HELP! Moving and in need of ?'s answered.

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  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 50,649
    edited August 2002
    Just for the hell of it.....The current Rotel line appears to have two dual mono's, the RB-1090 380 wpc at 84 lbs. and the RB-1080 200 wpc at 37 lbs.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

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  • nascarmann
    nascarmann Posts: 1,464
    edited August 2002
    I keep quoting the local Trading Post.....here's another one: Rotel RB1080 new, still in box, 5yr warranty $850.00......not sure if that's good or not though?:confused:
    Oh, the bottle has been to me, my closes friend, my worse enemy!
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  • goingganzo
    goingganzo Posts: 2,793
    edited August 2002
    i would go cabble modem if you want to get dsl at the same speed as cabble you have to ay 150 a month compared to 40 no i am saying that i hate my cabble tv sigonal it just sucks
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  • mantis
    mantis Posts: 17,200
    edited August 2002
    Russ,
    It's all good,I'm just half cocked when you guys start posting like that....All in good fun,I'm down with that.

    The Rotel Amp I bought is a Dual mono design....It has 4 caps and 2 power supplies.It only has 60 watts per cahannel and it can be bridged for 120 watts.I don't see the need to do that as this little amps kicks .Its real strong and punchy.

    I'm sorry I havent posted a killer post about the Lsi 15's yeat.I'm still fooling around with them.There just about completely broke in now and sounding better everyday.

    I did tell Aaron about them when I first picked them up.And I will post a real good honest review of them.
    For a quick one..there real nice and pleasant to listen to.I don't have the rest of the system yeat,I got to sell all the rt's I own,rule of Mrs Mantis.Not to mention I don't have anywhere to store all these speakers.I already have the rt1000p's behind my recliner in the livingroom and Mrs.Mantis isn't real happy about it.
    But back to the speakers.I didn't like them at all out of the box,they did however sound better then alot of speakers out of the box.They didn't sound real good with the Denon Avr3801 which I use for Home Theater.It's going out the door.The Rotel really opened them up nicely.I want to try B&K just to hear that go.I'm also running them with Monstercable M1.4 Bi wires(yes I can do that guys)And Transparent music links on the Amp and Cd Player.After I move into the new house (which I made up)I'm gonna order the speaker wires as I have no Idea what length I will need.The M1.4s will just have to do for now.
    TroyD,
    the boxes are color coded for left and right.Liv4fam will bring his camera tomarrow and I'm gonna attempt the System showcase or just post in speakers or something.Are you going to give a review on them?I'm gonna Post my Review in Speakers one night this week.

    So guys back to the amp...I will take the cover off and take a pic of the dual power supplies and 4 caps....2 per channel..nice build.I just Love ROTEL......my new ****.Used can you believe that,I can't believe I bought used but I'm happy I did.I don't make things up.I don't play online tuff guy.
    Master StoryTeller!!
    Dan
    My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time.
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  • MxStYlEpOlKmAn
    MxStYlEpOlKmAn Posts: 2,116
    edited August 2002
    cool
    Damn you all, damn you all to hell.......
    I promised myself
    No more speakers. None. Nada. And then you posted this!!!!
    Damn you all! - ATC
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  • hoosier21
    hoosier21 Posts: 4,413
    edited August 2002
    Mantis, that is a very nice Rotel amp, I love my Rotel amp, but dual mono design amplifiers can not be bridged.
    Dodd - Battery Preamp
    Monarchy Audio SE100 Delux - mono power amps
    Sony DVP-NS999ES - SACD player
    ADS 1230 - Polk SDA 2B
    DIY Stereo Subwoofer towers w/(4) 12 drivers each
    Crown K1 - Subwoofer amp
    Outlaw ICBM - crossover
    Beringher BFD - sub eq

    Where is the remote? Where is the $%#$% remote!

    "I've always been mad, I know I've been mad, like the most of us have...very hard to explain why you're mad, even if you're not mad..."
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  • RuSsMaN
    RuSsMaN Posts: 17,987
    edited August 2002
    Got an email back from Rotel, as follows, word for word:

    Dear Russ,

    Thank you for your interest in Rotel! Rotel Power Amplifier model RB 960BX provided significant performance in a true dual mono design featuring two power transformers!

    Best Regards,

    Tim Wyatt
    Technical Support Supervisor - twyatt@equityaudio.com
    B & W Loudspeakers - (978) 664-2870 - www.bwspeakers.com - Fax: (978) 664-4109
    Rotel of America - (978) 664-3820 - www.rotel.com - Fax: (978) 664-4109


    ///////
    So, for the price paid, sounds like Dan got a KILLER deal...I may have to keep my eyes peeled for this little gem....

    Cheers,
    Russ
    Check your lips at the door woman. Shake your hips like battleships. Yeah, all the white girls trip when I sing at Sunday service.
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  • hoosier21
    hoosier21 Posts: 4,413
    edited August 2002
    I stand corrected, I have not seen a dual mono amp that can be bridged, and thought I was told the same?? "can't tie two transformers together" woohoo I learned something.
    Dodd - Battery Preamp
    Monarchy Audio SE100 Delux - mono power amps
    Sony DVP-NS999ES - SACD player
    ADS 1230 - Polk SDA 2B
    DIY Stereo Subwoofer towers w/(4) 12 drivers each
    Crown K1 - Subwoofer amp
    Outlaw ICBM - crossover
    Beringher BFD - sub eq

    Where is the remote? Where is the $%#$% remote!

    "I've always been mad, I know I've been mad, like the most of us have...very hard to explain why you're mad, even if you're not mad..."
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  • RuSsMaN
    RuSsMaN Posts: 17,987
    edited August 2002
    I think it brings up other questions. The new 1090 dual mono Rotel does NOT appear to bridgeable....

    Maybe it has to do with the power supplies being TOTALLY independent of each other? That would make sense to me, but if they were 'in series' or some such, they can be bridged?

    Chuck? Raife? Beuller?

    Cheers,
    Russ
    Check your lips at the door woman. Shake your hips like battleships. Yeah, all the white girls trip when I sing at Sunday service.
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  • DarqueKnight
    DarqueKnight Posts: 6,765
    edited August 2002
    I am not familiar with the Rotel designs, but here are my random thoughts on "bridged" amps.

    I have only heard three amps in bridged mode: Adcom GFA-5002, Adcom GFA-555, and Adcom GFA-555 Mk. II. I didn't like the sound of any of them in bridged mode. Switching to bridged mode seemed to make the amps sound "harder" and glazed over. There was a significant loss of musical detail.

    A common design for bridgeable stereo amps, particularly lower priced (sub $1K) ones is the "cascaded" design. At the flick of a switch the input signal is fed to the input of one channel's amp. The output of that channel's amp is input into the input of the other channel's amp and this combined output is sent to the speaker. Obviously, the chief drawback of this configuration is that the noise and distortion characteristics of the first channel's amp is amplified and added to the noise and distortion characteristics of the second channel's amp. This may account for the harder sound I experienced.

    A better design is the "non-cascaded" configuration where, at the flick of a switch, the input signal is sent to both channel's simultaneously, but one channel becomes inverting and the other channel becomes non-inverting. This configuration results in two channels that are identical, except that one channel is the inverse of the other. The speaker is connected between the two positive amplifier speaker output terminals. This allows more power to be delivered to a single load.

    Why doesn't the power double in bridged mode? Most amps don't double power in bridged mode because the power supply isn't designed to provide the additional current that doubling the output power would require. (The GFA-555 was an exception to this, it was 200 watts/ch stereo and 600 watts bridged mono, 8 ohms). That's why a lot of bridgeable amps recommend no less than an 8 ohm load in bridged mode.

    I have read reports of some audio enthusiasts who have attempted to "bridge" a stereo amp by simply tying the stero outputs together and feeding that to a single speaker. While this may seem intuitively correct, this practice usually initiated unforseen, unfortunate circumstances (like blown amps, speakers, etc.). If the manufacturer does not explicitly state that the amp is designed for bridging, it should not be "ghetto-bridged".

    Again, this is just my general observations during my very limited experience with bridged amps and my impressions gained from reading about the adventures of others in this area. Others may have had totally satisfactory bridging experiences and I would enjoy reading about them. In general, I think it is best to "stay off the bridge" and use an amp that is able to deliver the required power without bridging. If you must bridge, check with the manufacturer to make sure that it is not a cascaded design.;)
    Proud and loyal citizen of the Digital Domain and Solid State Country!
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  • nascarmann
    nascarmann Posts: 1,464
    edited August 2002
    A better design is the "non-cascaded" configuration where, at the flick of a switch, the input signal is sent to both channel's simultaneously, but one channel becomes inverting and the other channel becomes non-inverting. This configuration results in two channels that are identical, except that one channel is the inverse of the other. The speaker is connected between the two positive amplifier speaker output terminals. This allows more power to be delivered to a single load.

    I think this would be right.....a few of the older pre-amps had this feature built in them....they had standard out-puts and inverted out-puts. Yamaha is one manufacture that did this on there pre-amps.
    Oh, the bottle has been to me, my closes friend, my worse enemy!
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  • RuSsMaN
    RuSsMaN Posts: 17,987
    edited August 2002
    Nice post, and for the record I agree with your thoughts on bridging.

    What I'm going at, is if an amp is a dual-mono design, how can it be bridged? If I have 2 Carver m400's, I cannot bridge the left channels of both amps together, right?

    Something isnt meshing for me. Maybe it lies in the manufacturer's interpretation of what dual-mono is.

    The manual on the 960BX cleary states it can be bridged (and Rotel has informed us it is dual mono), but how with 2 xformers?
    The new Rotel 1090 is advertised as a dual-mono amp, and appears as it cannot be bridged (which makes sense to me, like Hoosier mentioned about tieing xformers together)

    Obviously there must be more than one way to wire xformers in a dual-mono amp, just looking for an explanation of what that is....

    Cheers,
    Russ
    Check your lips at the door woman. Shake your hips like battleships. Yeah, all the white girls trip when I sing at Sunday service.
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  • TroyD
    TroyD Posts: 13,077
    edited August 2002
    I dunno, I've kinda wondered the same thing.....and again this is NOT a slam on Dan's amp as I think we all agree that Rotel is good stuff.....how does that work?
    I plan for the future. - F1Nut
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  • RuSsMaN
    RuSsMaN Posts: 17,987
    edited August 2002
    Don't worry about slamming Dan's amp, he had a meltdown and left the forum, remember? ;)
    Check your lips at the door woman. Shake your hips like battleships. Yeah, all the white girls trip when I sing at Sunday service.
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  • nascarmann
    nascarmann Posts: 1,464
    edited August 2002
    he had a meltdown and left the forum, remember?

    Man.....how many time do I have to say this...you are one mean **** I tell ya....one mean ****:lol:
    Oh, the bottle has been to me, my closes friend, my worse enemy!
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  • TroyD
    TroyD Posts: 13,077
    edited August 2002
    Damn, that's right. Well, I guess it's like the question: How many licks does it take to get to the center of a Tootsie Pop?

    The world will never know.

    BDT
    I plan for the future. - F1Nut
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  • RuSsMaN
    RuSsMaN Posts: 17,987
    edited August 2002
    High Five my Brotha!!!

    WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAaa, sorry, I couldn't help it.....
    Check your lips at the door woman. Shake your hips like battleships. Yeah, all the white girls trip when I sing at Sunday service.
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  • DarqueKnight
    DarqueKnight Posts: 6,765
    edited August 2002
    Originally posted by RuSsMaN
    If I have 2 Carver m400's, I cannot bridge the left channels of both amps together, right?

    I don't see why you couldn't. Wouldn't that just be another form of bi-amping? If I understand what you are saying, you would have the left outputs of each m400 connected to the left speaker. Except here, the crossover is not split into high and low sections.
    Proud and loyal citizen of the Digital Domain and Solid State Country!
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  • RuSsMaN
    RuSsMaN Posts: 17,987
    edited August 2002
    Sorta, I see bridging a dual mono amp, like bridging between 2 seperate amps. How can the current flow, if the pos and neg (bridged) speaker cables are not on the same xformer?

    On a 'stereo' amp, when we bridge we are staying on the same xformer, or same series of xformers, correct? I thought a true dual mono design was essentially 2 monoblocks, in a case together, sharing only a power CORD, and a power BUTTON. At least 2 of everything else, totally seperate from each other.

    I'm sure there are variations on the dual-mono design, but I'm not seeing the logic in how you can bridge, if the xformers are seperate from each other, for each channel....

    I'm sure I'm making NO sense at the moment....but thanks for pondering it...

    Cheers,
    Russ
    Check your lips at the door woman. Shake your hips like battleships. Yeah, all the white girls trip when I sing at Sunday service.
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  • DarqueKnight
    DarqueKnight Posts: 6,765
    edited August 2002
    Originally posted by RuSsMaN Sorta, I see bridging a dual mono amp, like bridging between 2 seperate amps.

    Actually, the term "bridging" only applies to stereo amps. Mono amps, even dual mono designs sharing the same chassis, by their very nature, cannot be bridged, at least in the sense that stereo amps can.

    If an amplifier stage is not specifically designed to accept the input from another amplifier stage (cascaded), or designed to work in a push-pull arrangement (non-cascaded), and you hook 'em up anyway, the results may not be satisfactory.
    Proud and loyal citizen of the Digital Domain and Solid State Country!
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  • RuSsMaN
    RuSsMaN Posts: 17,987
    edited August 2002
    *BING* (lightbulb lighting up above my heed)

    Cascading, non cascading, it's starting to sink in, and make some sense....

    Thanks Raife....
    Check your lips at the door woman. Shake your hips like battleships. Yeah, all the white girls trip when I sing at Sunday service.
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  • nascarmann
    nascarmann Posts: 1,464
    edited August 2002
    Cascading, non cascading, it's starting to sink in, and make some sense....

    OK....let's here the big heed's thoughts.......:cool:
    Oh, the bottle has been to me, my closes friend, my worse enemy!
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  • davew43
    davew43 Posts: 25
    edited August 2002
    My 2 cents worth... I have 7 Ford Dealerships across aprox. 650 Mile radius, Each of those I have had to graduate from dialup accounts to whatever BB ISP was available. I have had everything from Hughes Internet Via dish and Direct PC to Wireless Linear Internet from DSL to Cable. OK the long winded plot is for a reason. With About 800 Employees under My belt (IT Dept is a 1 man operation here) Ive had to do some switching from 1 ISP to another. and suprisingly enough, everyone of those stores now have a Cable Modem sittin in the Helm.

    1. If you go with Dish, or Wireless, the Latency is terrible and Upspeed is sooooooo slow.

    2. If you go with DSL, Ive found both Res. and Bus. accounts are somewhat Flakey. Comes and Goes.

    3. Cable has always been good to me regaurdless of the Provider,
    and itsrock solid. (It needs to be so Im not driving for 6 Hours to go reset a CM and reaquire a VPN due to a new IP Address.

    4. As far as Security goes, I dont know that Id trust a single 11 of these 3rd party Programs that are called Firewalls. Yes, a router/Firewall is good, But there are no options other than port fowarding and little cute tricks like that. If you wanna get real security, Go buy a cheap (or used/old PC on the shelf) slap a 20 GB harddrive in it, and Install Linux 8.1.... It has firewalling built in with simple rules, Like hosts.allow, If your not on the list, you dont get in... period, and even if you do get an intruder (good Luck) they still have to find there way to your pc once in.

    Then with features Like apache and proftp (dont forget open source code) no cost. You can run your own web pages hosting them yourself, and have Fileservers for Music and Pix, or what not on that ISP of your choice. And keep it all under a good budget. Thats my itsy bitsy 2 cents worth, want more? we can always chat...
    Dont ask me why it sounds so good... Im just the Computer guy.
    The Audio?
    Polk RT800i's Front
    Polt FX30's Rear
    Polk Csi30 center
    and some flimsy **** Sony Amp pushes it.
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  • davew43
    davew43 Posts: 25
    edited August 2002
    Wow, boy did I screw up, I just seen the second page, and I see we've wondered off the subject a tad ... :S my bad Ill shut up now
    Dont ask me why it sounds so good... Im just the Computer guy.
    The Audio?
    Polk RT800i's Front
    Polt FX30's Rear
    Polk Csi30 center
    and some flimsy **** Sony Amp pushes it.
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  • avelanchefan
    avelanchefan Posts: 2,401
    edited August 2002
    Davew43,

    Thanks for the reply. I had noticed it got way off track. Anyway I have cable now, and I think I am going to stay with it when I make the move to Tucson in 3 weeks. I have a router/firewall that I feel very comfortable with. Everything is hackable up to a certain point, I guess if they want my Clubpolk password and all of my fantasy baseball/football crap they can have it. I do not know if the security is less on the wireless computers, but I really do not worry about those computers because they are basically used for surfing.
    Sean
    XboxLive--->avelanchefan
    PSN---->Floppa
    http://card.mygamercard.net/avelanchefan.png
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  • TroyD
    TroyD Posts: 13,077
    edited April 2007
    mantis wrote: »
    I don't duck,I side step and attack the attack.


    You said it, Dan.

    Crackpot.

    BDT
    I plan for the future. - F1Nut
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