The BMW M6

thehaens@cox.net · June 2005

So as I was going through my daily ritual of sitting on my throne. I was browsing through the July issue of Motor Trend. It is about 0500, the coffee is brewing....so I decide to read about a car that I:

1) Really have no interest in.
2) Couldn't really afford even if I was.
3) Read number 2.

So anyway, I am going through the article and I'll tell you what, there is really nothing, absolutlely nothing to be said about this car but great things. But for whatever reason, now two hours later. The only thing I can remember from the article is:

"The aluminum suspension is so far advanced, you could drive over a newspaper and read it"

I read this over and over and still don't get it........someone clue me in....

Oh, and it has some formula 1 inpired V-10.

sdh

Spawndn72 · June 2005

It means that the suspension is so accurate and the feedback is so good, that it could feel the newsprint as if it were embossed. So kinda like reading brail. At least that's what I gather from it.

ND13 · June 2005

Originally posted by Spawndn72
It means that the suspension is so accurate and the feedback is so good, that it could feel the newsprint as if it were embossed. So kinda like reading brail. At least that's what I gather from it.

Exactamundo!!

And BTW, it really is a BADASS automobile.

thehaens@cox.net · June 2005

Originally posted by ND13

And BTW, it really is a BADASS automobile.

That it is......from what I gather, but 92K price is a few grips of cash from the teller. I think I would go with Audi's RS4 "Coming Soon".......All the performance with a savings of 40k....

Realizing of course that they really aren't near the same class of automobile. Now, if Audi brings back the S8 or better yet replaces the RS6 with an RS8.....then we are on to something...

Sami · June 2005

All the performance with a savings of 40k....

That is if you actually get to drive your Audi other than from your trip back from the dealer after they have just finished repairing it again.

All the performance? Have they been tested/raced head to head or are you talking about paper performance (1/4 mile, hp etc.)?

thehaens@cox.net · June 2005

Originally posted by Sami
That is if you actually get to drive your Audi other than from your trip back from the dealer after they have just finished repairing it again.

Ouch..........I have had the A4, (2001), and now own an A6 (2003).....haven't had any problems with either.....what gives?

sdh

Emlyn · June 2005

Originally posted by Spawndn72
It means that the suspension is so accurate and the feedback is so good, that it could feel the newsprint as if it were embossed. So kinda like reading brail. At least that's what I gather from it.

BMW designs their front suspensions/steering feedback so that drivers may be able to feel a coin under a front tire when driving over it on the plant floor, or so they used to claim.

I read the article a couple of days ago (yes, on the throne too) and was impressed that the car performs so well it's got too much performance to be tested adequately through all its gears on a race track they took it to.

Sami · June 2005

Originally posted by thehaens@cox.ne
Ouch..........I have had the A4, (2001), and now own an A6 (2003).....haven't had any problems with either.....what gives?

You have been lucky unlike many others.

thehaens@cox.net · June 2005

Originally posted by Emlyn
BMW designs their front suspensions/steering feedback so that drivers may be able to feel a coin under a front tire when driving over it on the plant floor, or so they used to claim.
.

I am not sure I would want to feel all that feedback...I haven't owned a BMW so I can't say I have had the "Experience" but really have always liked the look of the 3 series, (M3 that is)...

Will have to take one for a drive sometime, and while I am test driving go to a smooth parking lot, get out put a quarter down, and when the sales guy asks me what I am doing. I'll tell him I am trying to vouch the manufacturers claim....:D

Willow · June 2005

Originally posted by thehaens@cox.ne
So as I was going through my daily ritual of sitting on my throne.

glad to hear you are regular !!;)

thehaens@cox.net · June 2005

Originally posted by Sami
many others.

Sami

Can you point me to a thread of the problems people are having? I checked JD Power and Audi has always been high up on the reliability scale, as well as customer satisfaction. Just curious where you are getting your data from.

thanks

Scott

thehaens@cox.net · June 2005

Originally posted by Willow
glad to hear you are regular !!;)

And Beyond!!! if I am not dropping deuces at least twice a day, there is something wrong.......High Fiber.....

jdhdiggs · June 2005

Originally posted by thehaens@cox.ne
I am not sure I would want to feel all that feedback...I haven't owned a BMW so I can't say I have had the "Experience" but really have always liked the look of the 3 series, (M3 that is)...

Most people grab the steering wheel too hard to even notice hitting the painted lines, let alone a coin... Try this sometime: Hands at 9 and 3 (10 and 2 for twits

) push your palms into the wheel and have your finger tips barely touching the wheel and steer with the palms. If you have a tight suspension you should feel when you hit the paint lines through the feel of the wheel.

F1nut · June 2005

Audi makes a damn fine car, reliable too. I think Sami's refering to the old days when Audi did have a few problems.

Sami · June 2005

Originally posted by thehaens@cox.ne
Can you point me to a thread of the problems people are having? I checked JD Power and Audi has always been high up on the reliability scale, as well as customer satisfaction. Just curious where you are getting your data from.

Number of people here at work have been buying Audi's, VW's and other VAG products, only a few of them have been worry free. Every week I hear another horror story.

JD Powers LONG TERM ratings for my A4:

2/5 Mechanical Dependability
3/5 Feature & Accessory Dependability
2/5 Body & Interior Dependability

5/5 Among the best.
4/5 Better than most
3/5 Does not really stand out.
2/5 The rest.

ND13 · June 2005

Originally posted by thehaens@cox.ne
Ouch..........I have had the A4, (2001), and now own an A6 (2003).....haven't had any problems with either.....what gives?

sdh

Probably Audi's "ancient history" reputation from the 80's and early 90's. The 5000 almost put Audi out of business here in the U.S.. I don't think the rep is warranted on the late model Audi's.
That's not saying that the Audi is as good as the BMW, either.
Audi really doesn't make a specific model that competes head to head with the M6, unless I've missed the release of a new Audi luxury sports coupe.

All in all, though, Audi makes an outstanding vehicle these days, with probably the finest interiors in the industry, not including the exotic British marques(Bentley,Aston Martin, Rolls, and Jaguar).

I'd love to own an Audi S6 or S8 someday.

Sami · June 2005

Originally posted by thehaens@cox.ne
I am not sure I would want to feel all that feedback...

It all depends...do you want a cruiser or a Sports/GT Car. The latter, feedback is very important but for a cruiser one might want the comfort over feedback.

thehaens@cox.net · June 2005

Originally posted by ND13

Audi really doesn't make a specific model that competes head to head with the M6, unless I've missed the release of a new Audi luxury sports coupe..

Not recently, but I did have the fortunate, albeit, short test drive of the RS6 in Carlsbad....last year....wish I could of reconciled dropping the money on it, but I would of had to re-mortgage the house:D They wanted 8K over sticker for it....it sat for about 4 months then finally got sold. I would think that the RS6 would give the M6 a run for the money.

unc2701 · June 2005

Audi's pre 2002 SUCKED for repair history, but they've gotten much better the past few years- same thing for VW. My roommate's car has had so many problems it's gotten to be a joke. Parts will just fall off his car when he's driving down the interstate....

thehaens@cox.net · June 2005

Originally posted by Sami
Number of people here at work have been buying Audi's, VW's and other VAG products, only a few of them have been worry free. Every week I hear another horror story.

JD Powers LONG TERM ratings for my A4:

2/5 Mechanical Dependability
3/5 Feature & Accessory Dependability
2/5 Body & Interior Dependability

5/5 Among the best.
4/5 Better than most
3/5 Does not really stand out.
2/5 The rest.

I see my 2001 A4 fared better than your ranking,

All 3's for long term......

and initial many 4's......

That is too bad that your co-workers are having problems with their specific model's.....as far as I am concerned I will stay with an Audi in my line up.....I lease them and turn em' in before the warranty expires so I couldn't provide long term feedback on them.

But my 91 Merc 190E is 4's and 5's on JD.......

heiney9 · June 2005

Ahhhhhand we all thought we were all opinionated about audio! I have had more than casual dealings with several VW/Audi/VAG products, as well as family member and friends. They are solidly built; very fun to drive cars, however they are prone to more repairs than the average Japanese car. Its a tough fact for me to admit because I love the cars so much. IMO, the biggest problem with VAG is the competition to keep up with technology. Unfortunate technology is the driving force in automobiles, and if the public perception is that your technology is behind, then they feel your product is inferior, even if it isnt. I feel Audi and especially VW have rushed technology to the market before it has been thoroughly tested to iron out the bugs.

The 5-valve turbo heads on the 1.8 liter motors is a technological marvel, but in the end it has had some serious problems. The original water pump drive splines of the early1.8 turbos were plastic (to save weight and cost) and failed at a pretty regular rate. This was driven by the same belt assembly that drives the camshaftsguess what if the water pump spline goes that causes the valves in the head to bang into each other (interference head) and then you need to replace the head as well as the water pump $3000-4000. Timing belt tensioner failures were big problems on the early 1.8s also causing the same effect. Computer software problems, suspension problems lead to a recall to have all 8 control arms replaced on the Passat and A4s. I know because my parents have a Passat and this was just fixed by a recall. Out of warranty/recall the control arms would cost about $3000 to fix.

My brothers 2002 Audi S4 had 2 transmission failures in the first year, several problems with the diverter valves on the twin turbo engine. His girlfriend has an A4 1.8 turbo, which has had all kinds of driving software issues, which havent been easily diagnosed. Most of these cars are drive by wire, meaning there is no accelerator cable. Throttle is all controlled by computer software.

These are just some issues from personal exp that I can think of off the top of my head. I am still a die-hard VW/Audi fan. The original GTI motor w/ hydraulic lifters (both the 1.8 and the later 2.0) are the best engines VW produced. Either the 8v or 16v head. They were the most robust and stout of the line especially the bottom ends, they could and do run forever. Again, not technologically advanced like the new super slick designs.

I have a 1991 GTI with 188,000 on the odometer and most of the major parts are still original. Its been a great car and I drive em very hard. My brother sold his S4 and bought a 96 GTI VR-6, which has given him very little trouble over the last 2 years. My parents 2001 Passat has been relatively trouble free, besides the control arm recall. Still some software issues that are annoying. Overall my opinion is that the older version holds up better over time and are much less costly to repair.

Hopefully the very latest generation of VAG products is much improved over the previous generation, or else VAG is going to be hurting even more than they are now.

H9

Jstas · June 2005

It's always neat to see how every single automotive thread at this forum turns into one brand bashing session after another. :rolleyes:

ND13 · June 2005

THERE'S AN **** FOR EVERY SEAT.

thehaens@cox.net · June 2005

Originally posted by ND13
THERE'S AN **** FOR EVERY SEAT.

So true....maybe there will be an **** for the seat of this 2000 F-150 Harley Edition........"retired" Polk Factory built demo truck...

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=4558640922&category=6219

heiney9 · June 2005

Originally posted by Jstas
It's always neat to see how every single automotive thread at this forum turns into one brand bashing session after another. :rolleyes:

Not sure what post you are referring too??? But if its mine I am certainly not bashing VW/Audi just stating my experiences. I am a die-hard VW/Audi owner and will continue to be despite some set backs and problems w/ the brand. If you arent talking about my post then disregard.

H9

bobman1235 · June 2005

I had a VW and it was a huge nightmare, but it had a lot of miles - I try my best not to judge the entire company based on my horrible experiences.

However, I've heard many mechanics say they would never buy one just due tot eh number of ridiculous repairs they've had to do on them. My father redoes upholstery for car dealers and he's pretty close with a lot of the mechanics, and even the VW mechanics say they would never buy one for themselves cuz they break so much

Maybe they're getting better, but their reputation for reliability is certainly not the best by any stretch.

They are fun as **** to drive though

heiney9 · June 2005

Originally posted by bobman1235
I had a VW and it was a huge nightmare, but it had a lot of miles - I try my best not to judge the entire company based on my horrible experiences.

However, I've heard many mechanics say they would never buy one just due tot eh number of ridiculous repairs they've had to do on them. My father redoes upholstery for car dealers and he's pretty close with a lot of the mechanics, and even the VW mechanics say they would never buy one for themselves cuz they break so much

Maybe they're getting better, but their reputation for reliability is certainly not the best by any stretch.

They are fun as **** to drive though

LOL..I have a friend who I met about 18 years ago when I owned my first VW. He repairs VW/Audi exclusively and hes the only one who works on my cars. I trust him even though he can be a bull **** sometimes. Weve talked many many hours about VW/Audi and automobiles in general and he says he wouldnt give $50 for a new VW. He is old school and prefers the older models. He races them on the weekends and says the new ones are so full of tech **** that they are impossible to keep running w/o deep pockets. Im sure this is true for most newer model cars as well. This is just one persons opinion, but he has seen first hand the different generations of models so hes probably more knowledgeable than most. Sometimes I just chuckle when he says this because hes used to the simpler days of VW/Audi.

H9

thehaens@cox.net · June 2005

Old School Audi Enthusiasts......

How about that quattro from the early 80's...somewhere in the neighborhood of 40k back then? It was a phenom of sorts, banned from about every rally race it entered. It was hitting 0-60 5 second times when most cars were lucky to see 7..

Check this race out..an 83 Quattro Vs. a 2000 Lancer Evo

http://www.car-videos.com/videos/testdrives.asp

It is a big file, but interesting to watch...

This thread has changed "gears" from BMW to VW/Audi

How about that new Shelby GT500 coming next year:eek:

heiney9 · June 2005

Originally posted by thehaens@cox.ne
Old School Audi Enthusiasts......

How about that quattro from the early 80's...somewhere in the neighborhood of 40k back then? It was a phenom of sorts, banned from about every rally race it entered. It was hitting 0-60 5 second times when most cars were lucky to see 7..

Check this race out..an 83 Quattro Vs. a 2000 Lancer Evo

http://www.car-videos.com/videos/testdrives.asp

It is a big file, but interesting to watch...

This thread has changed "gears" from BMW to VW/Audi

How about that new Shelby GT500 coming next year:eek:

I know the thread has gotten de-railed and apologize for continuing to contribute, so this is my last comment. I do remember the original Quattro. It was one of the cars I always wanted to own back then (wishful thinking for an 18 year old). That car was the bomb back then. Ill look at the link when I get home on a faster connection. Thanks

H9

thehaens@cox.net · June 2005

Originally posted by heiney9
I know the thread has gotten de-railed and apologize for continuing to contribute, H9

No worries......de-rail.... I am an Audi owner, so I don't mind the praise or lack there of. I am interested in what others have to say. I am on a lot of audi forums and no one ever has anything "really" bad to say. Go figure....HMMM I wonder if there is a Bose forum and they bash polks......might be fun to "crash" the party...

Scott

That race is awesome, I won't steal the ending, but you def. need a fast connection....30mb...

swerve · June 2005

Originally posted by thehaens@cox.ne
No worries......de-rail.... I am an Audi owner, so I don't mind the praise or lack there of. I am interested in what others have to say. I am on a lot of audi forums and no one ever has anything "really" bad to say. Go figure....HMMM I wonder if there is a Bose forum and they bash polks......might be fun to "crash" the party...

Scott

That race is awesome, I won't steal the ending, but you def. need a fast connection....30mb...

So are you suggesting starting a "Polk Imperial Army"?

If so please let me know and contact me.:D

The BMW M6

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