First 2 hours of TAD-60

fredv

What a bummer.
Yup, vocals were what impressed me when I first heard. The DQ-10's are not efficient, very musical but no ****. That might be why I didn't notice much change in dynamic, or my ears are getting old :-)

halo

I just wanted to chime in and thank Fred again for upgrading to the mono's so I could get the last package deal on the TAD-60.

I am loving this amp! It is nowhere near burned in yet but it sounds fantastic. Thanks to Rich, Norm, and Fred I ordered it with a full set of JJ tubes installed by Paul. I had to re-do the bias (which he suggests you check after the first 20 mins anyway) and it was super easy thanks to the included volt meter. I haven't played with the feedback too much yet - maybe after it burns in all the way.

I don't know what you guys are talking about as far as a lack of bass response in regards to this amp - it has plenty of slam imo.

The detail is amazing. I'll try triode mode in the near future - hopefully the Von's will handle it.

To anyone out there thinking about getting into a tube amp it doesn't get much better than this (especially at this price point). Paul is great to deal with. Just like Rich, I ordered mine on Wednesday and Paul had it ready for me by Friday afternoon - complete with upgraded tubes and the APC (I love that thing!). The packaging is top notch. Communications are darn near instantaneous. Talk about customer service!

fredv

My brother came to listen to the TAD-60 this afternoon. I showcase him the features and how
good his KT88's sound in my amp. After all was done, he asked, "Can I try it at home?"
What else could I answer? He delivered 2 quads of KT88 for me to try when I asked him.
Afterall, he is my brother!! Now the Mac and the Eico HF-87 are back to the line up, but the
CDs/vinyls just don't sound the same anymore....

W WALDECKER

Congradulations to all of you on the purchase of both the TAD-60 and the TAD-1000 monoblocks.fine looking amplifiers indeed!i have been toying with the idea of trying a tube power amplifier in my two channel rig and seeing what you guys are getting for your money just fuels the flames even more.thanks...WCW III

halo

Just bought a set of the Chinese "Coke Bottle" 6L6GC's from Paul (link) to roll in the amp. I set the bias at 350 (Paul recommended) and started to let them burn in. Had about an hour on them last night before shutting everything down. They were on for about an hour today before one of the tubes let go. Replaced the fuse and the blown tube only to have the new one die 20 minutes later - yes I re-biased all the tubes.

I don't recommend trying 6L6GC'S in this amp. Neither does Paul (anymore). I was the beta (in the field) tester.

fredv

Halo wrote:

Just bought a set of the Chinese "Coke Bottle" 6L6GC's from Paul (link) to roll in the amp. I set the bias at 350 (Paul recommended) and started to let them burn in. Had about an hour on them last night before shutting everything down. They were on for about an hour today before one of the tubes let go. Replaced the fuse and the blown tube ony to have the new one die 20 minutes later - yes I re-biased all the tubes.

I don't recommend trying 6L6GC'S in this amp. Waste of $50 IMHO.

Brave soul, man!!! Tell Paul that the Coke Bottles are junk. If you still have a few more coins to spend, try this http://www.tubesandmore.com/new/scripts/silverware.exe/moreinfo@d:/dfs/elevclients/cemirror/ELEVATOR.FXP?item=T-6550-ST-CHINA
$16.95 each.

halo

Thanks Fred. How do they sound? What else have you rolled? Impressions?

I like the look and the mids and highs were fantastic. Seemed like they had less bass - maybe it just wasn't as boomy as the 77's?

Haven't tried the Svetlanas yet so I'll give them a roll for now.

I have to but more fuses - none left and he gave me two extra with the 6L6GC's. He said that running the 6L6GC (regardless of manufacturer) is a risk in the TAD's.

fredv

I have tried the "Chinese Philips 6550". I only tried the Valve Art 6550A (again China) which I described the sound as KT77 in steroid. The new (> year 2001) Svetlana's are very much Sovtek. I rolled them out and put in some JJ E34L and don't plan to put the Svets back any time soon. For around $52, you can also have a quad of E34L shipped from www.tubedepot.com.

halo

fredv wrote:

Valve Art 6550A (again China) which I described the sound as KT77 in steroid.

Is that good or bad?

fredv wrote:

put in some JJ E34L and don't plan to put the Svets back any time soon.

So this is your favorite out of everything?

I might give them Chinese 6550 or Tung Sol 6550 a try. Maybe even the Ei KT-90.

fredv

Halo wrote:

Is that good or bad?So this is your favorite out of everything?

The Valve Art's are more dynamic but sound less tubey. There are more extended
highs as well as bass. When I replaced the Mac with the TAD-60, I missed the sand
amp's brute force and found the 6550 narrow the gap quite a bit. I am not for the
classic warm tube sound. For the TAD-60, I prefer the 6550 to the KT77 for it's
SS like behavior. Since I had a few quads of tubes (EH 6CA7, JJ E34L, KT77,
ValveArt 6550A, SED KT88) prior to my TAD purchases and itched to roll some tubes
to the TAD-1000, I ordered a quad of JJ E34L to start tube rolling for the low cost. I was
very impressed by how the E34L sounded in the monos. For the monos, that's my favorite as I only have 2 sets to choose from. I didn't get a chance to try the E34L on the TAD-60
before my brother kidnapped it.

I might give them Chinese 6550 or Tung Sol 6550 a try. Maybe even the Ei KT-90.

I have read rave reviews of the TS 6550. It is definitely on my to-roll list. The
TAD-1000 are good from sheer power's perspective, but at the time to try new tubes,
it is a big pain in the pocket .............

Tubes do drift and wear in different rate. The ability of biasing each tube individually
is really a great feature.

halo

He said the Chinese "Coke Bottles" are good in the TAD-1000's. Double check with him. If it's true give them a try - the mids are amazing.

fredv

I have pretty open ventilation. I can feel warmer when I am within 3 feet (3-4 degree higher than the room temp). I did use those non-contact thermometer to measure the temp, the EL34's were about 220, the PT was about 120, the OT's were 80's. However, it is quite a bit lower with the tube cage on.

halo

The "Coke Bottle" tubes caused my TAD-60 a tad bit of indigestion. A resistor in the PS was smoked and on it's way to opening (I kept hearing a clicking noise when I first turned on the amp). Paul's excellent CS to the rescue. After some troubleshooting (via Paul's instructions by email) he finaly told me to bring it on in for service. A couple of hours later and an email explaining the problem arrived. I'll pick it up on Monday, all freshened up (he even cleaned the pins on my "Cleartop" U7's!). I purchased a set of Tung Sol 6550's from Paul too. He's installing them and will run it all day tomorrow.

fredv

That's one hell of CS - repair and return in 2 days in a weekend. Of course, it can only be beneficial to someone like the 3 musketeers in his backyard :-)
How do you like the clear top? The CT really opens up the bass after I replaced the EH U7's. When you get the amp back, please post your opinion of the TS. Quite frankly, I will pass the 6L6 and save the dough for the TS.

halo

fredv wrote:

That's one hell of CS - repair and return in 2 days in a weekend. Of course, it can only be beneficial to someone like the 3 musketeers in his backyard :-)
How do you like the clear top? The CT really opens up the bass after I replaced the EH U7's. When you get the amp back, please post your opinion of the TS. Quite frankly, I will pass the 6L6 and save the dough for the TS.

hehe...Three muskateers I like that The clear top is cool. I've also tried Raytheon and National Electronics. All were better than the stock EH. I'm waiting on some Ei elite 12AU7 & 12AX7. Looking forward to the comparison.

halo

Just got it back. Paul installed the Tung Sol 6550 tubes. In my best Bart Simpson "Wuh hu hu ho man!" You guys have got to try these. If you don't like them I'll (probably) buy them from you.

fredv

Halo wrote:

Just got it back. Paul installed the Tung Sol 6550 tubes. In my best Bart Simpson "Wuh hu hu ho man!" You guys have got to try these. If you don't like them I'll (probably) buy them from you.

I was impressed even with the Valve Art, the TS can only be better. I suppose your KT77's won't generate heat any time soon The Von's must love the 6550!!

Normanality

Good to hear Victor. I'll keep them 6550's in mind.

Right now, I don't want to change anything. I've finally achieved my personal nirvana, and I don't want to risk anything.

organ

Sounds like you guys are having a blast. Awesome!
Don't forget the Mullard re-issue EL34. They run about $80 a quad but they sound damn good. The warmest, creamiest and smoothest EL34 tube I've heard to date.

Sean,
How big is your PC room? A quad of EL34 output tubes generate a lot of heat.

halo

organ wrote:

Don't forget the Mullard re-issue EL34. They run about $80 a quad but they sound damn good. The warmest, creamiest and smoothest EL34 tube I've heard to date.

I asked for Paul's advice on a variety of tubes. This is what he said about those tubes organ: "Another twin is the S logo Svetlana EL-34 & the new Mullard EL-34. Identical, same line production, only the internal structure is mounted 180 degrees around, otherwise identical glass, bases & internal guts. Priced 3X more for the Mullard. Quality record observed is about the same." The Svetlana S logo 88's are supposedly "bulletproof".

organ

Halo,
That's what I thought at first as well. It took me almost a year to purchase it since it was introduced. I own all the New Sensor EL34, EL34EH, 6CA7EH and both versions of Svetlana.
Yes, the internal looks very similar. The plates on the mullard are slightly darker colored. The glass envelopes are completely different but I think is similar in diameter. The tip on the svetlana curve out while the ones on the Mullard are the opposite. Top caves in.

The "S" logo Svet is my least favorite EL34. Too much mids and a little bright. The Mullard, however, is the complete opposite. Even warmer sounding than the St. Petersburg (SED) EL34. It's my favorite EL34. There are a lot of threads on audioasylum about this tube and the results seems to be consistent. This is from thetubestore.com... "Compared to the New Sensor Corp. Svetlana which has a rather strident midrange, the new Mullard EL34 has been considerably smoothed. The overall sound is more balanced and very warm. This is great news for people with something like a Marshall since they are inherently midrangey. The low mids are nicely balanced to prevent any boomy tone."

The "S" Svetlana is similar in character to the EL34EH, but I like the EH a lot more.

The quality is "bulltproof" along with all the other tubes from New Sensor.

SCompRacer

Normanality wrote:

Right now, I don't want to change anything. I've finally achieved my personal nirvana, and I don't want to risk anything.

I'll second that. I'll duplicate his entire system to get it, if I have to, cause it is that good. Only thing I know so far is there is an audible difference between MIT S1 and MIT S3 IC's. What the other difference is I haven't found yet, but we are working on it.

fredv

SCompRacer wrote:

I'll second that. I'll duplicate his entire system to get it, if I have to, cause it is that good. Only thing I know so far is there is an audible difference between MIT S1 and MIT S3 IC's. What the other difference is I haven't found yet, but we are working on it.

Trade the TAD-1000's for 2 TAD-60's

SCompRacer

fredv wrote:

Trade the TAD-1000's for 2 TAD-60's

I just might take you up on that Fred. I thought you only had one TAD-60 though.:D

Norm brought one of his TAD-60's over Sunday and we used it in place of the Innersound bass amp. (The Innersound internal bass amp can be switched off and there are RCA outs from the active crossover to connect an external bass amp). Just like at his place, deep, articulate, extended, reach out to you bass. The problem is with the higher output monos on the panels, it is hard to strike a perfect balance between the two. The more I dial down the feedback and volume on the monos to get that balance, the dynamics of the panels falls off. Cranking up the bass any higher results in boomy bass.

We tried the TAD-1000's on the bass and the TAD-60 on the panels, and again, it was difficult to achieve that perfect balance. Two more TAD-1000's would be ideal, but I would need quite a rack for all that gear. So it appears the best option may be to follow Norm and use two TAD-60's.

We are going to experiment with speaker cables and IC's cause I don't get the magic he does with these speakers. Norm has agreed to let me try my IC's and speaker cables in his system. If the nirvana goes away, I'll get different IC's and speaker cables. If the nirvana remains, then it is either source or pre amp related and we will try my pre/CDP at his place.

halo

SCompRacer wrote:

We are going to experiment with speaker cables and IC's cause I don't get the magic he does with these speakers. Norm has agreed to let me try my IC's and speaker cables in his system. If the nirvana goes away, I'll get different IC's and speaker cables. If the nirvana remains, then it is either source or pre amp related and we will try my pre/CDP at his place.

Sounds like you two are going to be pretty busy Have you tried throwing the McAlister in to the mix too? I'd like to try anything you'd contemplate selling before you sell it

SCompRacer wrote:

I just might take you up on that Fred. I thought you only had one TAD-60 though.:D

I have one too you know!

Normanality

Halo wrote:

Sounds like you two are going to be pretty busy Have you tried throwing the McAlister in to the mix too? I'd like to try anything you'd contemplate selling before you sell it ;)I have one too you know!

I used to run my Innersounds with 2 McAlisters. The PP150 is extremely clean and deep but compared to the TAD 60's, it is very tubey (dark) and there is no options to change the sound. The audio tubes (KT77's) are very forward and alive and they really make the Innersound panels sing. It's also very easy to make adjustments with the TAD-60 with the feedback control, volume pot or by using the electronic crossover with these others.

There's great synergy running 2 PP150's biamped on the Carvers I had.
Both Rich & I were blown away by the improved sonics doing this.

Anonymouse bought my original PP150 and now I'll be selling my new design PP150 along with the McAlister ML-33 preamp. No need holding onto these now

SCompRacer

Halo wrote:

Sounds like you two are going to be pretty busy Have you tried throwing the McAlister in to the mix too? I'd like to try anything you'd contemplate selling before you sell it ;)I have one too you know!

I moved the gear to the South wall so the reflections would exit to the other end of the main level. This was just before Norm arrived with his GIK Acoustic panels and bass traps. They didn't help or hurt so the room is not the problem.

As Norm pointed out, the McAlister doesn't do as well as the TAD's on the bass or panels. He has all the notes from the days session, but thats the way I remember it. They sure sounded great on the ALIII's though.

Thats right, you do have a TAD-60....:D

fredv

SCompRacer wrote:

I just might take you up on that Fred. I thought you only had one TAD-60 though.:D

Do I have one? My brother is not returning it back to me, that SO...., oops, we are brothers, that will make 2 of us

SCompRacer

fredv wrote:

Do I have one? My brother is not returning it back to me, ......

He has good taste.:D No xmas present for him the next couple years, eh?

SCompRacer

fredv wrote:

Trade the TAD-1000's for 2 TAD-60's

I recently did just that. The 60's make it easier to balance the panels to the woofers on the Innersound ESL's. Life is gooder now.