decide to do this, what interconnect cables do you recommend I use from the Pioneer to the Cinenova?

wingnut4772

It depends on your budget. I started out with Cobalt Cable interconnects and they were decent until I upgraded to Kimber Heros and ultimately DH Labs Air Matrix. Others here have used Blue Jean and Signal but I never heard those. I will say that the Cobalts sounded like mud after I heard the Kimbers and the DH Labs.

sabotg

Thanks for the advice. I'll start checking out cables.:)

wingnut4772

You are welcome.:)

Early B.

I don't think the cost will justify the minor improvement in sound that you'll get by going with separate amplification at this point. Your Pioneer is damn good.

If you wanna upgrade something, start with the front and center speakers, along with cables. I think you'll get a much better bang for buck if you deal with your speakers first.

Of course, if you're doing 80% HT, you ought to have one hellacious subwoofer. So sell your Velo and buy the VMPS sub in flea market. You'll thank me later.

cfrizz

Adding 300wpc @8ohms will be a major improvement in sound over his 130wpc.

Upgrading his speakers will cost him a lot more than a 5 channel amp. Especially if he gets it used.

If he doesn't decide to shoot the moon & keeps it reasonable with his cable purchase he should get a great benefit from it.

Gaara

I'm going with Early on this one, the Cinenova is over kill for the given situation. Hell I had the LSis and my current Gallos and I think the thing is overkill.

Last I checked used Cinenovas go for around $1750, with that money + the money attained from selling the old speakers he could easily upgrade the front 3 speakers.

If you like your speakers then I would say go with a separate amp like a ATI or Rotel that could be had for around $750 used and use the rest to upgrade the sub.

Jared

wingnut4772

I admit that I would upgrade those speakers first but definitely put an amp in the lineup.

cfrizz

There is no such thing as overkill when it comes to powering speakers! He will know that all of his speakers are getting all the power they need to sound their best & he will have a top notch amp already in place when he does decide to upgrade his speakers.

sabotg

cfrizz wrote: »

There is no such thing as overkill when it comes to powering speakers! He will know that all of his speakers are getting all the power they need to sound their best & he will have a top notch amp already in place when he does decide to upgrade his speakers.

This is the approach I want to take. I'm pretty sure I'd be happy with the existing speakers especially for HT for quite awhile.

sabotg

By the way, thanks for all the input. I kind of have my heart set on the Cinenova but I'm willing to rethink that purchase. (I'm going to try to find a used one by the way 4K is alot for an amp) The main point of this exercise is to get as much out of the existing setup as possible and I don't think I'm doing that with just the AVR I have now.

cfrizz

There are other options in the amp dept, unless you insist on the 300wpc @8ohms.

Sunfire, Parasound, Rotel, Outlaw, Nad & Adcom will all get you there at 200wpc.

Good luck on your search, & let us know what you end up with!

Gaara

May I ask why you are dead set on the Cinenova?

When I first got really into this hobby I was to because it was huge, 140lbs, 300wpc and it doubled down into 4 ohms. Not only this but it used to be rated for 1000wpc into a 2ohm load, so my manager/mentor used to walk around saying "1000wpc...5000 WATTS!" to convince me to buy it.

If you wait around you should be able to find one used for <$2000 but shipping will likely be around $150.

venomclan

This amp will make a difference, but there are also other lesser expensive amps that will make you happy, especially if you are using your system 80% HT. Check out the others Cfrizz mentioned and do not be afraid of the used market like audiogon.com. Power is NOT everything. But it helps with the right gear. Don't be afraid to keep the questions coming
V

wingnut4772

I paid about $2100 for my 5 channel Earthquake new about a year or so ago. I don't think they can be had for as low as that anymore but if you PM me I can refer you to the dealer who sold me mine.

dkg999

I'm gonna go with Early B's thoughts also! That Pioneer AVR is a pretty good one. I would first look at getting decent cables. You don't need to go real expensive, the Blue Jeans Cable IC's and Beldon 12g grey speaker wire works good for HT, or move up to Signal Cable. Others have mentioned good brands that I don't have any experience with. Depending on how loud you like to listen, I would first consider a used 2 ch. amp for the RTi10's. Taking the front mains out of the AVR will free up the amplifier section to do a better job with the center, surrounds, rears. Any decent name brand 2 ch power amp will sell well if you decide you need a 5 ch powerhouse down the road. Depending on listening habits, there are lots of 120wpc to 150wpc 5 ch amps on the used market that can be bought very reasonable. As long as they have good current reserves, and you aren't listening at Rolling Stones concert levels, they may be all you need. I'm running LSi's with a B&K AVR at 150 wpc, and at any sane listening level, no problems at all.

sabotg

Gaara wrote: »

May I ask why you are dead set on the Cinenova?

When I first got really into this hobby I was to because it was huge, 140lbs, 300wpc and it doubled down into 4 ohms. Not only this but it used to be rated for 1000wpc into a 2ohm load, so my manager/mentor used to walk around saying "1000wpc...5000 WATTS!" to convince me to buy it.

If you wait around you should be able to find one used for <$2000 but shipping will likely be around $150.

The cinenova looked to be a great performer for the price especially if I could find it used or on auction etc... On top of that it I can keep it around for future upgrades.

dkg999

If that's what you want, go for it I'm not sure you need to spend that much to improve your HT system, but if you're set on it you'll always wonder about it if you go another direction. Let us know your thoughts after you have it

MADGSF

Just to throw in my .02, I love the way my 10's sound now that I have the B&K amp in my sig. I Agree that power is not every thing but I think current is very important. I went with the 200 p/channel amp because my wife said "your only doing this once". I have more power than I need now but love the sound. On the plus side you can pick up one used for about 1K.

Sami

Put me down to Early's and Jared's camp, bang for the buck wise you're propably not getting what you want. If you want to upgrade amplification, why not start with 2ch first and try it out if it makes a difference to you? For closer to $2k you'd do quite a lot better in both upgrading the speakers AND adding a good amp for them.

sabotg

Sami wrote: »

Put me down to Early's and Jared's camp, bang for the buck wise you're propably not getting what you want. If you want to upgrade amplification, why not start with 2ch first and try it out if it makes a difference to you? For closer to $2k you'd do quite a lot better in both upgrading the speakers AND adding a good amp for them.

Trying to work new speakers would be difficult to pull off. I hassled my old lady about the RTI's for about a year before finally buying them. If I even mentioned anything about speaker upgrade right now she'd have me shot
The reason she's open to the amp is that she was genuinely impressed with the difference the Elite made when I swapped out my old HTIB Onkyo AVR. On top of that I walk a fine line when It comes to Speakers that are cosmetically pleasing (her words) so the RTI's are it for now. Another question for the go 2 channel amp crowd. If I did in fact just go with a 2 channel amp for my RTI-10's wouldn't it throw off my front soundstage if the center isn't getting as much wattage as the L/R?

cfrizz

He is happy with his speakers & sounds like he wants to get it done in just ONE shot. All speakers benefit from extra power so there is no need to do it a channel or 2 at a time.

Not everyone wants to constantly & continously feed an expensive habit as audio. Quite frankly, doing it that way while fun is a terrible waste of money.

And if he's married, his wife just like Mad's will be alot happier!

cfrizz

All you have to do to get all your speakers even is to calibrate your system. If your receiver has it you can do it that way. Otherwise pick up a spl meter at Radio Shack & do it that way.

You had it right the first time Sab. Just get one amp with 5-7 channels & be done with it. Your wife & you will LOVE the sound & it is one piece of gear you won't have to worry about upgrading ever again unless it breaks.:)

sabotg wrote: »

Trying to work new speakers would be difficult to pull off. I hassled my old lady about the RTI's for about a year before finally buying them. If I even mentioned anything about speaker upgrade right now she'd have me shot
The reason she's open to the amp is that she was genuinely impressed with the difference the Elite made when I swapped out my old HTIB Onkyo AVR. On top of that I walk a fine line when It comes to Speakers that are cosmetically pleasing (her words) so the RTI's are it for now. Another question for the go 2 channel amp crowd. If I did in fact just go with a 2 channel amp for my RTI-10's wouldn't it throw off my front soundstage if the center isn't getting as much wattage as the L/R?

cfrizz

Here are a few options from audiogon.

http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?ddampsmult&1186429055
http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?ampsmult&1188677759
http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?ampsmult&1188499101
http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?ampsmult&1188528842

Here is the lowest price Cinenova I could find.

http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?ampsmult&1187137681

Sami

cfrizz wrote: »

He is happy with his speakers & sounds like he wants to get it done in just ONE shot.

There is NO ONE SHOT.

It's you money sabotg and if it is burning a hole in your pocket, go for it.

cfrizz wrote: »

All speakers benefit from extra power so there is no need to do it a channel or 2 at a time.

Power, power, power. It tells you about as much about the sound quality as skidpad tells about cars handling. Pick the amp on how it sounds, not how much power it is rated at.

cfrizz

If I got an amp that changed the sound of my system, I would return it! The only thing an amp should do in my opinion is add to the clarity, depth, control & volume/headroom.

Everything else should stay the same, there should just be more of it.

Sami

cfrizz wrote: »

If I got an amp that changed the sound of my system, I would return it! The only thing an amp should do in my opinion is add to the clarity, depth, control

That's sound quality.

cfrizz wrote: »

& volume/headroom.

Volume control is preamp functionality.

cfrizz

JHC! Then what the hell are you *itchin at me about? All of my 200wpc amps & more have delivered it in spades. Which is more than my Rotel 50wpc & 110wpc Denon ever did.

Would you guys TRY to be consistent??? You all float in whatever direction the wind blows when it comes to amps. No wonder poor newbies get confused!