What is wrong with this forum?

dorokusai

This forum has lost touch with reality as 200wpc has become a banner, and its simply not true. There are too many variables to just drop that broad idea on any given situation, to a new poster...as an example.

There are ppl that exist in this hobby that get off on what there respective Sony, Denon or Yamaha does in regards to sound reproduction, but if they post here, it's off to the races. If someone asks about two SPECIFIC things, he'll get 30 suggestions as to why his choices suck. How helpful is that?

I understand full well that you should help educate and point folks in the right direction but I've read threads about QUALITY brands VS...and it turns into a big clusterF of useless babble.

I've also read here that it was questioned why the more senior members have not been involved so much lately....maybe they have moved "beyond" the forum...that's ridiculous. I personally think its about time that some newer members take charge and handle business here, as how do you expect members to grow and assist others if its the same old, disgruntled a$$holes(ME) posting all the time?

I've taken a step back from general populace because I'm not happy here anymore.

If you have some thoughts or comments, post them, speak up.

szhleppy

All good points Doro....

Although I've been here a few years, I still consider myself a "newer" member. I use this forum as my main source of information...whether it is for the vintage side or whether HD-DVD or BluRay is the best choice. Sure, I wander to other sites for more specific info, but this is generally the most grounded and insightful place to go.

So even though conflicts happen frequently here, they are often more "mature" conflicts...and also run their course more quickly.

I guess what I'm saying is that we all like to **** and think that the grass is greener...but in the end, we all congregate here whether we like it or not.

ohskigod

sometimes, one has to step back from this hobby and realize that its only a frikkin stereo.

whenever I give advice or guidance, its allways with the concept of getting the most for one's money. If the budget is tiny, then one should get the best sound that wee budget can buy, hell, I still love the hell out my Rogers LS6's (200.00) hooked up to a sonic impact T amp (whopping 25.00 bucks)

I've listened to big buck rigs I've liked (yours), and ones I didnt (heard a pair of Wilson Audio Watt Puppy's, oddly enough, not impressed). I allways liked club polk for the relative lack of Audio snobbery, but it will allways exist. I never let it bother me. Got a better stereo than me? Hey, thats nice, more power to ya.

reverse snobbery exists too, i.e. "your retarded for spending 100,000 on a stereo". hey man, that money is his or her business. In my eyes, its better than spending it on hookers and blow :rolleyes:

I call **** like I see it, If I think someone is giving bad advise, I will call it at the time and put my .02 cents in. Mark, I expect you to do the same. It looks like you've summed up alot of activity on the forum and put a summation reponse into one post, I say call out someone who says something you dont agree with at the time they say it. Why let anger build?

example, dude 1 says "unless you got 200 watts per channel, your **** sucks ****" one could respond "ever hear of a vacuum tube?". see, dude 1 said something terribly stupid, I say call him on it at the time.

As much as F1nut can come off as grumpy, he follows the above theory to a T, thats why I respect the guy. Dont allways agree with him, but I respect him. I'm a big proponent of an open exchange of ideas, hence when someone has an opinion I dont agree with, I respecfully explain that I have a different opinion

example

dude 1 "Carver sucks" (sound familiar? )

my response "eh, whatever, I like my Carver"

I dont take this stuff too seriously, neither should anyone else.

dorokusai

Szhleppy - Thanks for being the leader, or goat, depending on how you look at the thread but thanks for posting first.

I also believe that this is the most mature of forums, and there are many. You should always seek information elsewhere and that's healthy in this business.

Rock on!

dorokusai

OSG - That's a solid comment, as folks need to take a step back from their good/bad choices and respond in an informed way...not because of a singular bad experience or choice. There is TOO much out there to get segmented into something forever.

Lou - I can't handle the rhetoric enough to handle bad information anymore, I'm just tired of reading it and move on. If it's crazy, I'll post but most of the forum is savvy and aware, so I put my faith in those soldiers.

I try not to comment directly about anything that I haven't actually heard first-hand. This hobby is way too subjective to pin down ANYTHING really, but at least ownership means something as it reflects in-house to me.

It's not about finding your niche, it's about having an informed experience. If all you have is magazine reviews and a local hi-fi shop, that's not much of an opinion to me.

FYI....count me in the anti-Carver

TroyD

Well, as far as threads getting derailed, it's sort of the nature of the beast. It happens and I'm as guilty as the next guy.

At the end of the day, though, you have to wade through the posts and make your own evaluation of what's useful information and what isn't and just sort of ingore the distortion.

As far as the senior member thing, well, I mean, in my case, there's only so many opinions I can have and so many times I can express them. No reflection on anything other than sometimes I just don't have as much of an opinion (other than a smartass comment). Plus, a lot of the new gear, I just don't have the experience or desire to know. I've sorta hit my niche with my gear. I've found the sound I've been looking for. My days of gear hoarding and wholesale changes in sound are, for the most part, things of the past.

Plus, I think the collective knowlege level is a LOT higher now than it used to be. There's a lot of technical conversations that I, personally, just don't have the clout to weigh in on.

In the grand scheme of things, I think that the kumbya factor is about as high on the forum as it ever has been. I sort miss ol' Cliff though.

BDT

aaharvel

this is the only forum i've ever gone to; this place is still cool to me. I'm more of a spectator now and like it that way. :cool:

ohskigod

TroyD wrote:

I sort miss ol' Cliff though.

BDT

we all have our guilty pleasures I suggest hanging a punching bag in your garage, you'll still get to beat on something, and burn calories at the same time

danger boy

Of course there are things wrong with this forum and all others on the internet.

basically.. some people have outgrown it. Some have matured since they first signed up.. and now are looking for more.. more what you ask? More excitement in this hobby and in turn this forum.

This forum hasn't really changed much.. we have. We have set rules.. pissed off alot of newbies, learned some thing, met and make some lifelong friends.. but with any marriage or friendship.. people change. Sometimes for the better.. and sometimes not.

I guess alot of people try and keep grounded in this hobby we all enjoy.. but at what expense? Is it ok if this forum/hobby takes to much time away from your family? Is it ok if this hobby costs you to much $ just because member 123 has a better pre amp than you do?

When and where do you reach the limit and sit back and say.. enough is enough? I guess like anything.. when a person becomes obsessive with some thing.. then maybe it's time for a change. I certainly can see becoming obsessive in here and other parts of my/our lives. That's when it becomes damaging to yourself and those around you.

So with that said... maybe some people are just tired of the sameness that this forum brings.. and are looking for the next big yet undiscovered forum.. whereby they can learn and teach again.

If this makes sense.. raise your hand.

mrbigbluelight

Doro, I definitely don't feel an "elitist" attitude around here.
There are disagreements, to be sure, some even evolve into arguments, and a few evolve/devolve into almost WWIII (:o ).

But that's the beauty of Club Polk. For the most part, stuff stays on topic and the answers are pretty responsive to the questions.
Newbies (of whom I still consider myself one) appear to be treated very well, with respect for their question(s).
An example would be the guy/gal who just got a set of "R" series Polks and asks something about "What wire should I get ? Is 22-gauge good enough ?".
While fellow newbies respond with "12 gauge" or "10 gauge", some of the more experienced may bring up the topic of cables. When they do, though, I've never felt it's with a "Oh, you stupid SOB ! It's R60's AT LEAST with (fill in the blank with high priced IC's) or else you'll burn in hell !".

Some of you "old, disgruntled a$$holes" may have equipment listed in your signatures, or mentioned in your posts, that makes me want to spank myself
( ), but it never makes me dissatisfied with what I have.
When I read in one of the threads about some high end equipment and saw that dude holding a tube the size of a 30 lb ham, I slobbered all over the keyboard (made quite a mess; still waiting for Cfrizz to send me a new keyboard, btw ). I thought how awesome that must be , than later on, we watched "Grandma's Boy" on our HT rig powered by an Onkyo AV and
ATHENA AS-P4000 subwoofer, and it was all good !

One of the reasons I post the gear I have in my sig (and without fear of contradiction, it isn't bleeding edge) is to show just that:

"IT'S ALL GOOD !!


I don't get a sense that you old fogeys (:) ) are setting the bar too high
(ie, "at least 200 wpc or you're a moron").
Now, I'm not the most sensitive cabbage in the patch, so maybe I'm missing it, but I'd have to say that it's a nice blend of high end / intro end , with no real slamming of one by the other.

So ..... what was the question again ?

Nice to see a CPer expressing concern over the flow of the forum, though.

BTW, I imagine after Christmas, we'll see a new batch of faces around here as "kids" open their "presents".

F1nut

What is wrong with this forum?

Not a thing. It ebbs and flows, much like life, yet in the end it's just an internet site and if one takes it too seriously or becomes unhappy being here there may be something out of balance elsewhere. This will never be a perfect place as perfection is unattainable.

Rock on and Merry Christmas!
Grumpy

TroyD

On a side note.....Mark, Wadia?? Do tell man, do tell.

BDT

Libertyc

Ditto what F1 said. Everything goes in cycles, so just go with the flow.

Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays everyone.

halo

danger boy wrote:

If this makes sense.. raise your hand.

Makes sense to me DB.

When I showed up I thought I knew what I was doing. I got put in my place fast but I didn't run away. I realized I didn't know ****. I also realized that I wanted to learn so I apologized for my behavior and I started to get my learn on (heck I'm still learning) and I think I've come a long way (in a short time) since then.

I usually don't post unless I have something to contribute. I don't read any hi-fi magazines and I don't frequent local hi-fi shops. I can only give advice if its something I've had personal hands on experience with. Otherwise I don't feel I have any business typing a response. I don't try to act PC but I try to be real and straight forward. I've been accused of being blunt but I honestly am trying to be polite and respectful because I remember what it was like to be a newb (I still am in a lot of respects). I value and respect a lot of people on this, as well as other, forum(s). And then there are some that I don't care for at all. Such is life. It doesn't mean I'm not able to contribute or learn from either group. I try to check my ego @ the door. I'm not perfect and sometimes I slip (just the way it goes).

If it weren't for the time and effort put out in one way or another by almost everyone on this forum - a few in particular - I wouldn't be where I am today in regards to this hobby (which is pretty happy ).

Am I done? No. Got a long way to go and a lot left to learn.

Whenever I step away from this forum its because I'm diggin' my stuff and I'm spending time with it instead of the computer. Plain & Simple.

TroyD

BTW, Halo, man, I owe you an email in regards to ChiPF. I've just been a slacker, man. I'll get on it.

BDT

halo

TroyD wrote:

BTW, Halo, man, I owe you an email in regards to ChiPF. I've just been a slacker, man. I'll get on it.

BDT

No worries. We got plenty of time. All advice is appreciated & welcome

halo

Almost forgot - MERRY CHRISTMAS EVERYONE!

hearingimpared

I'm a newbie here and don't know jack about most things. I've been out of this game since 1990 and just got back in this past June. I've really caught up on this hobby of ours very quickly and still have a lot to learn all because of this place RIGHT HERE.

My wife says she is a Polk Audio Forum widow. That little bit of wisdom spoken by DB a few posts up made me realize I better spend more time with her or she ain't going to be around long . . . see I learned something else from this place.

If it weren't for the "old, disgruntled a$$holes" who welcomed me and helped me with everything and anything I've asked help on, audio or not, I wouldn't be so happy with all things audio as I am AGAIN now as well as some other things in life.

Mark to answer your question, "What is wrong with this forum?", as far as I'm concerned not a damned thing. I just remain teachable and I enjoy everthing here.

Edit: I forgot a very important thing. . . I've made a whole slew of contacts and new friends on this site and in this area. We meet a couple of times a month and they have actually helped me to move into my new home and have given me cables to help build my system etc, etc, etc. Hey no one knows better than YOU how people like you and Troy and Shack and many others have come to my aid in my distress over possibly losing a record collection. . . Mark I would say there is absolutely NOTHING wrong here. From my point of view this place is awesome.

EDIT: There is a sense of family here and like all familys there are arguments and disagreements and as with family there is an incredible sense of humor that feeds naturally off each other. I can't speak of the things you are talking about as an older member Mark. . . I'm a 51 year old new guy who loves audio, loves Polk products, and loves this site and am not afraid to post my opinion and admit when I am wrong or even make myself look like an **** from a knee jerk reactions. I'm not afraid to post personal things such as spiritual beliefs or even personal problems. Heck when I have posted personal problems I got nothing but support from the members of this forum. I don't know my friend, I still don't see anything wrong here.

TroyD

excellent point though......

Much as I like you chuckleheads......I like my wife's company MUCH more. The trick is to make sure she knows that.

BDT

Joey_V

This forum gives me a straight answer at times, and other times it ends up back in the "cables". And as far as the level of audio snobbery in this forum, I've seen it pop its head several times. That said, this forum has the most karma and member-member help-outs I've seen in any forum, and this is a great place because of that.

It's a cool forum, no doubt. Yet atleast for me, it's not the same as years past.... dont know why.

Joey

cambir

dorokusai wrote:

I try not to comment directly about anything that I haven't actually heard first-hand. This hobby is way too subjective to pin down ANYTHING really, but at least ownership means something as it reflects in-house to me.

It's not about finding your niche, it's about having an informed experience. If all you have is magazine reviews and a local hi-fi shop, that's not much of an opinion to me.

dorokusai wrote:

I personally think its about time that some newer members take charge and handle business here, as how do you expect members to grow and assist others if its the same old, disgruntled a$$holes(ME) posting all the time?

I think some of the newbies would love to be able "take charge" and contribute more, but it rolls back to your own comment of "ownership" and "having an informed experience." I, as a newbie, have not owned enough gear to give advice on most. If I have an opinion or do know from experience, I will try to help someone have an "informed experience." Just hard yo do as a newbie.

The forum is still an excellent source of info, even if you do have to pick through some garbage now and then.

Fireman32

I dont think anything is wrong with this forum. I am still brand new in this hobby and have alot to learn. Everyone on this forum has there opinion and there entitled to it. There are some threads that I read that I choose not to get involved in but overall I have learned alot from everyone here. I have to agree with what Joey V said as this place has the most karma and member helpouts i've ever seen. I've met alot of the members at Polkfest this year and look foward to meeting more of you in the future. As far as 200 WPC... I dont have anywhere near that. I'm running 8WPC and if I want I can knock the plaster off of the walls. (thanks Lou) I would love to contribute more in helping out but my knowledge is not there yet. As I learn more I will give my advice to the best of my ability.

Polk65

• Lurkers ( get off the fence and post more often than once a month/year/century. If you are spent take a break. )
  Grumpy's post awhile ago made me realize that I needed a timeout. A couple of weeks later I felt refreshed and jumped back in.
• +1... ( how about adding something to the discussions other than your post count? )
• I don't know but someone will answer your question. ( see above. )
• I'm going to argue just to argue.
• I had my attitude checked once but I've forgotten about it. My opinion is correct.
• I'm a professional (blah-blah) so my answer is the only correct one.

Would I enjoy having 200+wpc high current amps? Yeah baby! I would also dig a blonde remote control and living in a rural area where I could loosen them both up regularly. Dorko, your posts about checking other pastures and gear is valid and appreciated. I've found my nirvana with the sound from Polk Audio speakers so other gear is next.

What is right with this forum?
More than what is wrong.

george daniel

WE were all FNG's at one point in time.I have looked back at some of my first posts and thought,,,that was stupid,,why did I say that? Answer,,lack of experience and knowledge.With that said,, if it were not for this forum,I would not have the gear and knowledge that I have today. People from all walks of life (most I've never met) have helped me with equipment aquisition,crossovers,CABLES,tubes,etc. I have never had a second thought about sending money to another member for an item.There seems to be a unwritten law,,a code of ethic's that is native to this forum.Even though I've never met most of you,I feel as that I know you. There are some very "kind hearted people" on this forum,and it serves as a cornocopia of knowledge,it serves me as great resource,and has also been a great education as well, that I could not have gotten otherwise. When I first joined,I was reluctant to post,mainly due to ignorance,etc.I think that the newer folks will contribute as they become more aquainted with the place.

AS for the senior members,,,you can't buy experience,and the experience that you impart to others is appreciated and reconized.You guys have steered me around a few "holes".

Thanks,
Nuff Said--george

EDIT; This place has Class and Originality,,,that the words that I wanted to use,,,,as in Hunter Thompson, played by Bill Murray in "Where the buffalo roam"

johnADA

dorokusai wrote:

There are ppl that exist in this hobby that get off on what there respective Sony, Denon or Yamaha does in regards to sound reproduction, but if they post here, it's off to the races. If someone asks about two SPECIFIC things, he'll get 30 suggestions as to why his choices suck. How helpful is that?

I understand full well that you should help educate and point folks in the right direction but I've read threads about QUALITY brands VS...and it turns into a big clusterF of useless babble.

I've also read here that it was questioned why the more senior members have not been involved so much lately....maybe they have moved "beyond" the forum...that's ridiculous. I personally think its about time that some newer members take charge and handle business here, as how do you expect members to grow and assist others if its the same old, disgruntled a$$holes(ME) posting all the time?

First off I've been on many forum types since 1998 and even owned my own for 6 years.
All forums today are losing their luster per say and its due to a few things.
One older members have moved beyond the forums and its not ridiculous as you say.
It gets old hat in a hurry when you post the same answers, to the same freaking questions just so many times. Worst, better, best is the worst question which has no real solid answers, to ask, its too subjective. This becomes a debate area where tempers flare and leads to the useless babble you stated.
Then others are so dead set in their subjectiveness I'll call it they cant stand back with and open mind. Its this way or the highway and will defend themselves with no regard.
Newbies are treated like second class citizens, but are they really newbies all the time??? Some have just found the net, forums etc and arent accepted fully until and oldie likes what he posts since it defends his subjectiveness. And I dont mean just one oldie, I mean the forum as a whole.
Then you have trolls, people that are just plain bored and cruise forums looking, reading and poking for that soft spot.This gets the oldies the worst because they can pinpoint them for the most part and attack viscously making themselves look like asses to others.
Then the final kicker, Admins, Moderators etc that dont enforce, enforce equally the forum rules. Oldies get away with down right murder and newbies or lower posters DO NOT!!!

I'll give you and examples that happened to me.
Another forum I was on, that is based upon the Pursuing the Truths to Audio & Video, the Admin had done a piece on the new Internet Explorer that came out.
I had posted very nicely why in the first place would he do such a thing, since that forum has nothing to do with this topic.
Then has posted again nicely, why someone with his stature and knowledge of electronics gadgets would he used Microsoft in the first place. I mean with all that knowledge and allowing his forum to blast Bose to death would he use a Bose like product.
I didnt get banned, but he reset my stuff to time out when I posted. He added a title under my name that said, talks with mouth open and dont listen. No warning via email, PM other any other means as to what nerve I may have touched, nothing but a childish act. I guess my donation to the forum and my post count wasnt enough!!!!!!
The forums have become just a hangout of clicks!!!!

W WALDECKER

I think that overall Club Polk is OK as is.Advice from Senior guys like Doro (Mark) ,F1 (Jesse), Madmax, and Russman Etc.... has all been very helpful to me at one point or another in my Audio journey. sometimes there are disputes but usually we can agree to disagree and move on. i try to give advice to other members from time to time.i agree with Mark that it is time for some of the newer members to step up to the plate. thanks....WCW III

Early B.

dorokusai wrote:

This forum has lost touch with reality as 200wpc has become a banner, and its simply not true. There are too many variables to just drop that broad idea on any given situation, to a new poster...as an example.

FWIW -- I agree with the 200 wpc threshold for HT based on experience. I started with a couple of low budget 100 wpc amps, and they didn't have the same sonic impact or sound quality that the 200 wpc amps had that I subsequently tried.

Usually, the new poster is a guy on a budget. Sure, there are tons of great amps out there less than 200 wpc, but you're gonna have to spend a lot more money for a high quality one as opposed to getting a used 200 wpc Acurus or Rotel or Parasound for $500, or a set of Outlaw monoblocks for less than that.

So I don't have a problem recommending to newbies to get at least 200 wpc for their HT systems, particularly for their fronts and center channel. I wish someone would have told me that when I was just starting out. If so, I wouldn't have wasted my time experimenting with low cost, low powered amps.

That's my opinion, and the purpose of this forum is to share opinions and experiences. All of us seem to do that pretty well.

amulford

Get a life you nerds...

del44

amulford wrote:

Get a life you nerds...

This is one of the reasons I frequently visit this forum. HUMOR! It's like you all know each other. Some funny stuff going on. I don't give out much advice because I don't want to give the wrong advice.

opus

Problem? Does CP have a problem? Yea maybe, I don't know. I sure hate to see when a guy with one post ask for advice on how to hook up his r15's and ends up getting "lectured" about the benefits of 200 wpc and seperates.

Not to get all zen on your **** but I try to make it a better place by making myself better and by doing a few simple things.

A. Never apologize for my gear or make someone else feel bad about what they have.
1. Never make reccomendations based on hype, magazine reviews or brand name only. If I aint heard it why would I open my mouth. And if the only reciever I ever owned was a Yamaha I stf up when someone asks for a reciever reccomendation.
B. When some newbie wants to upgrade I ask him why. Such a simple question but bigger and more expensive isn't always the right choice.
C. And if I can do something nice for someone I do. Several legends have helped me out , let me sample gear, and have just flat out given me stuff so I hope to pass it on. If we can keep the forum a place to share and not just argue it will all work out

TheReaper

As a frequent lurker and occasional poster, I feel there is a lot more that is "right" with this forum, then what is wrong. There is a lot of helpfull advice given, as well as some very entertaining posts.

Here are my thoughts on some topics:

- Slamming someone elses post. I have been guilty of this, as well as some others. If a post is off or wrong, it is friendlier to ignore it and continue with correct information.

- The high-end versus low-end. I consider the 2-channel forum the high-end haven, and the others being mixed. Being low-end I usually only post in the 2-channel forum when I think I have something to add, or to just erk someone

- The great cable debate. If you don't want to be a snob about high end/price cables, articulate the differance in sound a particular cable has. Also, advice on cables should be in line with the system. If a person has a reciever with entry level speakers, then advice like John K gives IS appropriate. If a person is building a mid to higher end system, then more exotic cables can be appropriate. Outside of giving advice, the great cable debate is very entertaining and a lot of fun (much like arguing religion and politics).