First 2 hours of TAD-60

fredv

I had been with my in-laws from 9am yesterday 'til 45 minutes ago. I am sure you guys had more fun than me ...

Last night, I put in the quad of Valve Art 6550A from TroyD. Since this quad are
alrady burn in, I could evaluate the TAD without the need to wait for another
50 hours. I listened the 6550 for 3.5 hours and played the same material as
previously. Let me tell you, the 6550's are not leaving the amp in the near future!!!!
Comparing to the KT77/Sveltana, the 6550A lose a touch of mid smoothness of
the EL34, but it adds deeper bass, bigger sound stage, and noticeably more dynamic.
My initial impression was, "wow, why these weren't the tubes came with amp."
So Norm, add a quad of KT88 to your to-buy list. You may not get all the deep slam
of the McAllister, but I imagine it will be very close. When you switch to
KT88, make sure you turn the bias adjustment at least 8 complete turns
counter clockwise. The KT77 settings were way way too high for my 6550's.
On my way back home, I picked a quad of Shuguang KT100 and a quad of
EH KT88. I will spend some time with them tomorrow and post my opinion
later. Another thing is that, I notice my TAD sounds more full after about
30 minutes of music play even after 30 minutes of idling warm up. Just curious,
did Paul burn in the amp for you?

Rich, I got my check Friday, weeee. The bad news is that it was smaller
than I hoped - not quite enough to cover even my current TAD. The good
news is that what I see is what I get - the company will cover the tax!! Since
this check was totally unexpected, I think I am going ahead with my biamp
plan If you have interest in playing the TAD-60, I can arrange with Paul
to have you pick up for me, just PM me for detail.

Normanality

Hi Fred,

So you're saying I need to find a good quad of 6550's?

If Rich brings home another piece of audio gear I'm afraid he'll need a taller rack
and the one he's got is already 6 feet tall :eek: That's called pushing the
envelope on the WAF

fredv

Normanality wrote:

Hi Fred,

So you're saying I need to find a good quad of 6550's?

Hi Norm,

Oops, I got into the trouble of KT88 vs EL34 topic :-) I think I am on the
KT88/6550 camp now, but the KT77's are good tubes. The 77 sounds like
in between of EL34 and KT88. For pure EL34 sound, I like JJ E34L.

At this point, it really makes no sense to run out to buy a quad of KT88/6550
just because Fred said so especially the amp and tubes are not even close to burn in yet. Like Mark said, listen first, roll tube later. Let me rephrase my
suggestion, if you plan to roll different tubes in the future, get a quad of
KT88/6550 tubes instead of EL34.

I didn't have too much experience with the KT88/6550 tubes.
So, don't know what are considered as good KT88/6550. I only listened to
KT88 from my brother's amp, my liking are in the order of JJ KT88, EH KT88,
and Shuguang KT100. I suppose the China made Valve Art 6550A's are similar
to the KT100 which I wasn't too excited, but that was his amp. The KT100's
are warming up as I type. So, I will find out whether how do they sound in the TAD-60. There is always an amp that a particular tube sounds good, right :-)

If Rich brings home another piece of audio gear I'm afraid he'll need a taller rack
and the one he's got is already 6 feet tall :eek: That's called pushing the
envelope on the WAF

WAF, I think I've pushed the envelope beyond her acceptance point. It
is WIF (Wife Igorance Factor) now. She just ignores what I bring home

dragon1952

I've got the JJ KT88's. They are very nice and very highly rated. They cost a tad more though too.

ND13

fredv wrote:

WAF, I think I've pushed the envelope beyond her acceptance point. It
is WIF (Wife Igorance Factor) now. She just ignores what I bring home

I'm right there wth ya!!:p

starchaser

Enjoy!

SCompRacer

Normanality wrote:

If Rich brings home another piece of audio gear I'm afraid he'll need a taller rack and the one he's got is already 6 feet tall :eek: That's called pushing the envelope on the WAF

She has clothes, loads of jewelery, 528 varieties of plants, shrubs and trees in the landscaping around the house, while I just have a few pieces of audio gear. All I gotta say to her is I can always get back into cars.:eek::D

Thanks for the generous offer Fred but I must decline. Once Norm gets his burnt in, I'll ask real nice and he might bring it over with his new pre amp.:D

Normanality

Quite a few hours logged on the TAD60 and it's sweet.

I don't know how much tube rolling I'm going to do because these JJ KT77's do very well all around. They sing on the Carver ribbons and provide very good bass.

Now, I thought I'd do a little experiment and put the TAD60 on my "A" system with the Innersound Eros Mk II electrostatics. I'm powering the transmission-line subwoofer with the Innersound bass amp/active crossover, leaving the TAD to do the panels only. I've been running the panels with my McAlister PP150 push-pull amp that uses horizontal output tubes.

It's a completely different animal than the McAlister. I'm not quite sure the TAD 60 has the power to properly run the panels as the impedance runs from 0-200 ohms depending on frequency (or so they say). With the feedback dial at zero on the TAD60, the panels scream with brightness, very thin soundstage. If I add feedback to the amp and rotate the dial to 3 o'clock, I have to run more volume to attain the same level but the sound is alive! I can't say which is better, which is worse since they are 2 totally different animals. The McAlister is definitely richer sounding and has more ballz at lower volume but there is a trade-off on separation and tonality.

My journey down the road to audio insanity continues

fredv

Yeah, the NFB dial is quite a handy feature. When I first saw it, I thought it was just some kind of gimmic. I end up using it more than I could imagine.

I am very much done with KT88/6550 tube rolling. I can say the Shuguang KT100 is very much the same as Valve Art 6550A. The EH KT88 has totally different signature. The China tubes have more HF extension which translate into more detail, or a touch of brightness if you will. The EH seems to shift the
spectrum to the low end. It has deeper bass and tubey mid but the high rolls
off a bit too soon to my taste. If the KT77 is too bright to drive the
Innersound's panel, the EH KT88 may do a better job. Norm, if you want to
try, PM me your addy. I will mail the EH KT88 and Valve Art to you to try.

SCompRacer

Muhahahhaha!


EDIT: Add pics.

ND13

Fargin Bastage!!!!

fredv

SCompRacer wrote:

Muhahahhaha!

OK, was it a coup or not :rolleyes: Tell us more !!!!!

halo

SCompRacer wrote:

Muhahahhaha!

Did you win the lottery? Give me a call bud

Normanality

Hokey smokes.

Just changed the bias on the tubes to create a SET amp condition, flipped the switch from Ultra linear to triode mode and did it smoothe out the ESL panels.
Helps that the panels are rated at 98dB efficient I guess.

That damn Rich, always trying to up the ante.

halo

Normanality wrote:

That damn Rich, always trying to up the ante.

He must have a money tree planted somewhere. :rolleyes: I wonder who could've done that? Hmmmmmmmm

schwarcw

WOW! Those mono blocks are sure purty! Congrats Rich! We're looking forward to your review!

I guess the wife has more plants and jewelry too LOL!:D

ND13

Normanality wrote:

Hokey smokes.

Just changed the bias on the tubes to create a SET amp condition, flipped the switch from Ultra linear to triode mode and did it smoothe out the ESL panels.
Helps that the panels are rated at 98dB efficient I guess.

That damn Rich, always trying to up the ante.

When did ya get the ESLs?

Normanality

ND13 wrote:

When did ya get the ESLs?

Hi Noel,

I got a great deal on them about 6 months ago.
They're great for a single 2 channel setup like mine. Superb imaging in the sweetspot.
Only issue is the sweetspot is about 12" wide and deep.
Specifically designed to do that tho they still sound pretty good even in the other room.
They kill ML's in most ways....

SCompRacer

Fargin Bastage!!!!

Waaaaaaaaaaaaaa!:D

OK, was it a coup or not :rolleyes: Tell us more !!!!!

Yes, a bloodless coup was staged and a pair of mono blocks are now in charge!

Did you win the lottery?

I received notification that I passed four of my recerts so I get a nice $2K before tax bonus in August.

I guess the wife has more plants and jewelry too LOL!

She has plenty of stuff, I need to catch up!:D

That damn Rich, always trying to up the ante.;)

Me?:p HA!;) Your the one! Besides, you and Fred are responsible for this upgrade.;)

I had me a nasty sinus episode yesterday with a splitter of a headache so life wasn't good until later today. After hearing Norm's TAD-60 on the ribbons, I was very impressed but wanted a bit more. After communicating with Paul, he felt a pair of his mono blocks would do just that. Talk about instant gratification, I ordered them Wednesday and he said I imagine you want them for the weekend. Well, of course! I picked them up Friday afternoon at 2PM. I went with just KT77's, no EL34's.

I can't say they are a McAlister killer sonically, but they do have tremendous bass with haunting imagery. I may have to brace my Silver Amazings. Detail, dynamics, timbre, ambiance, soundstage are all improved with only 18 hours on them. Soprano vocals and Oboes are silky smooth. I haven't tried any of the options (feedback control, Triode mode), they are in UL mode. $1525 with tax made them a fantastic deal. The outer box was a bit rough on one, but I'm still trying to find the dents. In regards to appearance, build quality, features, (and of late, service), they whup McAlister.

The cats eye tube on each mono is pretty kewl. The 6E2 tube is a visual light bar VU meter. The current output power is indicated by the closing of the green display from the top and bottom of the tube to the center. The intensity of the bar also increases with current output. If you like a dark room with just tube glow this could ruin it for you. I sent an inquiry to see if that tube could be left out if desired. The blue LED's are pretty bright but not blindingly so. One nit-pick, a 4 Ohm binding post has a black ring on the nut instead of a red ring.

I just put new tubes in the pre, so I'll continue to put hours on the system and keep listening. Then I'll try some of the options to see what I like the best. All in all, this has been a very positive upgrade.

EDIT: Add pic.

fredv

From the pictures, your TAD-1000's look perfect. I thought they weren't the special sale monos. That was one hack of a deal!!!

ND13

I wanna know how you get such clean pics of the tube glow???? Mine always come out shaky looking.

SCompRacer

I wanna know how you get such clean pics of the tube glow???? Mine always come out shaky looking.

I use a tripod left over from my 35mm film days. It is very difficult to hold a camera still with a 1/30 second or slower shutter speed when taking available light still life photos. The other factor is how accurate your cameras light meter is in low light situations. If the metering is accurate, and depending on ambient light, sometimes the photo comes out too nicely exposed. If the camera has manual settings, you can then bracket a series a photos. That is varying the exposure from the time the cameras meter indicates to lesser and greater amounts. You may end up with a few bad pics, but you just delete them and keep/post the best looking one.

SCompRacer

fredv wrote:

From the pictures, your TAD-1000's look perfect. I thought they weren't the special sale monos. That was one hack of a deal!!!

Paul responded to my inquiry this morning.:eek: :cool: He said from the way the skid and some of the boxes at the bottom look, it was dropped and he definitely expects to find damaged ones. He just opens them as he fills orders so he doesn't know the extent of the damage. The dents are from the weight of the transformers bending the top panel of the chassis at the rear. He said some pop out and look fine, others do not. I just happened to get lucky.

He also said one could remove the 6E2 VU meter tube if desired. The monos don't come with tube covers like the TAD-60. EDIT: But they do come with the tube cage over the output tubes.

In regards to the self healing LED, it could be the connection isn't solid. He said they are very bright so he pulls them out and slips a boot over them and may have fractured the solder joint.

He is waiting for a care package from the factory to address the color issue on the binding post nut.

fredv

He also said one could remove the 6E2 VU meter tube if desired.

That's good. I searched tubedpot, tubestore, and ebay. Only one
Hong Kong seller from ebay turned up. This tube can be a little
difficult to find. EM87 and 6HU6 seem to be the equivalent.

The monos don't come with tube covers like the TAD-60.

Do you refer to the tube shields or the tube cage? If it is
the tube cage, how much additional cost for it?

In regards to the self healing LED, it could be the connection isn't solid. He said they are very bright so he pulls them out and slips a boot over them and may have fractured the solder joint.

Ha ha, that might be the reason why my TAD-60 had a small "Glad Wrap"
plastic ball in the LED hole. I thought it was done by his boy Looks
like it was purposely done to reduce the brightness!!

SCompRacer

That's good. I searched tubedpot, tubestore, and ebay. Only one
Hong Kong seller from ebay turned up. This tube can be a little
difficult to find. EM87 and 6HU6 seem to be the equivalent.

Good info. Thanks!

Do you refer to the tube shields or the tube cage? If it is
the tube cage, how much additional cost for it?

The tube shields. They do come with cages around the big tubes. No little children here so I go with the nekkid option.

Ha ha, that might be the reason why my TAD-60 had a small "Glad Wrap"
plastic ball in the LED hole. I thought it was done by his boy Looks
like it was purposely done to reduce the brightness!!

LED STD protection?

EDIT: From threads I read at either Audiogon or Tube Asylum, one of the complaints was the bright LED. Could be your guy did it, have to ask him. Paul said he has a boot he slides over them. It appears Paul doesn't do anything half arse.

Normanality

Sheldon, aka Anonymouse, was nice enough to deliver a pair of fully modded SDA 1C's (which I bought) and we connected it to my B system along with the TAD-60. Once he left, I gave the Polks a good listen playing 'Chris Spheeris' and there is a nice synergy there. The TAD is very smoothe and with all the mods that Sheldon had done on the SDA's, made for a great combination.

Now I have to decide which of my setups will get the TAD. Both will probably be running in its' "SET amp" mode. I just love the rich textures this amp produces in this mode. I may just end up getting another one and have one on both :rolleyes:

The new "B" setup:

fredv

Wow, am I a fool for not trying the SET mode for 2 weeks? I'll be back :-)

Yes, it took just this much time to rebias and switch to SET mode. First impression was
the vocal was crisp and clear, like someone's voice recovered from a mild cold. I thought
the image was good, and it is even better. Why I didn't try until now? Go figure.

Normanality

Hi Fred,

I haven't tried the SET mode on the Carvers yet. Not sure there's enough umphh that way with the Carvers being only 87dB. Hope it works cuz it's sweet!

fredv

Normanality wrote:

Hi Fred,

I haven't tried the SET mode on the Carvers yet. Not sure there's enough umphh that way with the Carvers being only 87dB. Hope it works cuz it's sweet!

I didn't tried the Carver either. I was mating the 60 to the Dahlquist DQ-10 which are just as efficient, 87dB :-) but 8ohm. I still had the KT88 in the amp.
Since Paul doesn't have the SET settings for the KT88, I just bumped up the bias to 720mv and lowered V1 and V3 to 200mv. There is no problem to drive
the DQ-10's. I suppose the 2 "main" tubes probably will have shorter life, but
then I only need to buy a matched pair rather than a quad when their time is
up. I will ask Paul for the correct bias and post later in case anyone is interested.

SCompRacer

I tried SET mode with my TAD-1000 monos on the Silver's (88dB efficiency) and lost more than I gained. Great vocals, but dynamics took a big hit. I am burning in new MIT speaker cables so I'll eventually try it again.