What to do with HOA that won't help with a safety concern?

candyliquor35m

HOA = homeowners association

My concern is that all the vehicles that are being parked on the street instead of the driveways will eventually cause a child to be struck if they run out from behind one of the parked cars because it's harder to see them when the street is not completely open. This is a suburb where everyone has a nice driveway and a 2 car garage which combined should hold 6 vehicles per house.

I've been to the board meetings probably going on 6 months in a row now and they are getting tired of seeing my face. I even wrote them a letter (attached) last month and they refused to let me read it at the board meeting in front of the other handful of residents. They wrote me a letter the very next day saying 'At this time the Board is not willing to pursue this matter'.

But yet they put a paragraph in the monthly hoa 40 page newsletter urging everyone to only hold garage sales on certain saturdays and to store our trash cans out of view. I would be happy if they put something similar urging residents to only park in the street in an emergency.

Any suggestions?

Note: In the letter, Mr Radack is the county commissioner who controls the streets, stoplights, stop signs, parking, etc.

PhantomOG

Seems like a suggestion would not only make sense, but wouldn't be hard to get in a newsletter.

Have you thought about running for a place on the board? I know it might be more than what you want to take on, but would probably get you somewhere.

ohskigod

I don't know man, sometimes you just have to park in the street. I have 4 cars in my family, 3 go in the driveway, but my pick up stays in the street so each car in the drive way can get out.

dangerous for kids, yes, but so are a great deal of things in life. outlawing cars in the streets seems a little extreme to me, and if I lived in your community, I would fight you tooth claw and nail on it.

no offense, just being honest

that said, I would never own a condo or home in a gated community since I couldnt stand a homeowners association, not bound by any law, to have sway over my life, but thats just me

PhantomOG

A suggestion in a newsletter is far different from making it illegal. I would agree with the suggestion, not with a rule against it.

Rivrrat

I'm assuming the county owns the street. We've been through this too, and the answer is the HOA can't do anything. Our county isn't even willing to enforce parking regulations on residential streets.

You can buy the street back, if the county will sell, but then you're going to get into who owns the utilities under it, and who repairs the street should said utilities need repair. If you own the street, you're going to have to maintain it too, that's going to be extra dues every month.

We wanted to just install speed bumps, and you won't believe the crap we were going to have to go through with the county over that.

I'm sure there's going to be a lot of assumptions, and jumping to conclusions over a topic like this, but being first husband to our association president, trust me when I say as soon as you assumewhat should happen because that's what's right, the county will flex their political muscle and prove you wrong.

Early B.

Does your HOA have a covenant or some kind of by-laws that govern it? Is the HOA mandatory for residents to participate, i.e. pay annual dues? You gotta focus on the law and policies associated with the HOA as it relates to cars parking on the street. If your HOA doesn't have any kind of enforcement power, you're probably wasting your time.

F1nut

Get an effing life.

Besides, HOA's are for pussies.

jdhdiggs

Start randomly chucking bowling balls across the street. That'll at least teach people to slow down and look for objects coming from between cars.

cfrizz

There is also the fact that the children should be supervised, and also be old enough to be trusted outside to know that they should NOT be running out into the street.

My parents drove this into our skulls at a very early age!

Parents need to be responsible for their children, & cars whether there are garages or not BELONG in the street.

Jstas

Barring the association rules and politics and so on and so forth...whatever happened to teaching your children not run in to the street? Why should every resident in the HOA be responsible for someone else's kid? Why can't the parents of said kid teach the kid that the street is for cars, not kids. That's why we have yards and sidewalks; so kids don't get hit by cars because they have a place to play other than the street.

Going to the other side of responsiblity. Why is this such an issue? Any modern car should be able to stop or avoid a child in enough time if travelling at a reasonable speed...like the 10-25 MPH that most states regulate residential speed limits to. If speeding and unattentive driving is an issue, complain to the county, town or whatever municipality that handles your police jurisdiction that speeding and other careless driving is a problem in your neighborhood and that you need more regular officer patrols to enforce the traffic laws for your neighborhood and curb the abuse.

Telling people that they should park in thier driveways because they can handle 6 cars with the garage capacity as a reason for depriving them of thier fair use of the road is not just. Nor is the concern that a child might get hit running from between cars. Especially when anyone in thier right mind would tell you that the street is no place for children to play or even be unattended. Everyone is entitled to the use of the roads. Our taxes maintain them, we get to use them. If there are no laws regarding the barring of parking on your residental streets then you really have no grounds for your complaint about the possibility of children getting hit. You can't deprive others of a priviledge that thier taxes pay for because of your concerns over children not being taught that the street is not thier playground. You can't even base your argument on the possibility that it might happen. Without verifiable proof that the children are making a bad habit out of running in front of cars, it can be argued that anyone, not just children, could be hit. That is a necessary risk that we all take and there are already adequate laws in places to mitigate that risk as much as possible without depriving the average citizen of his/her rights.





On a side note, I'm with ohskigod. HOA's get on my nerves and unless I had little or no choice, I would choose not to live in one. I don't need a group of people afraid of the world telling me what's best for me. I'm perfectly capable of doing that for myself and I am confident in my ability as a functioning human being to be able to do that for those under my responsibility too. I don't need to deprive anyone else of thier life, liberty or pursuit of happiness to do it either.

edbert

F1nut wrote: »

Get an effing life.

Besides, HOA's are for pussies.

There was nothing constructive about this statement. There's a good chance that there's nothing that he can do about having a HOA. Most new neighborhoods today have them and there's nothing you can do about it.

I agree that you should at least be able to bring it up as a concern and just take a poll as far as the other members go. If you have kids that, heaven forbid, like to play outside, this is a valid concern. People can and do drive like morons through neighborhoods. They do it whether there are extra obstacles in the street or not. The problem is when you have kids who might be playing in the yard a toy of some sort goes into the street, they can dart out. If you have kids, I don't see how you don't agree with this.

And don't say, "Then teach your kids not to run out into the street." It doesn't matter how much you teach them, they still make mistakes and one of those can be to accidentally run out into the street.

Good luck, because I know that HOA are a royal pain, but hopefully you will have at least some luck getting the info out there and at least get some people to think about it.

Jstas

edbert wrote: »

If you have kids that, heaven forbid, like to play outside, this is a valid concern. People can and do drive like morons through neighborhoods. They do it whether there are extra obstacles in the street or not. The problem is when you have kids who might be playing in the yard a toy of some sort goes into the street, they can dart out. If you have kids, I don't see how you don't agree with this.

And don't say, "Then teach your kids not to run out into the street." It doesn't matter how much you teach them, they still make mistakes and one of those can be to accidentally run out into the street.

Again, you could get hit walking out to your car parked in the street. Is that a mistake too? How would you get to work in the morning? This argument doesn't hold water. There are speed restrictions and traffic flow laws that are designed to reduce this risk without infringing on rights. An HOA crying that someone might get hit so all parked cars should be banned from the street even if they are legally parked is not reasonable and an infringement on rights.

The rights of the few do not outweigh the rights of the many. You are responsible for your children until they are 18. If they get hit by a car because they ran out in to the street, why were they for one playing anywhere near a street and if they were, why weren't you watching a child so small that they cannot understand the basical physical premise that a car has the advantage in the laws of motion? If the driver is driving "like a moron" then don't punish otherwise law-abiding citizens for one schmuck's poor behavior. Have the police do more to enforce the traffic laws. File formal complaints about the offending drivers. If they get stopped for driving carelessly elsewhere if not in the neighborhood, there will be a track record of previous poor behavior and the penalties will stick, even if he/she fights them.

Yeah, yeah, I know, this is a safety concern that need to be addressed NOW gosh darnit! However, the parked car issue will not solve the problem of a child running into the street. It may not even make it more visible. Neither will the police action. The difference is that the police are there to enforce the law. If there is someone who is not obeying the law, the police need to be alerted to the infraction. Othwerwise, they have no recourse. It is not up to an HOA to tell the residents that they are not allowed to use a county street for one of it's legal purposes because someone is to absorbed in themselves and thier HOA to be watching thier kids properly. There is no "accidentally" running out into the street. There is a momentary lapse of better judgement just like turning your back on your kid to gab with the neighbors. On top of that, for a small child, it is a matter of life and death. It's not a time to be sweet, sensitive and caring when you are trying to tell a child that they will die if they run into the street like that.

I'm sorry, tell me that I don't get it all you want. My parents told me under no uncertain terms that the street was off-limits. If I even thought of going anywhere near the curb let alone the street, I caught holy-hell. It worked for me and many of my friends who have lived rich and fullfilling lives without a nanny HOA watching over them to protect them from the evil cars driving on the street.



Now, if the cars were driving on the sidewalk, I'd say it's time for some action.

Face

Get a fence. Making it illegal to park on the street is a good way to get your neighborhood pissed off at you.

shawn474

I would wager a bet that this is a topic on the minds of most people who live in a development. I know I have the same concerns, but really what could be done? Are you going to require poeple to not park on the street? That means people will be parking in their lawns or blocking sidewalks by parking on the end of each driveway. Cars on the street or not, there is always the possibility that a child could run into the street. Supervision would prevent this most times with cars on the street or not.

Shawn

PhantomOG

damn... such hatred. He didn't suggest making a rule/law against parking in the street. He only wanted a *suggestion* placed in the monthly newsletter that 99% of you wouldn't bother to read anyway. The use of the word "emergency" should probably be changed, but seriously, why is there so much backlash to a simple SUGGESTION in a newsletter?

I agree with everything everyone has said about personal responsibility. I just don't see why everyone would be so pissed off about some non-binding ink in a silly newsletter.

candyliquor35m

Reason #2: It looks trashy.

Two of the streets involved have become major arteries with 4 lanes (2 each direction) with median (ie. divided artery). Certainly not the most traveled streets in town but definitely in the 2nd group of most traveled arteries. One of them even has it's own exit now on the interstate and these houses all have long driveways because the garages are detached and in the back of the house.

I stopped and asked one young girl/lady why she was parking on the street and she said "because everyone else does". I guess the board is encouraging this behavior by doing nothing. I hate hoa's as much as anyone but now I hate them even more.

jdhdiggs

BOWLING BALLS! Their cheap and effective!

Jstas

PhantomOG wrote: »

damn... such hatred. He didn't suggest making a rule/law against parking in the street. He only wanted a *suggestion* placed in the monthly newsletter that 99% of you wouldn't bother to read anyway. The use of the word "emergency" should probably be changed, but seriously, why is there so much backlash to a simple SUGGESTION in a newsletter?

I agree with everything everyone has said about personal responsibility. I just don't see why everyone would be so pissed off about some non-binding ink in a silly newsletter.

Anger? Hatred? Where? About HOA's? Big deal!

Over the rest of the argument, I'll put it this way. My kid is dumb and I didn't bother to tell him/her that cars will run you over if you run in to the street so don't do it. Instead of owning up to my lack-luster parenting skills, I now think that YOU should not be able to park your car in the county owned street that your tax dollars paid for because I am an inadequate parent. You should give up for your fair use priviledged that you have done nothing to jeopardize the status of and deprive yourself of a freedom because I am incapable of getting it through my offspring's thick head that thier life is worth more than whatever could possibly be in that street.

Is that fair and just? Should I be able to petition to remove your freedom because I can't be bothered to own up to my self-inflicted responsibility?

I don't think so.

PolkThug

Get the kids some shock collars.

PhantomOG

hmmm... it seems like you have a problem distinguishing a *suggestion* made to a supposedly like minded community in an effort to better said community from a law removing your freedoms. Even if you don't agree with the suggestion none of your freedoms have been removed. That's why I don't understand why your panties are in a wad.

Jstas

candyliquor35m wrote: »

Reason #2: It looks trashy.

Two of the streets involved have become major arteries with 4 lanes (2 each direction) with median (ie. divided artery). Certainly not the most traveled streets in town but definitely in the 2nd group of most traveled arteries. One of them even has it's own exit now on the interstate and these houses all have long driveways because the garages are detached and in the back of the house.

I stopped and asked one young girl/lady why she was parking on the street and she said "because everyone else does". I guess the board is encouraging this behavior by doing nothing. I hate hoa's as much as anyone but now I hate them even more.

I knew there was a aesthetics issue behind it. That's usually what drives an HOA petition.

If the roads in question are divided roads then why would anyone be letting a child anywhere near the front yard, supervised or not? If they are major arteries, you are likely not going to get anything changed by the county and the HOA will be powerless to do anything about anyone parking in the street. My suggestion would be to watch your kids.

Lastly, saying that the HOA board is encoraging the behavior by doing nothing is flawed logic. The HOA is powerless to enforce the ideas of what the traffic laws should be according to one resident because they are subject to the same county, state and federal laws regarding traffic and even zoning for that matter that everyone else. They cannot arbitrarily make up a rule and then expect people to abide it because they said so. Especially if the rule violates the jurisdiction that the roads fall under. If it bothers you so much that you live in a residence in a residential area on a semi-residential, major road then maybe it's time for you to start looking for another place to raise your family.

F1nut

candyliquor35m wrote: »

Reason #2: It looks trashy.

Two of the streets involved have become major arteries with 4 lanes (2 each direction) with median (ie. divided artery). Certainly not the most traveled streets in town but definitely in the 2nd group of most traveled arteries. One of them even has it's own exit now on the interstate and these houses all have long driveways because the garages are detached and in the back of the house.

I stopped and asked one young girl/lady why she was parking on the street and she said "because everyone else does". I guess the board is encouraging this behavior by doing nothing. I hate hoa's as much as anyone but now I hate them even more.

You should live in a bubble. Just think, no mercury, no cars parked on the street, no whatever else has crawled up your anal **** this week.

Please, from now on, don't bother us with your petty BS.

markmarc

HOA's are a fact of life in neighborhoods newer than 10-15 years. Some aren't enforced, while others actually have paid monitors. With HOA's you get the good and bad; the neighbor who normally would let weeds grow, actually is forced to keep things up. On the other hand, a choice of 16 paint colors is silly.

I'm a big supporter of personal responsibility, but it only takes one neighbor who thinks that their rights superseed common decency/respect to reek havoc on a neighborhood. i think the best bet is to have a block party bbq, get everyone talking together, you might be surprised at what happens when everyone gets to really know and care about one another.

PhantomOG

Anywho... in the end even if you got your way I doubt it would make one iota of difference so you're probably just wasting your time.

Unless you just wanted to ruffle feathers here

edbert

Jstas wrote: »

Now, if the cars were driving on the sidewalk, I'd say it's time for some action.

Ask Hearingimpaired about this one.


I totally agree with the fact that kids should learn this and it shouldn't be an issue. My parents sound the same as yours when it came to safety issues. It just seems that he has a better chance requesting people park their cars in their driveways so there is better visibility than telling all the parents to teach their kids something and be responsible for them. I'm not saying it's right, but if the shoe fits...

Bill Ayotte

edbert wrote: »

There was nothing constructive about this statement. There's a good chance that there's nothing that he can do about having a HOA. Most new neighborhoods today have them and there's nothing you can do about it.

My neighborhood has a HOA....The HOA is the organization that is supposed to make sure we sign the Deed Rules when someone buys a house in the neighborhood, but they sure as hell weren't around when this one was bought, we didn't sign ****...I will never sign that piece of paper, the rules they list are stupid and asinine. I don't need to sign anything that says I can't put a trailer home in my backyard, I am not a hick.

edbert wrote: »

I agree that you should at least be able to bring it up as a concern and just take a poll as far as the other members go. If you have kids that, heaven forbid, like to play outside, this is a valid concern. People can and do drive like morons through neighborhoods. They do it whether there are extra obstacles in the street or not. The problem is when you have kids who might be playing in the yard a toy of some sort goes into the street, they can dart out. If you have kids, I don't see how you don't agree with this.

Here is the problem; kids will always play in the street, that is just a fact of life....When kids are brought up to think that they can continue to play in the street when a car comes and block traffic, that is wrong, and in most cities illegal. What really angers me about this is the fact that parents somehow think it is ok for this to happen, and get angry at the vehicles for wanting to drive on the street. I was actually confronted by a parent after honking at his child and was told that I needed to be patient and his kid would move when he was ready to...I sat there for five minutes before I honked, I guess the kid wasn't ready to move yet. Instead of telling the kid to get the hell out of the cars way, he told me to get out of his kids way while he was playing.[/QUOTE]

edbert wrote: »

And don't say, "Then teach your kids not to run out into the street." It doesn't matter how much you teach them, they still make mistakes and one of those can be to accidentally run out into the street.

Like I said above, sometimes **** happens. At least they were playing in the yard, then something went into the street.

edbert

F1nut wrote: »

You should live in a bubble. Just think, no mercury, no cars parked on the street, no whatever else has crawled up your anal **** this week.

Please, from now on, don't bother us with your petty BS.

Quick, remove your pants followed by your underwear! Replace said underwear with new pair without a wad in them. Put pants back on and rejoin the conversation.

Rivrrat

I hate hoa's as much as anyone but now I hate them even more.

So what exactly is it you expect the HOA to do in ths situation? At first I felt for your situation, until you started talking about arterials. My house is on a clde-sac at the end of a dead end street. One of the bennies of that is we can let our kids play in the street, but still we we watch. You can't possibly expect the HOA to do something about parking on a 4 lane arterial, the county would laugh them out of the building.

My reccomendation is if it's such a problem, move, or take on a position on the board and attempt to take this issue on yourself. After all, it's your HOA too.

ohskigod

I'm still trying to figure out how a car in the street looks trashy.


Candy, I'll be blunt. you HOA is blowing you off most likly because you have a reputation fo being a pain in the ****. I hate to sound insulting, but Jesus Christ, not everyone thinks and lives like you, people are different. if they want to park in the street, let them, you dont want to park in the street? DONT!!

in all hosesty, if a neighbor came up to me and asked "why are you parking in the street" my response would be "because I frikkin feel like it" it's no one's business why I park where I park, if its legal, then so be it.

F1nut

edbert wrote: »

Quick, remove your pants followed by your underwear! Replace said underwear with new pair without a wad in them. Put pants back on and rejoin the conversation.

Obviously, you don't know me, so let me introduce myself. Go f*ck yourself.

ohskigod

oh and the whole "I care for the children" spiel is priceless. just admit it, you hate people who park in the street because you dont like it, it sure as hell aint the "oh god, the children are in danger" angle