Vista just kicked me in the.....

billbillw

Tried to tell y'all in this thread:
http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showpost.php?p=575353&postcount=12

If Windows XP Pro 64 bit doesn't have good driver support after 3 years, what did you expect from Vista at its launch?

BaggedLancer wrote:

Well, got my 64 Vista running on my HTPC......only to find some interesting issues"

1. My sound card isn't supported by 64 bit Vista

2. All 3 HP printers in my house are not supported by 64 bit and according to HP will not be supported by Vista ever.(1 photo, 1 BW laser, 1 All-In-One)

3. There is no 64 bit driver for my WinTv media center remote

4. There is no driver for my Linksys wireless card and Linksys has stated they will not support this product in Vista.

5. More to come I'm sure.


In conclusion, I definately jumped on the bandwagon for the 64 bit vista WAYYYY too soon, but I am glad it's my HTPC(3rd active PC) and not one of my two main rigs.

Should be interesting to see how long it takes for some of these issues to fix themselves. Number 2 and 4 are the ones that really hurt cause its money wasted for stuff I already own that I should be able to use.

However, for the FIRST TIME EVER I passed Microsofts Genuine Test :rolleyes:

shack

BaggedLancer wrote:

Can you get it with Vista and maybe buy XP separate?

Uh...I guess I could....but....NO!

I am not going to buy something I DON'T want (and the OS is part of the purchase price) and then spend more money to buy the OS I want. There are other options.

hearingimpared

shack wrote:

I was considering purchasing a new desktop. Contacted Dell and was told there were NO desktops available with XP...Vista or nothing. I told them I would pass. They may do it for a bulk business order but did not seem willing at the time to for an individual computer...even though their ads are big on YOU customize YOUR computer. We have 4 Dells now...I may have to go elsewhere.

Dell dropped from number one in PC sales to number three in the past couple of years, I wonder if it is because they stopped listening to their customers wants and needs and went to the "let them eat cake" attitute?

BaggedLancer

billbillw wrote:

Tried to tell y'all in this thread:
http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showpost.php?p=575353&postcount=12

If Windows XP Pro 64 bit doesn't have good driver support after 3 years, what did you expect from Vista at its launch?

bbw(now that sounds interesting...:rolleyes: ), i knew i was in for a treat but i figured I might as well get to learning it now on a non-essential PC so this way when it works in 3 years i'll know all the ins and outs of it.

Mainly I just wanted to give those polkies a heads up who got those "free upgrade coupons" with their new PC purchases to stay far away for now. Send the coupon in, save the disk and install it down the road. As bobman said, this is MS's move to eliminate backward compatibility like Mac did, so eventually we all will be on Vista unfortunately.

However, what I heard, and I'm not sure how valid it is, if you do send away for that free upgrade disk and don't install it, it becomes an invalid product key. I bought my disk at best buy so no worries here, but those of you with the free coupons, look into it.

Mark

BaggedLancer

anonymouse wrote:

In defense of Microsoft, the issue here is not Vista, but the X64 edition of Vista's lack of backwards compatibility for drivers. If you use the 32 bit editions of Vista, you will be able to use most, if not all your drivers and devices.

It is next to impossible for Microsoft to rewrite all the legacy drivers (which were written by the 3rd party device manufacturers in the first place), for 64 bit. 64 bit is a different, and far more powerful architecture. It is up to the 3rd party manufacturer to port their driver to 64 bit - and they have no incentive to do so because you already bought their product.

I commend Microsoft for innovating. And no... I'm not pissed my punch card machine and room sized magnetic tape reader does not interface with Vista.

I see what you are saying, but many of those legacy drivers were written for XP x64 based off Xp 32 bit. And due to the fact that drivers for Vista 32 bit are being written off Xp 32 it should only make sense that MS can write Vista x64 drivers based off what they already have Xp x64. Atleast that is how I see it.

Oh, and if anyone wants to see Vista x64 in the Boston area let me know. Be more than happy to show you the goodies in it before you decide if it is right for you.

hearingimpared

anonymouse wrote:

The average american consumer will put up with poor customer service and crappy quality if the price is right. Walmart is ample proof of this.

You may be correct. I guess I am not the average American consumer because I am always willing to pay a few more dollars for good customer service and have slammed retailers both privately and publically for poor customer service. I was in customer & technical support for 30 years and that one quality (great customer service) alone kept most of the businesses I was in afloat.

Sami

BaggedLancer wrote:

IAnd due to the fact that drivers for Vista 32 bit are being written off Xp 32 it should only make sense that MS can write Vista x64 drivers based off what they already have Xp x64. Atleast that is how I see it.

They don't write drivers, only higher level interfaces. Manufactures are responsible for the driver development.

Sami

BaggedLancer wrote:

Adding fuel to the fire:

Logitech Harmony Remote software does not support Vista x64. After calling Logitech they tell me it is supported into the 32 bit OS but not the 64 bit OS.

:rolleyes:

I have XP x64 and Harmony works well.

BaggedLancer

Sami wrote:

They don't write drivers, only higher level interfaces. Manufactures are responsible for the driver development.

yes but MS includes many drivers on their disks when you install an OS, you would have thought they worked with the manufacturers a little harder for vista....

Basic drivers such as sound card stuff, wireless cards, and other stuff are included with the OS.

BaggedLancer

Sami wrote:

I have XP x64 and Harmony works well.

What i meant was supported in Vista 32 bit and not vista 64 bit......I'm sure the XP x64 works fine.....but that's not the issue im having.

Sami

BaggedLancer wrote:

What i meant was supported in Vista 32 bit and not vista 64 bit......I'm sure the XP x64 works fine.....but that's not the issue im having.

I know, just found it weird that since x64, Vista 32b work but Vista x64 doesn't.

BaggedLancer

Sami wrote:

I know, just found it weird that since x64, Vista 32b work but Vista x64 doesn't.

I don't find it strange at all considering the number of things that work fine in Xp 32 bit and don't work in Xp x64 still.....just look at billbillw....

scooter80

I have problems with Vista as well. And I only have the 32 bit version on mine. It has the same compatability issues as the 64. My Linksys wireless card wasn't supported (luckily I had a newer one laying around from a defunct Car PC that was), the AC'97 Audio needed a new driver and still doesn't work properly all the time. Add various restarts, crashes, memory dumps, and Vista was a bad idea for me. It is running fairly well at the moment. I just dread the next time I have to restart for something.

Sami

BaggedLancer wrote:

I don't find it strange at all considering the number of things that work fine in Xp 32 bit and don't work in Xp x64 still.....just look at billbillw....

Logitech releasing x64 compatible software but not making it work in 64bit Vista...Oh well.

I have my x64 working quite well now, even the wireless card. MagicISO works with x64 now so no problems with virtual drives either. Granted, I would install x32 instead if it was a new computer so I do know how it is with new OS. I played around with Vista RC1 and said no thank you rather quick. Too many headaches.

BaggedLancer

scooter80 wrote:

I have problems with Vista as well. And I only have the 32 bit version on mine. It has the same compatability issues as the 64. My Linksys wireless card wasn't supported (luckily I had a newer one laying around from a defunct Car PC that was), the AC'97 Audio needed a new driver and still doesn't work properly all the time. Add various restarts, crashes, memory dumps, and Vista was a bad idea for me. It is running fairly well at the moment. I just dread the next time I have to restart for something.

LOL i had a good 4 or 5 memory dumps at the beginning till I started ironing out the issues in my PC.

Now it starts up and runs great, I just have no software and lots of missing drivers.

scooter80

LOL, I've gone the no software route too. I seem to have all the drivers ironed out now except for the motherboard drivers and software. Go Figure, my A8N32SLI-Deluxe is out-dated by ASUS' standards so they will not be releasing drivers for it... I think that is where my memory dump problems stem from.

BaggedLancer

SWEEEEEET

Couldnt get my mobo integrated sound working because the mobo company didn't make any drivers for it.

Found another mobo that made a x64 Xp driver for Realtek AC97 integrated sound card, installed it, and voila, it works with Vista x64.

Yesssssss.....one more yellow ! gone from my device manager.

Now just waiting on my digital coax cable from monoprice to see if it really works lol.

BaggedLancer

Another interesting note:

Xp Pro on this machine tested using 3dmark05 at 6060 3dmarks

Vista x64 on this machine tested using 3dmark05 at 5637 3dmarks.

Lost almost 400 3dmarks going from a 32 bit Xp platform to a 64 bit Vista platform with no hardware changes. That is kind of disappointing.

scooter80

I have noticed a dramatic decrease in performance of the very few games I have installed from XP to Vista. Vista (even with Aero disabled) is a huge resource hog.

xsmi

bobman1235 wrote:

While I agree this sucks, I think it's probably about time for Microsoft to do something like this.

Apple did it with OSX - broke all backwards compatibility so they could actually takea large step forward in their design. Microsoft, for all its faults, has been COMPLETELY software compatible (maybe not DRIVER compatible, but software) since Windows 3.1. Hell, you can still run DOS programs on XP for the most part. So for them to start breaking compatibility for SOFTWARE now, might actually be a GOOD thing, because it means they overhauled some of the more important features of the OS.

As for not releasing drivers for popular hardware.... that's just inexcusable.

Actually,

Apple did not do it to this extent. The one problem apple had for a LONG time wi OSX was scanner Support. When people were complaining about compatability with OSX it was the Public Beta. OSX 10.1 was the official release and printers, moniters, cards usb and almost everything except scanners was supported. I am relishing in this because, I actually see a parallel in this and the intel transistion. Apple announced 2 yrs agao they were going to intel and adobe has yet to release an update... talk about killer apps. Also a little known fact about Win95 It was advertised as true 32 bit and was not to keep that compatability. Windows was not true 32bit until Win98 release B(I think) and there were compatability issues with that release. I was a computer salesman at the time and took my job way too seriously.:D I personally think that our memories have been too short when it comes to computers because we would not put up with this crap with any other tech. If Polk release Speakers that or components that broke when we upgraded them theyw ould not have lasted so long. Sorfry guys for the long post just don't want you guys to let MS off the hook. They had 5yrs. to get this right and from where I am sitting they BLEW IT.....Again.!

ben62670

Lets weigh out a couple things here
What can vista do for you that XP can't?
What can XP do that Vista can't (like work with almost all hardware and software)
Now add 64 bit to Vista... bang head here!
Remember when XP came out? Scanners and printer never ended up getting driver that worked. New operating system on current Hardware. Every time a new OS comes out it dogs machines. Remember when XP came out on machines designed for XP? They had less than 1ghz processors, and came with 128 megs of ram. Dog. 98 came out 133mhz and 32megs=dog.

When directx10 cards come out that are affordable then I will consider the fancy pain in the rear Vista for my main machine. What is the real difference for now? next to none. The future is bright for 64bit, but for Vista it is a glassed over pretty UI that doesn't do much that XP cant do.

I'm not Paul Harvey Good day

BaggedLancer

ben62670 wrote:

Lets weigh out a couple things here
What can vista do for you that XP can't?
What can XP do that Vista can't (like work with almost all hardware and software)
Now add 64 bit to Vista... bang head here!
Remember when XP came out? Scanners and printer never ended up getting driver that worked. New operating system on current Hardware. Every time a new OS comes out it dogs machines. Remember when XP came out on machines designed for XP? They had less than 1ghz processors, and came with 128 megs of ram. Dog. 98 came out 133mhz and 32megs=dog.

When directx10 cards come out that are affordable then I will consider the fancy pain in the rear Vista for my main machine. What is the real difference for now? next to none. The future is bright for 64bit, but for Vista it is a glassed over pretty UI that doesn't do much that XP cant do.

I'm not Paul Harvey Good day

1. Vista can't do a thing for me that XP can't. I don't care.
2. XP does everything for me on my main 2 machines.
3. 64 bit Vista is merely an experiment on my part to see what MS actually did(or in this case didn't do).

It actually is quite an amazing OS and I look foward to when they straighten everything out, which will probably years, like it took for Xp x64. For now, it's all fun and games for me since it's not a main computer. For someone with only a single machine, I highly recommend not going to Vista.

disneyjoe7

Sad that you're having so many problems now with drivers, but the truth of the matter is with Vista users numbers coming out drivers will be fixed.

Demiurge

Microsoft and all of the various PC vendors all make more money by not making their stuff compatible with the new software. We live in a throw away society for the most part, and HP and the like all know you'll probably upgrade to the latest and greatest.

The only way to stick it to them is to buy a Mac, but most of you aren't going to do that. They know this, which makes it a smart move financially. Maybe not for good will.

bobman1235

Demiurge wrote:

The only way to stick it to them is to buy a Mac,

Or switch to Linux....

Deadof_knight

The real problem is 64 bits drivers wasnt done by everyone else that made equipment.

Sami

bobman1235 wrote:

Or switch to Linux....

Yep. Buying a Mac is even a more expensive option than upgrading your hardware. I have x64 as my main machine but that doesn't bother me much since I have my printer and scanner hooked up to a Linux box and the household can use both through a network. That's what I would do with Vista, save your old machine as a server.

Demiurge

bobman1235 wrote:

Or switch to Linux....

Even more unlikely....

The people Microsoft are making all their money off of aren't the geeks of the world.

jdhdiggs

Well, I tried to use linex/unix/whatever from '95-98 and they can't touch the windows systems for ease of use. I just remember searching all over the inernet to find the driver for each piece of hardware or software I installed. In my eyes you might as well be telling people to go back to DOS.

BaggedLancer

Sami wrote:

That's what I would do with Vista, save your old machine as a server.

It doesn't matter. Even set up as a server you still need to install the driver on your computer. Whether its local or through the network, you still need that driver. If it doesn't exist then no print for you.