integrated amplifiers

Yashu

With the exception of having a phono stage, the others share the same pre-amp stage

That would be the C372. It was 'Phile rated as Class B if I'm not mistaken, and is an incredible value for the $$$.

I think the second quote here is right. Like I said, I know that several of the NAD integrateds just have a basic line stage for the pre section... I know my c350 does, and I don't think THAT much as changed. The phono stage I could take or leave, but the c162 was a good pre in general, not just for the phono. I thought about even getting the c162 to mate with my c350, and I have a seperate phono preamp. The line stage versions have some input and channel crosstalk. I fixed this on mine by shorting out the un-used inputs.

Yes I agree about having the versatility of the M3. I would not want to give up my pre outs and main in... (I lost the jumpers that came with it though... grrr... I put some good ICs on there and it actually improved the sound, so *shrug* I need to get around to making a custom IC for that so I don't need the 3ft cable for going 1 inch.)

F1nut

dorokusai wrote: »

Denon and Rotel currently make an IA and the used market is abound.

Yes they do and have made them for some time. My point was to try to get folks to understand there is a difference between integrated amps, receivers and AVR's.

marker

And there's nothing else quite like a good integrated, is it Jesse?

EVERYONE who listens to any music at all should have at least one.

marker

Bill Ayotte wrote: »

If you are looking to get into making good sound in a hurry without breaking the bank, I would pick up something like the C320 BEE or the C325 BEE...They both have pre-outs, so later on you could pick up another amp you might want to try...If you like it, you could pick up a pre next, and turn the integrated into a nice little office or bedroom rig....Just an idea.....

Plus 1 on that. As good as the Cambridge Audios are, I think the comparable NADs may be just a little better.

Question - the Marantz PM7200 doesn't have pre-outs/main-ins, but it does have a "processor loop" outs & ins. Could I use this particular integrated amp with the NHT active crossovers - IOW, does the volume control on the unit itself only effect the signal out of the processor loop, and not the inbound signal?

dorokusai

F1nut wrote: »

Yes they do and have made them for some time. My point was to try to get folks to understand there is a difference between integrated amps, receivers and AVR's.

There is?

LuSh

To the OP:

I've been a big fan of integrated amplifiers over the years having owned SimAudio, NAD and currently Krell. I've listened to a number of others as well. I think two factors come into play. Entering the world of separates offers two potential factors which will help in sound quality; lower floor noise and power reserves. While many high powered integrated amplifers can drive fairly efficient 4-8ohm speakers separates from the same manufacture will often allow for even more authority and might induce 'goosebumps' faster when listening. There is only so much one can put into an integrated chassis. Pop open a Bryston B100 and then look at a 4B SST...you'll notice that the torridial transformer is larger in the 4B SST, the dynamics play a large role and the 4B SST is better equipped to handle these swings.

Those are the basic advantages I've heard when listening to separates from SimAudio, Musical Fidelity, NAD, Krell etc...the disadvantages however are that you run into more components which are not only more expensive but require interconnects (which is a novel within itself) and space. In my own situaiton I've thought about getting Musical Fidelity A5 components many times after hearing this system at a friends house. The problem for me is that I prefer to run all my components together. So I have an AVR, DAC, Transport, DVD player, Digital Cable box. Adding two more boxes really isn't in the cards for me at this point.

I think everybody's situation is different; in mine an integrated works very well. I like things simple...it's why I've never really gone the way of analog...I'm too lazy. However if I had a harder speaker to drive i.e. Dynaudio's and a larger room to drive them in; I would likely opt for the two box solution. It should also be noted that many manufactures are smart enough to forsee people in my situation and incorporate Home Theatre By-Pass into their integrateds which can then make life alot easier when trying to mesh 2-channel with multi.

F1nut

Mark wrote:

There is?

Well poo nuggets, there isn't?

marker wrote:

And there's nothing else quite like a good integrated, is it Jesse?

Nope!

Bill Ayotte

Those Krell integrateds look real nice...There was a killer looking Bryston integrated in the FM a short time ago....That could solve your conundrum...It costs substantially more than a C320 BEE, but I bet the performance is on par with the price difference...

Yashu

Bryston makes an interesting one... they offer a DAC module for one of theirs... so it can be a digital and analog integrated.

reeltrouble1

On the other hand using an integrated it would follow their would be great synergy between the pre and amp sections.

I think the best answer is to have a rig with each..............say ooo la la

RT1

AndyGwis

reeltrouble1 wrote: »

say ooo la la

ooo la la ?!?!

Yashu

When you gots the "F-You" money to have a sperates and integrated rig of the same line just for kicks, you can say ooo la la...

marker

marker wrote: »

Question - the Marantz PM7200 doesn't have pre-outs/main-ins, but it does have a "processor loop" outs & ins. Could I use this particular integrated amp with the NHT active crossovers - IOW, does the volume control on the unit itself only effect the signal out of the processor loop, and not the inbound signal?

Bump - anybody?

dorokusai

The main purpose of processor loops or in old people talk, tape loops, was to integrate sound mixing devices like graphic equalizers. You output the source signal thru the processor output of the main, trim it up, feed it back to the main and the signal can be adjusted in gain with the main volume pot.

I imagine that the output is fixed and you get control after the signal returns, but I'm not positive.

Chicomoralessxm

Ok this is a little off topic guys. But any suggustions on a int amp under 1k to power a less effiecent bookshelf like the lsi7's nht 3's or era d5. I was looking at a couple of options the CA640 or 740, Nad c372 or the musichall mavern(a receiver i know but then i can relegate my hk3380. Any thoughts on those guys.......or other suggustions

unc2701

Krell KAV-300i : They've been dropping to a little under $1000 on ebay lately.

AndyGwis

musical fidelity A3.2 (around $900 - $1K) or A300 (older, more power, $700 - $800) used would do the job.

Yashu

NAd c372... I don't see a better deal for the money.

AndyGwis

I have no experience with this one, but it looks (and I'm sure sounds) sweet.

http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?intatran&1185559620

Chicomoralessxm

Hey the classe looks sweet, Andygwis. Yashu i really agree with you on the nad was thinking the same thing myself. Personally i'm prefering to go with something new. As opposed to used. Well that is unless i see a real deal. No fans of of the CA stuff i mentioned?? or MH. The MF3.5 was quoted to me at around 1300 which is still a bit steep for me. But tempting to say the least.

Yashu

The Cambridge looks nice. Doesn't appear to have as much power, but then again I haven't actually listened to one.

I remember looking at CA and also Rotel, for instance the RA-1062.

Chicomoralessxm

Are you refering to the 640A or the 740 not much difference but yes a little weaker on power the rotel is nice but findering a local dealor is a real hassle CA and nad dealors in the states will ship to my region but rotel dealors are tough to find.

Yashu

I really don't think you could do wrong with any of these... compared to the stuff they sell at Best Buy or Tweeter, anything that we have suggested would rock your socks.

I would decide based on your power needs. Get the NAD if you need a ton of power, and get the CA, Creek, Adcom, Rotel, ect... if you need a bit less power but a more refined sound. I don't think you could do wrong with any of these brands. Also consider Jolida hybrid integrateds.

AndyGwis

Yeah, if you're looking for an integrated (or really any audio piece), you need to figure out what you must have, and what you'd like to have.

I had to have a remote (preferrably full function not just volume), SS with 100+ wpc high current (to drive the 4 ohm 88 sens Thiels), phono input, look sweet, pre-outs for sub. I also prefer 2 speaker outputs but not a deal breaker. My budget was $400 - $700, but stretchable to $1000 for a great deal.

That's how I ended up with my MF A3.2. Also didn't hurt that I got it for about $300 under blue book here on the FM from a reputable member.

So, figure out how many WPC you think you need, what other features you have to have, what other features you'd like to have, and a budget. You may find that a $200 HK Integrated will do the trick. You might get a $1000 30wpc tube amp.

Chicomoralessxm

thanks for the suggustions

Chicomoralessxm

I like the nad for the same reasons you get good quality for the price. Just that their equipment does not look all that hmmm shall we say exciting???
I'm looking at well a less efficient speaker than my paradigm mini. Either the era d5 or the nht classic 3, or the dark horse the lsi7. So i dont think my 3380 will do any of those justice. I like a stereo receiver for the convience andy. Tuner, video outputs. sub out if I get one and i'm only intrested in 2 channel due to space constraints. Oh and wife does not like the ht thingy lol.

So where does that leave me??? MFA3.5 is nice power and sound quality i've been told. But then i'll still need my hk or a tuner. I'm leaning toward the mh mavern I will fit all my needs the best plus i can use its pre-out. I'm just wondering how good are there pieces MH well that product in particular. I love arcam but can't find a stereo reciever from them.
What do you guys think are any int amps with video outputs or would that only be a receiver right??

Bill Ayotte

Chicomoralessxm wrote: »

I like the nad for the same reasons you get good quality for the price. Just that their equipment does not look all that hmmm shall we say exciting???

That is the appeal to me...I like the low key look. It looks really nice, but at the same time doesn't draw a lot of attention to it, and it preforms like a ****....The olive finish on it is just killer in my mind...

Yashu

Yeah I love their looks. I am a minimalist and I think that NAD has had a real gem in their classic line ever since they re-designed it in the late 90's.

AndyGwis

Chicomoralessxm wrote: »

I like a stereo receiver for the convience andy. Tuner, video outputs. sub out if I get one and i'm only intrested in 2 channel due to space constraints. Oh and wife does not like the ht thingy lol.

So where does that leave me??? MFA3.5 is nice power and sound quality i've been told. But then i'll still need my hk or a tuner. I'm leaning toward the mh mavern I will fit all my needs the best plus i can use its pre-out. I'm just wondering how good are there pieces MH well that product in particular. I love arcam but can't find a stereo reciever from them.
What do you guys think are any int amps with video outputs or would that only be a receiver right??

Well, there are probably plenty of stereo receivers out there, but, besides the MH Maven, none is from a real hi-end audio company. I think you'll find stereo receivers from the usual suspects (HK, Denon, etc.) that pack a good product with tons of features and a great price.

If you move up the chain and look for hifi / audiophile esoteric gear, you'll quickly find that there are less features available from higher-end companies. Hardly anything will have a tuner built in, really none will have video output, most won't have pre-outs, some won't offer a remote.

So, you'll have to figure out whether convenience or quality / snobbery is more what you're wanting. In my bedroom, I have a HK 3480 for convenience sake (and it's a very good performer). For my 2-channel, I went with something more flashy, upscale but cost me $500 more and has less features.

Give and take, pros and cons, yada yada yada.

unbridled_id

Hey Chicomoralessxm, why don't you look at the NAD c352. It has two pre-amp outputs so you can hook up your sub. It's 80 good watts and it has plenty of inputs (7). Sure you could do better, but the price/performance ratio is quite good.