No tubes in my system--am I missing out?

hearingimpared

cstpeter, I have a solid state system and I have great synergy and I love the way my rig sounds with LPs. The CD setup is not completely up to snuff as far as comparing with the turntable but I am happy with it thus far.

I've heard tubed CDPs both in and out of my system and have not been impressed at all. I had a Sony CDP that was tubed with a tubed power supply that others just adore in my rig. It sounded terrible both redbook and SACD. I even had a tube lover here and he agreed, it sounded awful. I'm not saying that tubes suck, I'm just telling you that if you are going to go tubes you better do it right cause tubes don't mix in my rig, well atleast not the front end.

I was going to buy a tube buffer but I love the way my rig sounds so I figured I would upgrade or tweak elsewhere in my rig. I did and I am happier than ever with what I have. I am pursuing a better digital front end but it won't be a tubed CDP.

Bill Ayotte

I am really considering picking up a Rega CDP when I have the funds....I would really like to hear a jolida as well....BTW, there are no tubes in one of my systems, the bedroom rig has the Carver 490t in full swing...I like the way the 490t sounds with the NAD integrated, but I hated it hooked up with my C-19, all tone controls bypassed....I did like the setup George Grand had in his room, with the C-19 being the only tube piece in there to my knowledge....I think it really depends on your system...A well placed tube piece could do wonders...

SCompRacer

hearingimpared wrote: »

.......with a tubed power supply....

It was a solid state power supply.

hearingimpared

SCompRacer wrote: »

It was a solid state power supply.

My mistake, sorry.

DarqueKnight

Each technology has its applications. I do not like, or choose, an audio component because it is based on a particular technology or because lots of other people like it; I like, or choose, an audio component because it gets me closer to the realization of my music reproduction goals.

If I preferred classical music, I would have a tube-based rig because I like the euphonic richness that tube components add to orchestral music. I find the sound to be extremely pleasing...addictive even...for that type of music.

However, my primary listening preference is acoustic jazz. I have never heard a tube preamp or amp reproduce the snap and articulation of an acoustic bass to my satisfaction. Nor have I ever heard a tube preamp or amp reproduce the transient "whack" of hot snare drum licks to my satisfaction. I have heard some tube amplifiers that pleasantly reproduced saxophone music, but the reedy "bite" inherent in the sound of some of my favorite players was smoothed over too much for my tastes.

Going round-and-round with audio gear is somewhat like going round-and-round with plastic surgery. If you don't go into the doctor's office with clear and realistic goals, you could end up having numerous procedures performed and still not be satisfied with the results...like Michael Jackson.

Of course, a certain amount of experimentation is necessary to "find yourself", and this adds to the enjoyment of the hobby. However, changing gear just for the sake of changing, is not my idea of fun. Everyone is different though, and I always wish people well in their pursuit of happiness. I have a friend, a fellow saxophone player, who amuses me to no end with his constant changes in reeds and mouthpieces, and less frequently, saxophones. He says he is always looking for something that will give him that extra "edge" in his technique and sound. I, on the other hand, have been playing the same saxophones, mouthpieces, and brand of reeds for the last 14 years. I have found that I sound pretty much the same no matter what equipment I am using. The only thing I have found to give my technique and sound an extra "edge" is PRACTICE, PRACTICE, PRACTICE.;)

treitz3

Bill Ayotte wrote:

I think it really depends on your system...A well placed tube piece could do wonders...

Yup. Depends on the rig, component [front end/backend] and total end result (synergy) that will yeild a pleasureable or horrific experience when it comes to tubes IMO.

I'm in the best of both worlds. SS power emulated to tube sound. It will be very hard for me to part with my amp when I finally want to go to the next level. Who knows? That's part of the [really expensive] fun though.:D

SCompRacer

hearingimpared wrote: »

My mistake, sorry.

No worries. Carl upgraded to the tube PS later, that is probably why you thought it had one.

hearingimpared

DarqueKnight wrote: »

The only thing I have found to give my technique and sound an extra "edge" is PRACTICE, PRACTICE, PRACTICE.;)

WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA I practice cleaning my records every night and getting them on my turntable, just right!!! I've become very proficient!!!:D

hearingimpared

SCompRacer wrote: »

No worries. Carl upgraded to the tube PS later, that is probably why you thought it had one.

I could have sworn that that power supply had tubes. I remember talking to you about the holes in the outboard PS with the grates in the holes. Well I'm glad we got that cleared up!!!

cstpeter

Thanks to everybody for the input. Certainly is informative and entertaining.

DarqueKnight, great post at #36.

SCompRacer

hearingimpared wrote: »

I could have sworn that that power supply had tubes. I remember talking to you about the holes in the outboard PS with the grates in the holes. Well I'm glad we got that cleared up!!!

The first design power supply had holes in it for the tubes, but he elected to place them on a board in the player instead. Stainless steel screens were secured under the holes to keep probing fingers out.

hearingimpared

SCompRacer wrote: »

Stainless steel screens were secured under the holes to keep probing fingers out.

LOL, and I would have been one of the dopes to stick his finger in the hole and get a free afro as the gift!!!

VR3

I dont know whats cooler about tubes.

The sound... or looking at the glow sticks.

Tubes are a bit warmer than SS - so... take it for what its worth.

hearingimpared

DarqueKnight wrote: »

If I preferred classical music, I would have a tube-based rig because I like the euphonic richness that tube components add to orchestral music. I find the sound to be extremely pleasing...addictive even...for that type of music.

It's funny you mention that, I love classical music. I have loads and loads of LPs and I love the way the double bass and cellos growwwllll, the contra-bass bosoons and the bass trombones, they give me goose bumps. I would think that tubes would warm this sound up too much. I've listened to quite a few classical pieces in the past week and when I hear the bows being dragged across those double bass and low register cello strings it brings me back to when I was a young boy listening to my mother playing her bass and cello.

You now have me very curious to hear a tubed rig with classical music being piped through it.

I have to say though, when my parents would bring me to their jam sessions with their bands, when amplification was used it was all tubed amps. I remember how big those tube were and what really sticks out in my mind is how hot the room would get when the band really started cookin with the music.

reeltrouble1

My two channel rig offers all the snap I could ever want, regardless of genre. I need alot more than just snap though, I suspect most others do too. Not suprising to me that classical and jazz sound best on my rig, since they are the best genre's, some might say Classical followed by jazz are the true musical art forms.

Tubed pre + sand amp=my perfection, of course, its actually the entire system, source, wire, isolation, speaker. Not to mention the room environment, well I just did, didn't I. What is holding a rig back is systemic to that rig and only that rig.

I certainly do not think just adding a tube or a transistor will automatically transform things for you. But I certainly had to take some steps and try things. I certainly am aware of getting a new piece and then having a "disappointment", but I now consider it just a part of the hobby.

The most beautiful thing I ever heard come out of my rig is a Sonata by Asini, whew................I would try some tubes.

RT1

Schwingding

For me, I love the tube amps for classical and accoustic jazz, of which I listen to quite a bit (especially Latin jazz). The tubes, in contrast to DarqueKnight, open up the music to me in a way that my SS amps did not at all.

But for rock and roll, I do not like the tube amps at all. They just don't do it for me with electric guitars, and what not. I like to listen to rock a good bit, too, but with my setups at present, rock doesn't sound good to me through the tubes, so I wind up listening to other types of music and missing out on my good old classic rock and roll.

reeltrouble1

Yes, it is easy to give in and listen to trash, it sounds so good, its gloss and allure is overpowering, especially when alcohol is involved. After a night of doing this I have at times awoken in strange places, I always feel so guilty and ashamed, but in the moment of the previous night it was ecstasy seeming to climax like no other, awash in the moment...............

As I leave I quietly back out, gathering my things for another time, hoping not to wake anyone, leaving the music on, hoping no one notices.

RT1

madmax

hearingimpared wrote: »

I have loads and loads of LPs and I love the way the double bass and cellos growwwllll, the contra-bass bosoons and the bass trombones, they give me goose bumps. I would think that tubes would warm this sound up too much.

I've read everywhere about the euphonic sounds of tubes and how they warm up things. BS in my opinion, that is someones perception because of the lack of intermodulation distortion and undersizing (or over playing) of smaller amps.

After everything I had read I had a clear image of what tubes sounded like. Thankfully I got them for myself and put those ideas to rest.
madmax

outlander

For me, my tube rig sounds better than my SS setup regardless of the type of music being played. I’ve noticed with my tube amp and preamp I can crank the music for hours and it still sounds great but with the SS setup using the same speakers after an hour or so at the same volume I’ve had about enough. With tubes when you turn up the volume the sound gets wider and more involving but to me with SS after a certain point the more you increase the volume the more you increase the pain until you’re at the point that you just can’t take anymore.

It’s funny with the tube amp I can have the music playing at what seems to be a medium volume and then someone in the room will talk and you can’t hear a word they say, only see their lips move, and it’s like damn I didn’t even realize it was that loud. And the reason for this is the tube sound is just so pleasing.
O

treitz3

outlander wrote:

I’ve noticed with my tube amp and preamp I can crank the music for hours and it still sounds great but with the SS setup using the same speakers after an hour or so at the same volume I’ve had about enough. With tubes when you turn up the volume the sound gets wider and more involving but to me with SS after a certain point the more you increase the volume the more you increase the pain until you’re at the point that you just can’t take anymore.

Real life scenario X2.....I'm with you bud. Never been able to spit it out of my mouth like that, but yes. I agree. Fatigue can be a **** when you want to enjoy the music, not force yourself to have to listen.

hearingimpared

treitz3 wrote: »

Real life scenario X2.....I'm with you bud. Never been able to spit it out of my mouth like that, but yes. I agree. Fatigue can be a **** when you want to enjoy the music, not force yourself to have to listen.

I've listened to my rig many times over 4 hours continuously and never had that listening fatigue feeling unless of course I was listening to digital then I experienced the fatigue.

WilliamM2

I don't get fatigue with my SS setup, even listening to digital. Maybe it's the SDA's?

madmax

WilliamM2 wrote: »

I don't get fatigue with my SS setup, even listening to digital. Maybe it's the SDA's?

No, its not the SDA's. Its not necessarily the digital either. It sounds like your SS amp is a good match for you and your system.

As Outlander stated above I too get tired of listening after about an hour on some equipment. Its not that it is annoying me or anything, I just loose interest. That doesn't happen with the tube setups. I find myself wanting to listen for much longer than I have time rather than getting tired of it.

Another thing I've noticed is that the tube amps I have allow me to listen at a very low level. I have not yet had a SS amp where I could listen very quietly and still be satisfied.
madmax

SCompRacer

The point is, try it and listen. Then, as Lindsey Buckingham would say, Go Your Own Way.

hearingimpared

I would really like to see what I am missing in the tube world. The only person I know of locally who has a fully tubed rig is LibertyC who by the way is coming over here within the hour.

I would have to start with a tubed preamp to get the ball rolling here, no? That being said can anyone recommend a tube pre that would be on the same level as the Spectral DMC-10 I currently use? Will a tubed pre mix with the amps I currently use?

madmax

It would mix but for the real experience I'd try an amplifier.
madmax

hearingimpared

madmax wrote: »

It would mix but for the real experience I'd try an amplifier.
madmax

You are the second to suggest that. A tube amp with a solid state preamp? Mind you, a solid state preamp, that doesn't like tubed CDPs, or is too transparent for them. I haven't figured out which it is yet.

engtaz

hearingimpared wrote: »

Have you ever heard a Teres Audio Model 255 turntable?

DarqueKnight's review and showcase.

Joey_V

Chris,

For me, you know why I enjoy having tubes somewhere in the system. Tubes seem to bring out better image densities and better vocal imagery... this is the main reason why I prefer tubes.

Then again, I have not heard what the best SS preamps can do, but from what I have gathered, some of the best preamps on the market are tubes.... i.e. Cary SLP-05, BAT Rex, and ARC Ref3.

Enough talk though, you'll hear what my pre does to your system and you can decide for yourself if you enjoy the sound or not. I'll bring it over and I'll help you set it up... then we shall do an A/B of some sort.

Then I'll let you keep it for a week or two... before I come back and take it from your cold, dead hands...

Joey

hearingimpared

engtaz wrote: »

DarqueKnight's review and showcase.

So you've never really heard it.