What to get....

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  • exalted512
    exalted512 Posts: 10,735
    edited December 2005
    so lets say you have an amp that do 2600 watts and is 96% efficient, then you have a 75x6 amp thats about 60% efficient.

    Then lets say you were going to run dual batteries and 2 batcaps. Also a good high output alternator. The first battery will be in the engine compartment and the other 3 in the toolbox, all connected with no isolator. The amps will be in the back of the truck, so about 5 ft away from the battery itll be connected to. What size power wire would you run?
    -Cody
    Music is like candy, you have to get rid of the rappers to enjoy it
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  • neomagus00
    neomagus00 Posts: 3,899
    edited December 2005
    humm... [2600 / (0.96 * 13.8)] + [(75 * 6)/(0.60 * 13.8)] = 196.26+ 54.35 = 250 A = two 0-gauge cables or one 0000-gauge cable... maybe only one 0-gauge bridging the batteries in the toolbox, cause they're quite close...

    pbd?
    It's not good, very fundamentally simply not good. - geolemon

    "Its not good enough until we have real-time fearmongering. I want my fear mongered as it happens." - Shizelbs
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  • PoweredByDodge
    PoweredByDodge Posts: 4,185
    edited December 2005
    240A total draw

    side note - just did the conversion for what 0000 (4/0) would be -- 4/0 has the SAME area for current carrying as two lines of 0... so 2 * 0 = 0000 = 4/0 = 300 amp happy.

    Assuming high output alt means 250-300A, then you can get away with 00 for the alt stud to battery line (and the matching ground), but you'd be better off with 000.

    As far as getting from the 1st battery to behind your extended cab and into a tool box in the bed... thats what, 20 feet or around that?

    At 240 A, you'll get a 0.7 V drop through 20 feet of 000.

    you'll get a 0.6 drop out of 4/0 or two lines of 0. might as well just do the 000 so its all clean looking, and still cheaper than 4/0.

    bridging them batteries / batcaps ... assuming 1 foot lengths between them ... you can use 0 and get a 0.1 v drop per link = 0.2 v drop in addition to the 0.6 or 0.7 drop of the 20 foot line... or use 000 and have no voltage drop. go with the 000, already have enough of a drop.

    going from the batteries to the amplifiers... you say about 5 feet... so lets say 2 feet will go from batts to distro block(s) -- use 000. then from distro block to the amp 75 x 4 - you can use 8 gauge, you'll have a 0.2 v drop, or use 4 gauge for a 0.1 volt drop. might as well just use the 4 if you have it around, but 8 would be ok too.

    from the distro to the big 2600 watter... use 2 gauge for a 0.2 v drop, or use 0 gauge for a 0.1 v drop.

    so basically...

    alt to batt under hood = 000
    batt under hood to batts in tool box in bed = 000
    batts in too box in bed to each other = 000
    tool box bats to distro block = 000
    distro to small amp = 4 awg
    distro to big amp = 0 awg
    The Artist formerly known as PoweredByDodge
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  • brettw22
    brettw22 Posts: 7,624
    edited December 2005
    So anyway......back to me....... ;)

    I ordered all the CarDomain stuff and it should be arriving the week of the 19th and maybe I can install it by Christmas....but maybe not.

    The Pioneer should be here within a week and a half.

    The Speakers and Amp are here and ready for those things to arrive so I can get it all installed......then it's a Merry **** Christmas to me.......WOOOOOO HOOOOOO!!!
    comment comment comment comment. bitchy.
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  • MacLeod
    MacLeod Posts: 14,358
    edited December 2005
    Outstanding! Welcome to the sickness!
    polkaudio sound quality competitor since 2005
    MECA SQ Rookie of the Year 06 ~ MECA State Champ 06,07,08,11 ~ MECA World Finals 2nd place 06,07,08,09
    08 Car Audio Nationals 1st ~ 07 N Georgia Nationals 1st ~ 06 Carl Casper Nationals 1st ~ USACi 05 Southeast AutumnFest 1st

    polkaudio SR6500 --- polkaudio MM1040 x2 -- Pioneer P99 -- Rockford Fosgate P1000X5D
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  • exalted512
    exalted512 Posts: 10,735
    edited December 2005
    where do you pick up 000?
    -Cody
    Music is like candy, you have to get rid of the rappers to enjoy it
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  • PoweredByDodge
    PoweredByDodge Posts: 4,185
    edited December 2005
    that's a good question cody - where to get 3/0 ...

    it's not as thick as some ppl might think -- i mean... it's not like a big old hunk of **** the size of your arm or anything. usually it's used for industrial power lines (like in factories to wire up presses and huge **** that picks up cars and crap). they had a ton of it at ford -- 0000 / 000 / 00 / and 0 made up just about every wire in that place -- i was tempted to "aquire" some of it -- they would just throw out 10 and 15 foot lengths because they'd buy big spools of like 1,000 feet at a time so what was at the end of the roll went in the trash - but employees can't remove trash because "even the trash is property of the communists that run the joint".

    but alas - here you go

    3/0 welding cable - same as power line -- they call it welding cable because dudes who use big **** welders need this **** --

    http://store.solar-electric.com/wc--3-0.html

    that's 3/0 at 100 feet for 160 bucks available in red and black only... 1.60 a foot is CHEAP.

    they're 4/0 is almost as cheap , its less than 2 bucks a foot dude...

    **** is high stand count too - very flexible - looks to be at least 2000 strand, plenty good for DC power use.

    the ring terminals are also available from those dudes - its like 50 bucks for 25 ring terminals... with all the connections you'll be making you miht as well get the 25 pack because you know you're gonna break one or two of them in the big **** vise(vice? or vise?) when you crimp them on -- if you got one of those industrial crimpers that'd be better... but a big gigantic vice will work too.

    look up welding cable anywhere and you can find some other suppliers. you're big problem is goig to be finding a distributiohn block... unless you just go with a simple disto block that's just got a hold down bolt (so you could use ring terminals). but if you can't find a 3/0 or 4/0 distro block then get a good 0 gauge one and just cut some of the "hairs" off the end of the 3/0 or 4/0 when you shove it in... tighten it down real good and forget about it --- dropping from 3/0 to 0 gauge for 1/10th of an inch isn't going to hurt jack ****. you might want to go with one of those non waterproof ring terminal style fuse holders under the hood as well to make it fit --- just put a BIG piece heat shrink tubing over the entire plastic unit when its hooked up and hit it with the heat gun very gently -- like dont blast it - just kinda nurse it and the tubing wll take the exact form of hte fuse holder without ripping... make it nice and waterproof - sure you'll ahve to re-heat-shrink it if you blow a fuse, but u're kinda **** as far as the size goes, and i dont think anybody's gonna give you **** when they see that heavy of apower cable - the'yll probaly just drool.
    The Artist formerly known as PoweredByDodge
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  • PoweredByDodge
    PoweredByDodge Posts: 4,185
    edited December 2005
    oh - one more thing...

    it's not a requirement, and people will probably disagree with me, but if you're running that much power, i do highly reccomend that you fuse between batteries.

    use something like this...

    http://www.cardomain.com/item/LITBANL1 (10 bucks a pop - the non-wateproof screw down with a snap on cover ANL unlimited wire size ring terminal fuse holders).

    between each battery (only on the positive obviously)... with like a 300 A fuse -- you're going to be drawing 240 - 250 - and if you try to juice that puppy to show it off and your amps are underrated at all, you'll be drawing more -- 350 might be high - i wish they made like a 325A fuse cuz that would be perfect.. i dunno - start with 300's - if thy're popping and you're SURE that nothing is wrong with the wiring, then bump up to 350's. little trial and error.

    anyway - reason i suggest fusing between batteries (and if batcaps have the ability to output current anywhere near the way batteries do then i suggest you fuse between them the same way you would a battery) is that a cell in a battery can go bad at any time when placed under extreme load like that... and you never really know what's going to happen... it may just die... or it may try to "recharge" itself constantly and suck a shitload of current from your alternator and other batteries/batcaps damaging your batcpas/batteries/ and possibly thealternator ... in my truck i've got the alternator + stud going to two 0 gauge lines... one line is fused and hooked to battery #2 -- the other line is fused and hooked to battery #1 -- so the batteries are just tied together... but each has a fuse to protect it from the alternator and from each other. I would have just hooked battery 2 right up to battery 1 - but they're on opposite sides of hte engine compartment and the alt is in the middle so it was less length of wire to just make them meet at the + stud of hte alternator. (god bless the diesel battery holder that fits in the pass side).

    hey ahve you thought about that?? about gettin a dieselbattery holder for your truck - if the body style is the same for the HD and the regular trucks then you can probably pick up a diesel battey tray for theother side of the engine comparemtn for like 20 to 30 bucks (mine was like 25 i think). should bolt into existing holes and **** - you might ahve to replace your air box (i duno if u got one there or not) with like a K&N filter that just bolts to the throttle body or even a round dish air cleaner (i bolted a 12" KnN round cylinder lookin element to the "snout" of the plastic cover over my throttle body and ditched the air box) but then you could like put the bat caps in the cabin with the amps cuz bat caps don't have acid or anything in them right? i think they just have a dielectric if they're a 100% capacitor built type thing (like some kinda super-cap)... it's worth investigating dude - but find out ifthe bat caps are lead-acid (like regular battery) based first - if they are then i wouldn't put them in the cabin, fumes and **** could knock you out - even if they're sealed like optima yellow tops, you never know what could happen, last thing you need is to pass out and crack up the truck.
    The Artist formerly known as PoweredByDodge
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  • exalted512
    exalted512 Posts: 10,735
    edited December 2005
    how do you do your calculations vince? according to mine, if im using 0awg, drawing 350A going over 25 ft of wire, ill only be dropping 0.84V
    -Cody
    Music is like candy, you have to get rid of the rappers to enjoy it
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  • PoweredByDodge
    PoweredByDodge Posts: 4,185
    edited December 2005
    way to lazy to do them by hand... i was using the calculator that is below the gauge chart from that site i liked u to -- http://www.powerstream.com/Wire_Size.htm

    if you scroll down, you enter wire material (copper) ... gauge you're using ... type of power (click on "12V DC or 1-phase AC" ... one way length from batt to amp ... and then click on "calculate" -- it'll spit the answers out for you.
    The Artist formerly known as PoweredByDodge
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  • brettw22
    brettw22 Posts: 7,624
    edited December 2005
    Well the Deck arrived......now just waiting for the amp kit and all the stuff from CarDomain then I should have the system installed next week........
    comment comment comment comment. bitchy.
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  • MacLeod
    MacLeod Posts: 14,358
    edited December 2005
    Glad to hear it brother. Now for the hard part, the waiting.

    Thats the biggest drawback to CA compared to HA, when you get your new toys you cant just plug em in and play! ;)
    polkaudio sound quality competitor since 2005
    MECA SQ Rookie of the Year 06 ~ MECA State Champ 06,07,08,11 ~ MECA World Finals 2nd place 06,07,08,09
    08 Car Audio Nationals 1st ~ 07 N Georgia Nationals 1st ~ 06 Carl Casper Nationals 1st ~ USACi 05 Southeast AutumnFest 1st

    polkaudio SR6500 --- polkaudio MM1040 x2 -- Pioneer P99 -- Rockford Fosgate P1000X5D
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  • amulford
    amulford Posts: 5,020
    edited December 2005
    Why would you want to put that MP3 **** through those nice speakers???

    Street wires is the way to go. If you plan aon another amp later on, be sure you size the main power cable accordingly... I have some 1/0 in the truck. :cool:
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  • PoweredByDodge
    PoweredByDodge Posts: 4,185
    edited December 2005
    who is this turkey?
    The Artist formerly known as PoweredByDodge
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  • amulford
    amulford Posts: 5,020
    edited December 2005
    Just another HA nut who went a little over in the 12 volt...
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  • Jstas
    Jstas Posts: 14,820
    edited December 2005
    PoweredByDodge wrote:
    who is this turkey?

    Dude, don't bag on Anthony. His **** is the real deal! I should know, I spent 14 hours in his garage installing it with him!

    You'd have seen it and those pretty Soundstream VanGoghs if you came to the PolkFest instead of breaking yer Dodge!
    Expert Moron Extraordinaire

    You're just jealous 'cause the voices don't talk to you!
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  • PoweredByDodge
    PoweredByDodge Posts: 4,185
    edited December 2005
    Jstas wrote:
    and those pretty Soundstream VanGoghs

    ... those amps are beyond pretty. Soundstream really had it all goin good for a while there. Phenominal power, great specs, absolutely wild cases that were pieces of artwork (rather than just neon lights and crappy 'tuner' effects).

    Breaking my dodge is inevitable... if I don't break it, it'll break itself. It's the law of ****.

    **** (law): a thing that shall, regardless of condition, circumstance, or any stimuli, break down - fall apart - or turn to crap. Often describes Dodge trucks and Compaq computers.



    .... So what's this dude runnin in his car/truck. The only big install you did that I ever heard of was your Lightning. What else have you been bringing to life?
    The Artist formerly known as PoweredByDodge
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  • amulford
    amulford Posts: 5,020
    edited December 2005
    Well, I've got a Kenwood EZc 500 HU with a Sirius tuner.

    A pair of MMC 6500's in the doors and a pair of Sound dynamics 5 1/4 fullrange in the rear pillars. Those are being pushed by a Soundstream Van Gogh Series VGA 500.4, around 125 WPC @ 4 OHM.

    Then I have 2 MM2104 DVC's in a twin sealed box getting pushed by Soundstream Van Gogh Series VGA 800.2 right behind the seat.

    All of the wiring, connectors and power distribution is by StreetWires. Shielded twisted pair IC's, and this Pretty **** 12 GA. blue and silver speaker wire. Main power is fed through a 300 amp fuse and 1/0 power cord to a D-block which breaks it out to two 4/0 feeds through twin 80 amp fuses. Grounds are seperate 4/0 runs.


    It sounds pretty good... :cool:

    My only **** is it dims the hell out of the lights when I'm kicking it. I have to put in some stiffening caps.

    I have John to thank for the system, he did all of the research for me and stuck with me for the install. He was at it for 14 hrs. I was at it for around 18.

    I've been bitten by the upgrade bug, though. Stay tuned...
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  • PoweredByDodge
    PoweredByDodge Posts: 4,185
    edited December 2005
    the EZ-500 is a really nice deck - i had considered it and even though the version i was looking at only had 2 pre-outs i still wanted it becuase of the cool looking knobs. (actually i forget whether it was that it had 2 V outs or that it only had 2 instead of 3 outs -- one or the other). I ended up with an Kenwood Excelon 601 (i think thats the number). very similar features, but without the tuner (alraedy had an outboard tuner).

    the upgrade bug can be viscious - but try not to fall victim to it... sometimes you have what is "perfect" and don't realize it until you gut your gear and put something htat you think is better in, but actually turns out to be not as good as what you had. it sounds like you have quite the well rounded system there. If anything, adding toys rather than changing things may be the kind of upgdrade you are looking for (ie. EQ).
    The Artist formerly known as PoweredByDodge
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  • amulford
    amulford Posts: 5,020
    edited December 2005
    I can appreciate that. I'm in the process of building a sick two channel home rig... :D

    No, I think the electronics are fine. I think I'll be upgrading speakers and adding an amp to bi amp everything. probably add stiffening caps to save the alternator and go with a HO alternator. Since i will only have Polks, there's only one way to go... :cool:
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  • MacLeod
    MacLeod Posts: 14,358
    edited December 2005
    Are you running the stock battery Anthony?

    If so, you may not need a cap. A good battery upgrade would be a much better solution. Something like an Optima Yellow Top.
    polkaudio sound quality competitor since 2005
    MECA SQ Rookie of the Year 06 ~ MECA State Champ 06,07,08,11 ~ MECA World Finals 2nd place 06,07,08,09
    08 Car Audio Nationals 1st ~ 07 N Georgia Nationals 1st ~ 06 Carl Casper Nationals 1st ~ USACi 05 Southeast AutumnFest 1st

    polkaudio SR6500 --- polkaudio MM1040 x2 -- Pioneer P99 -- Rockford Fosgate P1000X5D
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  • amulford
    amulford Posts: 5,020
    edited December 2005
    Cool, I never liked the idea of caps. Something about having three farads of juce waiting to light your a$$ up while your working on it...
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  • PoweredByDodge
    PoweredByDodge Posts: 4,185
    edited December 2005
    3 farads really isn't much - i've got 3 farads in my hunk of scrap and while it looks like a big ugly mean thing, its not as dangerous as any might think.

    caps have their purpose and place, and to be quite honest - even if the system drew 100 amps, and the rest of the vehicle drew 60 amps, and you had an alternator that put out more than 160 amps, and you had two big old deep cycle batteries... a certain amount of capacitance would still be necessary.... why ? because THAT situation is what its actually intended for. cha ching.

    gnite
    The Artist formerly known as PoweredByDodge
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  • Jstas
    Jstas Posts: 14,820
    edited December 2005
    Actually, they are Image Dynamics 5 1/4 inch speakers in the rear. They aren't marketed as full range but they do have a very wide response range. That and the phase plugs give them a fairly wide soundstage so they aren't easy to localize. Perfect for rear speakers. They seem to have a very similar voicing and construction to the MMC series so they worked out great for his deal. They were a bit of a pain to get mounted but once we got them in, everything was good.
    Expert Moron Extraordinaire

    You're just jealous 'cause the voices don't talk to you!
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  • brettw22
    brettw22 Posts: 7,624
    edited December 2005
    Holy $HIT are those ANL fuse holders big.........I didn't really look at the measurements and had I done so I probably wouldn't have gotten anything this large......oh well.

    I got all the stuff that I ordered (also got some blue/silver Streetwires speaker cable, battery terminals, grounding plug, firewall grommet for my 4awg amp cable, and some headlights.

    I'm off to Tweeter to get the write-up for the install and hopefully I can get it in this week to have it done..........wish me luck.
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  • PoweredByDodge
    PoweredByDodge Posts: 4,185
    edited December 2005
    ahh good ol' ID...
    The Artist formerly known as PoweredByDodge
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  • amulford
    amulford Posts: 5,020
    edited December 2005
    Jstas wrote:
    Actually, they are Image Dynamics 5 1/4 inch speakers in the rear. They aren't marketed as full range but they do have a very wide response range. That and the phase plugs give them a fairly wide soundstage so they aren't easy to localize. Perfect for rear speakers. They seem to have a very similar voicing and construction to the MMC series so they worked out great for his deal. They were a bit of a pain to get mounted but once we got them in, everything was good.


    I stand to be corrected. Image Dynamics is right. You know, I should have known that, I still have the box with the extra connectors and fuses in them.

    Brett, you're gonna dig it, man. Nothing like good tunes in the vehicle... :cool:
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  • PoweredByDodge
    PoweredByDodge Posts: 4,185
    edited December 2005
    i didn't know john liked ID stuff... its high quality gear though -- i used to have IDmax subs -- crazy wild stuff. their chameleon components are sick too.
    The Artist formerly known as PoweredByDodge
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  • MacLeod
    MacLeod Posts: 14,358
    edited December 2005
    brettw22 wrote:
    Holy $HIT are those ANL fuse holders big.........I didn't really look at the measurements and had I done so I probably wouldn't have gotten anything this large......oh well.

    I got all the stuff that I ordered (also got some blue/silver Streetwires speaker cable, battery terminals, grounding plug, firewall grommet for my 4awg amp cable, and some headlights.

    I'm off to Tweeter to get the write-up for the install and hopefully I can get it in this week to have it done..........wish me luck.

    Damn bro! You dont have that installed yet? God, waiting that long would kill me. ;)

    Im looking forward to your first impressions.
    polkaudio sound quality competitor since 2005
    MECA SQ Rookie of the Year 06 ~ MECA State Champ 06,07,08,11 ~ MECA World Finals 2nd place 06,07,08,09
    08 Car Audio Nationals 1st ~ 07 N Georgia Nationals 1st ~ 06 Carl Casper Nationals 1st ~ USACi 05 Southeast AutumnFest 1st

    polkaudio SR6500 --- polkaudio MM1040 x2 -- Pioneer P99 -- Rockford Fosgate P1000X5D
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  • brettw22
    brettw22 Posts: 7,624
    edited December 2005
    Well I just got all the other stuff that I've been waiting for, and the amp kit has an AFS fuse inline instead of the AGU one that was pictured on CarDomain, and also on StreetWires site. The fuse that comes with the kit is a 100amp fuse, with the maximum size they have on their site (SW) is a 150amp. Depending on my mood at the time of install, I might have them switch the fuse housing to the ANL, especially if there's a chance in hell that I come close to deciding to go bigger down the line.

    The reason that I haven't had any of this installed was because I was waiting on the amp kit that just arrived today. Irritated the hell out of me too, and I just went to the shop to get scheduled and they don't have an opening until the 29th. SO much for the 'in time for Christmas' install present........damn...
    comment comment comment comment. bitchy.
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