No more Ram

MacLeod

brettw22 wrote:

EDIT: Just called Honda dealership and all teh 4cyl Accords from '03 and up have converted to timing chains, so you're safe on that..............lucky ****.

Phew!! That was a close one.

That wouldve sucked having to dump $400 every 60,000 miles for a timing belt.

Never shouldve doubted ya John!

disneyjoe7

brettw22 wrote:

It is 60k miles.......not 90. Tune up's are 100k, but that's pretty standard on most cars nowadays.....

Sad newer cars have a timing belt change out earlier then older models 90k per my old car manual. I know I changed it once at 92k gave it too my 15 yr nephew who changed to next one one 196k. If it was 60k as hard as I drove it at times that engine should have been in a zillion pieces if it busted at 6500 rpm shift from second to third.


Other then that 100k tune ups are a joke too me anyway. I'm changing ignition parts way before this point. As far as the 100k antifreeze I traded that POS for a car that uses the 30k green change out stuff.

Jstas

Well, I never said it would break at 60K. Honda says to have it serviced at 60-80K because they can stretch and IIRC, the timing only has to be off by 2-3 degrees to cause a problem. That can happen when the belt stretches out. It's a big deal on any Honda engine that shares a similar block on the 4 bangers. Even the DOHC 1.8L "monsters" in the Type R Civic and Integra have the issue.

The reason it costs so much is that there is so much stuff bolted on infront of the timing set that it takes like 3 hours of work to get it all out of the way and the belt and tensioner pulled to replace. The belt is like 20 bucks and the tensioner is 60 IIRC again. The rest of the cost is labor.

However, if they switched to chains then chains don't stretch. They wear out but you are going to have to put hundreds of thousands of miles on the engine before it gets so worn that it wants to hop a tooth. That is unless Honda used nylon toothed gears to keep them quiet. Then you are probably going to have to get it serviced.


Oh and a tune-up does not include a timing set check. It includes a timing check which can tell you if the timing set is getting ready to check out but it doesn't include a physical inspection. Tune-ups usually entail a check on spark plugs, wires (if it has them), cap/rotor or points (if it has them, rare thing anymore), coil(s), timing setting, air filter, fuel filter, oil filter, oil change, grease joints, check/replace drive belts, check transmission fluid/oil, check/replace any other filters like cabin air filters, check coolant levels and maybe check brakes, rotate the tires and check lamps. Most mechanics will give the car a once over if it's in for something as simple as an oil change and make recommendations from there. I know I do.

Oh and just because the first scheduled tune-up isn't for 100,000 miles doesn't mean you can neglect it until then. The only thing that should last 100K is the spark plugs and even then I don't fully trust them.

exalted512

my g/f's honda has to get check ups at 10k, 20k, 30k, and 40k. All mandatory to keep the warranty, all cost at least $115 for the 10k and keep getting more expensive after that
-Cody

disneyjoe7

Jstas wrote:

The only thing that should last 100K is the spark plugs and even then I don't fully trust them.

By then I'm usually on my second set of plugs, a set of wires.


BTW you didn't mention but the water pump is replaced with the timing belt on Honda's.

audiobliss

PolkThug wrote:

Congrats on getting your nuts snipped. You'll have even more fun when you finally trade this car in for a mini van.

Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!!!!

MacLeod

I dont trust the 100K tune ups either. Never have.

Nothing was said to me either about regular checkups to keep my warranty! Maybe Id better go read the fine print of my manual.

I did look for a maintenance schedule in my manual and there isnt one. Theyve got this new thing called the "maintenance-minder" and you get idiot lights flashing on your instrument panel when its time to change stuff.

I think Ill stick to the old tried and true 3 months/3000 miles for oil.

I am going to have mine serviced at the Honda dealer from now on. Since Ive decided Im never going to try to keep a car forever like I did with my Ram, Im foregoing on the synthetic oil and filters. I believe there is no benefit of synthetic unless youre going to be wanting 200,000 miles out of your engine. Since Ill be ready to trade at about 110,000 by my calculations, Ill stick to the old fashioned way. Be a lot cheaper too! 5 qts of Penzoil (my favorite conventional) is $10. 5 qts of Mobil 1 (my favorite synthetic) is $25!

audiobliss

Yeah. I wouldn't put synthetic in that old rag, either!

avguytx

It may be sacreligious to say but you could always keep the stock deck by using something like the Rockford 3Sixty.2 and have TONS of control. I'm putting my stock deck back into my 2003 Ram so I can incorporate this unit in. You control it Bluetooth via PDA, a "smart phone" running Windows Mobile 5.0 or from a laptop with Bluetooth. Just an idea....

I had a 1998 Accord that I traded in for my Ram back in 2003. I think it had about 175,000 miles on it and still got 30mpg. Great car. I'm going to buy another one just for traveling.

MacLeod

audiobliss wrote:

Yeah. I wouldn't put synthetic in that old rag, either!

Hey now! No 'dissing the new ride.

It may be sacreligious to say but you could always keep the stock deck by using something like the Rockford 3Sixty.2 and have TONS of control. I'm putting my stock deck back into my 2003 Ram so I can incorporate this unit in. You control it Bluetooth via PDA, a "smart phone" running Windows Mobile 5.0 or from a laptop with Bluetooth. Just an idea....

You can use a 360 with an aftermarket deck. Actually thats a better way as youll have less noise.

Im going to try the LLC first. Schoshe makes a decent one. Ill try it and run RCA's to my Alpine 700. If I dont have too much hiss, Ill just keep it that way. Would make for a cleaner install too.....and less work for me!

Jstas

Synthetics aren't just for longevity. They have been shown to increase power and improve fuel mileage.

MacLeod

Thats true. I can attest to that. Owned a Suzuki Samurai with 66 hp for a while. With an engine that small, you notice any change no matter how small. Switched to Mobil 1 and my operating temp dropped dramatically!

Still, I think for an engine as well made as the Honda and for a car I dont plan on driving passed 120,000, conventional oil should be just fine.

I spent $40 on oil and Mobil 1 filters every 2 months for the 5 years I owned that Ram. Thats $1200 in oil changes when $450 wouldve done just as well.

exalted512

I'd def. look into the check ups for the warranty. My g/f is about to go in for her 40k mile check up and its supposed to be like $400...
-Cody

Thom

It's about time you got a Honda.

That new JBL piece (MS-8) looks bad ****, but won't be out for a while...

Thom

brettw22 wrote:

I guarantee you won't see 34mpg unless you drive it like a 90 year old and never shift over 1500 RPM's...........My 2001 Accord was rated for 26-32 and I usually always get about 25-27 and only on ONE tank of gas in the last 6 years did I get 30mpg. It's more likely you'll get mid to high 20's, which is still a hell of a lot better than you'd ever get out of the Ram......

I get 26- 28 mpg consistantly, in a '96 Civic with 145,000 on it. Automatic. And drive 80 or faster every chance I get.

The Accord might not get exactly what the sticker says, but I'd be surprised if it doesn't get better than 30 all the time...

KevinLWhitaker

Sorry to hear about your loss Mac, I feel your pain. I recently traded my beloved Toyota Tundra in for a (used) Honda Pilot.

I had my Tundra for over 4 years and almost 70K miles, it was my pride and joy. It still looked new and the the guy even wrote "nice truck" on the apprasial form at the dealer. Why did I get rid of it? My family. The wife got to the point that she did not want to have to drive it anymore (although that was not very often) and the kids had difficulty getting in and out of the back seat. Also, I was changing jobs and my new job requires a bit more driving. Finally, we needed a vehicle that could carry more than 4 or 5 people but couldn't bring ourselves to buying a van. Since I needed 4WD, the Pilot seemed to fit the bill.

Once nice thing about Hondas is that they have a high "fun to drive" quotient. I'm convinced that is why Car and Driver has put the Accord on the 10 best list for so many years (our other car is a 2000 Accord). So far the Pilot has exceeded my expectations and been both easier and more convienant to operate. I can park far easier, the kids get in and out far easier, and I don't worry about the wife not being able to drive it. Although my truck fed my ego better, my Pilot takes better care of me.

Good luck with your new car, you will enjoy it.

Thom

exalted512 wrote:

I'd def. look into the check ups for the warranty. My g/f is about to go in for her 40k mile check up and its supposed to be like $400...
-Cody

What do you need the warranty for? It's a Honda.

Isn't it against the law for dealers to tell you that they have to do all service? Magnuson- Moss act, I think? As long as maintenance is done, they can't fault you. They can't say that only they are capable of providing maintenance. The only vehicles I take to the dealer are Polk ones, and the F- 350 oil change is close to $100. Service check- ups are outrageous.

I had my Protege for 160,000+ miles and took it to the dealer once, for a simple recall. My Civic only goes to the dealer for things I don't feel like doing (oil pan gasket) or things I can't do. That 100,000 extended warranty my wife paid for when she bought the car was a complete waste of money. It's well past that point with no problems...

disneyjoe7

Not sure about that service thing myself, I never did any service of my old Honda at the dealer. About all service was done by me, I would have stuff like tires done. But tune ups timing belt water pumps brakes I did myself, I use a service place if I needed an opinion on an issue I had or if I didn't feel like doing something myself. But all routine service not done at dealer, that car is still on the road 214k or so.


BTW 214k on good old 10w-40 oil yes I know it says 5w-30 but I never put it in. Since then I use Amoils oils only in my cars, an Amsoil 5w-20 in the Honda and 5w-30 for my Toyota 4runner.

brettw22

Thom wrote:

I get 26- 28 mpg consistantly, in a '96 Civic with 145,000 on it. Automatic. And drive 80 or faster every chance I get.

The Accord might not get exactly what the sticker says, but I'd be surprised if it doesn't get better than 30 all the time...

My Accord is a stick and the weight difference between the two is pretty significant.

Better than 30 hasn't happened, which is why I will never ever in my life get a 4cyl again. I don't think I get any better gas mileage out of this 4cyl than I used to out of my '91 Maxima.

MacLeod

If Im not mistaken Brett, the pre 2003 Accords had a smaller, 2.3 SOHC engine with 135 hp with a 25/31 mileage rating. Mine is a bigger 2.4 liter DOHC making 166 hp and rated at 26/34.

This engine has plenty of power. Car and Driver did a test on it and it did 0-60 in 7.4 seconds I belive. Not too shabby. Dont get me wrong, this thing aint no dragster or nothing nor is it a match for a good V6 but for a 4 banger its extremely smooth and has plenty of power for me.

That extra power and displacement may mean better gas mileage. At least Im hoping so. So far Ive put 100 miles on it and its only used 1/4 tank. When I fill it up Ill let ya know what the average is but itll be mostly stop and go driving. If I can get 30 on the freeway and 25 around town, Ill be giggling like a school girl. Here is hoping.

I also read thru the warranty information. You dont have to go to the dealer to service your car and it wont void your warranty. However, if you do have something break you have to prove that it was maintained but simply presenting the receipts of your services will be plenty of proof.

My Honda dealer has an Express Service center besides the main service center which is specifially for oil changes and such. $26 and they guarantee youre out in 30 minutes. Thats a pretty good deal and I do trust dealers over general mechanics and definitely over $7/hr Instant Oil Change guys. Ill be getting mine serviced at the dealer from now on.

disneyjoe7

If you where not going to do your own maintenance oil changes and such, I wouldn't rely on the quick oil changes myself. So good call on the dealer doing the oil changes for ya.

MacLeod

Whats weird is that this will be the first car Ive ever owned that I didnt do my own oil changes. But Im just getting too fat to crawl up under this thing!!

The Ram was no problem. There was plenty of clearance and it was super easy! I could change the oil in the apartment parking lot in 15 minutes! Not gonna be the same with this Honda. Way too cramped for my big ****.

And with the dealer doing the servicing, if there should be a problem, theyll have no excuses! They did all the work!!

exalted512

"The following are examples of prohibited tie-in sales provisions.

In order to keep your new Plenum Brand Vacuum Cleaner warranty in effect, you must use genuine Plenum Brand Filter Bags. Failure to have scheduled maintenance performed, at your expense, by the Great American Maintenance Company, Inc., voids this warranty."
According to the act that Thom listed, thats illegal. I guess my g/f must have been mistaken that she had to get it done to keep the warranty, that or they told her she had to because shes a dumb blonde...who knows
-Cody

Jstas

disneyjoe7 wrote:

BTW 214k on good old 10w-40 oil yes I know it says 5w-30 but I never put it in. Since then I use Amoils oils only in my cars, an Amsoil 5w-20 in the Honda and 5w-30 for my Toyota 4runner.

Yes but you live in Florida where it's hot all the time and a 10W-40 will work out because it never gets cold enough to get too thick.

However, on newer cars, the 5W-30 and 5W-20 is needed because the engines are being built to higher tolerances and/or they run the lighter oils to get the fuel mileage numbers that they need. So if you want the car to perform the way the manufacturer said it should then use what they tell you to use.

disneyjoe7

Jstas wrote:

Yes but you live in Florida where it's hot all the time and a 10W-40 will work out because it never gets cold enough to get too thick.

I didn't always live in Florida I did live in **** Rhode Island for many years also, which is where I bought that 92 Accord Honda.


But all in all I agree with you more for thinner oil better gas mileage, but this is things don't always sit well with me. Honda uses a 5w-20 today where they used a 5w-30 once, Ford does the same. This was done for MPG and nothing else. Don't even open the can of worms on why Honda used it also with there high CAFE index.


BTW was pissed when my Acura TL-S uses a 5w-20 oil in it. I called Acura Customer Service and stated that 5w-20 oil I would never use even if the rod bearing where roller bearings, And I should have bought the BMW 330i I seen also since they uses OIL not 3 and 1 oil. My feelings have changed a little since then but that what I said 2 yrs ago.

MacLeod

Whats wrong with 5W20?

And the Acura TL is about my favorite car. A big reason I was so drawn to the Accord is that its the TL's little brother.

disneyjoe7

MacLeod wrote:

Whats wrong with 5W20?

Well I feel nothing right now, I felt strong enough at first about it I used a 5w-30 in the Acura V6 but feel it too think for this engine at high rev's. But I drive a car hard and was at first afraid of engine damage if oil was too thin. People over on Bobstheoilguy.com stated and convinced me 5w-20 was fine for this engine. There are engine Geeks like we're audio Geeks.

Jstas

Ford's newer engines are using the 5W-20 because they built them to very tight tolerances. When they first switched to 5W-20 it was because of fuel economy ratings. The newer mod-motors (4.6, 5.4 and 6.8L engines) use the 5W-20 because of those tolerances. The new 4 bangers are using it too as will the new Duratec V6. They are a bit beyond using it for a fuel economy standard now. Then again, Ford picked up on something with the Mod-motors. They are built to such high tolerances that it is not uncommon to see vans, trucks, CV's and anything else with a 4.6 or 5.4 V8 in running 250K, 350K and even 400K miles without any major work. Infact, I just worked on a van two weeks ago. It was a '96 E-350 with with 328,000 miles on the odometer. It had been through 3 alternators, 4 starters, a radiator and 5 batteries and has yet to have a problem with the engine. The oilpan gasket rotted out at 296,000 miles but given that it's spent most of its life on construction sites covered in mud, I can see that being a problem.



As far as what's wrong with 5W-20, nothing. It's not quite machine oil or 3in1 oil. It's a good deal thicker than that. I've used 5W-20 in my truck from the start of it's life and changed to full synthetics from AMSOIL as soon as I could. The last two oil changes were Mobil1 and I don't like it. I'm going back to AMSOIL. It's $45 an oil change but the stuff never came out burned. Even if I left it in there for 8,000 miles. The truck ran it's best on the AMSOIL and even put down it's rated power at the wheels on the AMSOIL. It hasn't done anything like that with the Mobil1 and last change, it was black and stunk. Shows you what I get for trying to save a buck.

MacLeod

Lookee what I found!

I can use this adapter to stick a HU in the pocket under the HVAC controls for $30:



Or I can replace the whole thing with this adapter complete with HVAC controls for $150!



Hmmm, now to decide which to do. Would be a good theft deterent. Leave the factory HU in there and have my Alpine in the pocket. When I got out of the car I could close the pocket and you couldnt see nuttin'.

audiobliss

Hmm, that's a hard decision.