Rant...

StopherJJ1980

BTW everyone comparing obesity to smoking should stop. Obesity is something you are genetically predisposed to. Sure diet and exercise play a role. But everyone knows a person, like myself, who eats like crap and and stays thin. Then there are those that try desperately to lose weight but still remain large. Obviously anyone hitting the 250-300+ mark where it is affecting others has a genetic problem, not one of choice. Even so, it affects you minimally, if at all. You know this too, youre just looking for someone else to focus your issues on and use as a scapegoat.

ND13

Funny, the majority(here in the USA) has to put up with the minority's crap all the time. I'm not too sure when this occurred, but sometime in the last 40 years or so, the majority hasn't really mattered. And please don't turn this into a racial/religous thing, because that's not the majority I'm talking about in this case. There are all kinds of issues that you/me/whoever might be on either side of, depending on the issue. My point is, that lately, it seems to me, that the minority has been getting it's way more and more.

steveinaz

Stopher
I'm not making a comparison between the 2, I'm simply saying who is next on the "you annoy me" list? I'm talking about the long term impact that this will have on ALL of us, you included.

Obesity may or may not be genetic, it depends on the individual. I'm sure there are overweight people who were destined to be overweight from birth, no problem--but lets see how sympathetic this country will be.

You can't smell/taste automobile emmissions? I know how pollution is in Tempe, give me a break. The point I ws making there, is that people make a stand against something they don't like, but accept other things as a matter of course; this is the "attitude" with arrogant anti-smokers. Automobiles a necessity? Nope. I work with a guy that rides a bike exclusively, all the time, regardless of weather. Automobiles are a necessity when it's convenient to say so.

It's people like you that aren't satisfied with just banning smoking in bars, restaurants, etc (which, btw I'm fine with that); no you want smoking banned. Hey it's a free country bub, just remember what I said...it will effect you--it already has. That's the difference between the hardcore anti-smokers and the smokers, smokers are willing bend and make concessions, the arrogant anti-smokers are not. You people aren't the slightest bit concerned for my health, or your health...you just can't stand smokers, and thats fine with me, you got nothing I need partner.

steveinaz

One of you anti-smoking zealots tell me this: how are you effected by me smoking outdoors? You know, in public parks, the sidewalk, etc. I'm listening....

steveinaz

StopherJJ1980 wrote:

Try and get some health care beyond your basic work plan or life insurance... you bet they take other risk factors into account when calculating premiums.

Health Care and Life Insurance are 2 different things. Life insurance policies have always surcharged smokers.

cfrizz

Well Steve, as someone else pointed out smoke doesn't have any regard for barriers or anything else. It travels up & over barriers it travels through any hole it can get out of. And it also goes in whichever direction the wind blows it.

I had to plug the hole around my kitchen sink pipes because the smoke from the guy next door to me, had my kitchen smelling like smoke & since I suffer from allergies I can't tolerate it.

There has been many times when I'm walking several feet behind a smoker & have gotten hit in the face by his/her cigarette smoke. I have crossed over to the other side of the street to avoid it!

Granted at least I have that option. The bottom line is that it is a major health risk and to be swamped with it without choosing to smoke is annoying.

I'm not a zealot, but I do feel that smoking should be banned from ALL buildings in which the entire public has access to. Whether a privately owned business or not.

steveinaz wrote:

One of you anti-smoking zealots tell me this: how are you effected by me smoking outdoors? You know, in public parks, the sidewalk, etc. I'm listening....

steveinaz

Here's the bottom line:

If you set a precidence by trying to enforce these anti-smoking measures, you are going to open a can of worms that you will regret. How do think these things will be enforced? Huh? Use your damn common sense. Smokers will be "tested" for the presence of nicotine. Now, how long do you think that will go on before EVERYONE will be required to be tested for everything. "Oh gee-whiz Mr. Jones, while your test indicates that you're a non-smoker, very commendable, we have found evidence that you have other issues that may impact the cost of your future healthcare costs."

Come on, it ain't rocket science.

Demiurge

I'm offended by body odor. So you stinky **** are next on my list. Wipe your **** better and use deoderant or we're coming for you.

steveinaz

cfrizz wrote:

Well Steve, as someone else pointed out smoke doesn't have any regard for barriers or anything else. It travels up & over barriers it travels through any hole it can get out of. And it also goes in whichever direction the wind blows it.

I had to plug the hole around my kitchen sink pipes because the smoke from the guy next door to me, had my kitchen smelling like smoke & since I suffer from allergies I can't tolerate it.

There has been many times when I'm walking several feet behind a smoker & have gotten hit in the face by his/her cigarette smoke. I have crossed over to the other side of the street to avoid it!

Granted at least I have that option. The bottom line is that it is a major health risk and to be swamped with it without choosing to smoke is annoying.

I'm not a zealot, but I do feel that smoking should be banned from ALL buildings in which the entire public has access to. Whether a privately owned business or not.

Cathy
Having allergies or being asthmatic are special circumstances. How do you deal with general pollution put out everyday, 24hrs a day?

Let me ask you this, have you ever BAR-B-Q'd? Ever sat around a campfire? That exposed you to more carcinogens that you'll breath in from second hand smoke in a lifetime...see my point?

Again, I'm fine with bans on smoking indoors---absolutely agree and embrace it. Outdoors it's hogwash. I grew up with a smoking mother/father my whole life. I have 5 brothers/sisters, I am the ONLY smoking sibling. All of us are not only quite handsome people, but we're also all very healthy.

steveinaz

Be back in a sec, I'm gonna grab a smoke...

cfrizz

Come on Steve, a blood test is NOT required to know if you smoke because you are NOT born with nicotine in your system. Unless your mother smoked while she carried you then yes it will be. And the poor kid will more than likely be born with a very weakened immune system, leaving them vulnerable to allergies, asthma, etc.

No one is born with genetic defect that pre-ordains smoking. It will take a very long time if ever before anyone starts making demands that everyone be tested for genetic defects for everything!

cfrizz

I take allergy meds YEAR round to try and maintain an even keel over all of it. Sometimes I lose the battle when my system is overwhelmed with all of the pollutants in the air.

I suffer reactions from all of the things that you mentioned as well as most types of trees, grasses, dust & mold! I took allergy shots for 8 years & now maintain with meds.

steveinaz wrote:

Cathy
Having allergies or being asthmatic are special circumstances. How do you deal with general pollution put out everyday, 24hrs a day?

Let me ask you this, have you ever BAR-B-Q'd? Ever sat around a campfire? That exposed you to more carcinogens that you'll breath in from second hand smoke in a lifetime...see my point?

Again, I'm fine with bans on smoking indoors---absolutely agree and embrace it. Outdoors it's hogwash. I grew up with a smoking mother/father my whole life. I have 5 brothers/sisters, I am the ONLY smoking sibling. All of us are not only quite handsome people, but we're also all very healthy.

steveinaz

cfrizz wrote:

Come on Steve, a blood test is NOT required to know if you smoke because you are NOT born with nicotine in your system. Unless your mother smoked while she carried you then yes it will be. And the poor kid will more than likely be born with a very weakened immune system, leaving them vulnerable to allergies, asthma, etc.

No one is born with genetic defect that pre-ordains smoking. It will take a very long time if ever before anyone starts making demands that everyone be tested for genetic defects for everything!

Huh? I never said smokers are pre-ordained to be smokers.

Don't kid yourself on the 2nd part (genetic testing), this would be a cash-cow for insurance companies---ye have too much faith. Do you think smokers 20 years ago would ever believe that they wouldn't be able to smoke in a restaurant? On a plane? In a bar? Hardly.

shack

As a former 3-pack-a-day chain smoker, I don't care if they ban tobacco altogether. I stopped smoking cold turkey 16 years ago and have never lit up another cigarette or cigar or pipe....nothing. The smell of smoke doesn't bother me unless I'm eating or closed up in a room so that isn't a real issue.

Many smokers (and I was often like this when I was one) are their own worst enemy. They assume the world is their ashtray. Nothing like having a burning butt flying in your window as you are driving down the road from the jerk in front of you flipping it out his window. It is so pleasant when getting out of my car in a parking lot to step in a pile of butts where someone who actually uses their ash tray decided to empty it for the parking lot sweeper to clean up. I also enjoy walking up on a green at a golf course and having to move the cigarette or cigar butt out of the line of my putt. Many people who would never dream of throwing a styrofoam cup or a empty chip bag on the ground think nothing of tossing a cigarette or cigar on the ground or floor. I KNOW there are many that don't...but there are way too many that do stuff like above.

And John, you are wrong about 2nd hand smoke. It is more potent that the filtered stuff coming from someones lungs. It is the "unfiltered" smoke coming from the burning end of the cigarette with no filtering whatsoever.

I am also not swayed by the argument that smokers pay all these taxes and that covers them. I would like to see a real economic study to see if the taxes paid cover the true costs of the effects of smoking...be it health issues, accidental fires, trash, etc....

Loss of personal choice....maybe. It's not the first "product" to become ostracized by society and will not be the last. Society doesn't really care if you slowly kill yourself by smoking...it is the cost to society that is creating the issue. As that cost increases, society is no longer willing to pay the price for smoker's right to choose their poison.

wodom1

steveinaz wrote:

One of you anti-smoking zealots tell me this: how are you effected by me smoking outdoors? You know, in public parks, the sidewalk, etc. I'm listening....

Litter. I know that not every smoker is discarding their butts on the ground, but the many that do piss me off. I've no problem with smoking outdoors, as long as they're not throwing their garbage on the ground. Also pisses me off when I'm driving behind someone and I see them flick their butt out the window.

I'm not an "anti-smoking zealot," but do agree with the indoor bans. Chicago just went smoke free in all restaurants, and bars have until July 2007 to go smoke free.

steveinaz

So, punish the many because of the faults of the few..right? That's not a smoker issue, that's an up-bringing issue. There's litter laws in place. Littering isn't exclusive to smokers, but nice try.

That's called "guilt by association."

wodom1

steveinaz wrote:

So, punish the many because of the faults of the few..right? That's not a smoker issue, that's an up-bringing issue. There's litter laws in place. Littering isn't exclusive to smokers, but nice try.

In case this was addressed to me... I'm not trying to use littering as an excuse to ban smoking. You asked how it affected me and I answered. I could care less if you smoke outdoors. I also never said that littering is exclusive to smokers. Don't put words in my mouth. If you want to smoke outdoors, go ahead.

steveinaz

Any car enthusiast out there? Sure there are. You know those things produce tons of pollutants right? What say we get a grip on those vehicles, limit horepower to say, oh 85hp. 85hp in a typically weighted car is plenty to do the legal speed limit of 75mph (some states). Afterall, you shouldn't be speeding should you? It's not healthy, it causes accidents which RAISE ALL OF OUR INSURANCE COSTS, including us innocent econo-car drivers that get good gas mileage and have minimal emmissions. I don't like fast cars, I think they are a waste, people drive them by personal choice. I want them banned. *(Note all the "I"'s)

You feeling me yet? Need I go on....?

*This issue is all about intolerence.

PhantomOG

steveinaz wrote:

Littering isn't exclusive to smokers, but nice try.

Its not exclusive but it is quite a problem. Seems like every week I hear about another grass fire and a few people losing their homes because of some jackass who thinks the world is his ashtray.

I can't drive for 5 minutes on the highway at night without seeing half a dozen people flick lit cigarettes out the window.

How many times in EVERYONE's life have you seen the typical smoker throw their butt onto the ground and step on it??? And then how many times have you seen that person bend over and pick it up? NEVER. Faults of a few? :rolleyes:

People should be free to kill themselves however they see fit. Smoke all you want, wherever you can. Business owners should be able to allow smoking if they want.

But until the day cigarette butt litter becomes uncommon and not the norm, we should continue to tax the hell out of them in order to pay for all the pickup.

I'm not anti-smoking. Not at all. I just can't stand the stupid idiots who throw their cigarette butts everywhere.

cfrizz

"steveinaz Huh? I never said smokers are pre-ordained to be smokers. "

What do you think bad genes do Steve? There is a form a breast cancer so prevelant that it has killed great grandmother, grandmother, mother & the daughters have decided to have their **** removed at puberty!

There is no such thing as being born/pre-ordained with a smoking gene!


Don't kid yourself on the 2nd part (genetic testing), this would be a cash-cow for insurance companies---ye have too much faith. Do you think smokers 20 years ago would ever believe that they wouldn't be able to smoke in a restaurant? On a plane? In a bar? Hardly.[/QUOTE]

Yes it WOULD be, but it most likely will NOT happen because there are too many unknowns still about bad genes that they would risk lawsuits up the ying yang if they labeled someone wrongly & penalized them for it.

steveinaz

PhantomOG wrote:

I just can't stand the stupid idiots who throw their cigarette butts everywhere.

I can't stand them either. In Arizona brush fires are a real hazard and those people with a lick of sense use their ashtray.

cfrizz

This is NOT about intolerance! It is about public health and the dangers of smoking have been known since before either you or I were born Steve!

You are perfectly free to kill yourself, but don't take everyone within lung distance of your smoke with you.

steveinaz

That's the wonderful thing about America, opinions. Mine happens to be that it is intolerence. The anti-smokers have won; we're outside now, paying nearly 5 bucks for a pack of cigarettes, paying higher health care/life insurance cost; but that's not good enough, now they want to ban smoking outdoors, in public places. Places that my tax dollars helped create, maintain, and improve. If I can't enjoy these areas, or I'm going to be discriminated against, I don't want any monetary involvement. Would you like your tax dollars going to a park designed exclusively for smokers? I bet not.

BIZILL

i'm fuggin' starving.

anyway, with this trend continuing as it will your local pot dealer on the corner will have one more option for the consumer. in pocket A we've got some chronic weed and pocket B we've got us some tobacco. imagine that.

BIZILL

kinda funky that in ten years marijuana will be legal and tobacco will not.

Skynut

What a discussion.
Where to start.
How about this way.

Hi my name is Skynut and I am a recovering smoker.
It has been 16 years since I quit but I have had some slip ups.
As of right now I chew tobacco. I have chewed for several years now and I hate it.
It is a discusting habbit.
I don't really care about people that give me bad looks when I spit on the street or even on the sidewalk. (which I try not to do but sometimes.....)
Anyhows I think Steve is sheding some light on the whole "Who's next" question.
When there is big money involved the rights of the few are diminished.

I agree that 20 years ago no-one would believe that the "right" to smoke would be compromised.
This country was founded on the rights of the people and now the powers that be are slowly weeding out any rights they want to see go.

If you think that every overweight person can not loose weight you are wrong.
Diet and exercise will make a person loose weight and I believe that all people could be the same average weight if they were forced to apply themselves.
That is that even the 400lb person could be 200lbs if they really tried. However, the amount of exercise required and the hunger pains from dieting would be more than most people would be willing to deal with.
So what happens when the powers that be determine that being overwieght is avoidable if they can force you to exercise 4 hours a day and eat a jenny craig meal only twice a day. This recipe will make you loose weight so therefore if you are not willing to loose it then you need to pay the piper.

What about mechanics? They work around grease and oil all day. These are carcinogens so therefore you pay more for your insurance also because of occupational hazards.

Campfires were mentioned also. I am supposed to call some number before I burn a fire in my fireplace. I am supposed to see if it is allowed by the powers that be before I relax with my familly. So someday I will be ticketed for burning on a non burn day. They also really frown on traditional wood burning fireplaces. Do you suppose that anyone 20 years ago would believe that having a fire in your own house would be a right that could be taken away?

I agree that smoking is annoying when it is close enough to me that I can smell it, it is also an addictive substance that is compared to heroin.
Hheroin was legal and believed to be a "right" for U.S. citizens back in the 30's, although we would all probably agree that our country is better off without as many heroin addicts in it, it was still believed to be a right and it was taken away.

There are going to be many more "rights" taken away in our lifetimes and with every single one of them there will be people on both sides claiming their side is the rightous one.

It scares me that this great country of ours is run to satisfy the vocal minority instead of the quiet majority.

Skynut

BIZILL wrote:

i'm fuggin' starving.

anyway, with this trend continuing as it will your local pot dealer on the corner will have one more option for the consumer. in pocket A we've got some chronic weed and pocket B we've got us some tobacco. imagine that.

Remember prohibition?

shack

BIZILL wrote:

kinda funky that in ten years marijuana will be legal and tobacco will not.

I wouldn't count on it.

PhantomOG

Skynut wrote:

It scares me that this great country of ours is run to satisfy the vocal minority instead of the quiet majority.

All of these rights are being taken away on the premise that it impedes or takes away rights from others. It is a very delicate balance and the easy answer is to always cave to the demands of those who are "offended". However, no one seems to see it for what it really is.

In Austin (a *very* liberal town for Texas), legislation is being passed putting very restrictive regulations on property owners near and around downtown. Being close to downtown is an obvious plus for property values and people are starting to tear down their old, smaller, homes and replacing them with much larger homes that completely or almost completely fill their lots. Neighbors are being hit with higher property values (and taxes) and are complaining to city council. Now rules very specific rules are being passed preventing homeowner from what they can and cannot do with their homes and property. I think it is completely unfair.

steveinaz

Thanks Sky for seeing my "true" point to this situation. Doesn't this country have enough intolerence already? Or do we need to start making **** up because we're bored. People are split by sex, race, political affil, economic stature, smoking, non-smoking, fit, overweight, etc, etc. America was based on tolerence; accepting people for who they are, not what they do; but people now are so damn self-serving they can't tolerate a moment of discomfort. Be it a crying baby at the theater, the guy having a party in his backyard palying music a little louder than "you" care for, or the smoker trying to find somewhere to have a damn cigarette without being chastized.